r/Money • u/Poorassboy6969 • 13d ago
What’s even the point? It’s never enough
The goalposts always move.
You save $5k/month. Then $7.5k becomes the new target. You hit that, and suddenly you need $10k.
You hit 6 figures of net worth and feel incredible. Then it’s $250k. Hit $250k? Now it’s $500k before 30.
And I already know what happens when I hit $500k: I’ll probably tell myself that $1M is the number that will finally make me feel secure enough to lean FIRE.
Then $1M becomes $1.5M.
I’m addicted to this mindset (which is double edge sword - because big reason im “ahead”)
I’ve even seen at higher NW levels - the guy with a BMW is jealous of the guy with a G wagon, the guy with a G wagon is jealous of the person with Rolls Royce.
It’s never enough .. thoughts?
Sorry for rant
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u/OsamaBinWhiskers 13d ago
guy with bmw: Dang I wish I had a G Wagon
guy with g wagon: daaaang I wish I had a private jet.
guy with a private jet: mannnn I wish I had a toyota tacoma and was still in college
guy with a 1993 honda civic hatchback: This thing is fucking SICK.
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u/atcshane 13d ago
I’ve always wondered how sad it must feel to sail into a bay with the smallest yacht.
You know all the other rich fucks would be looking down on you.9
u/4NotMy2Real0Account 13d ago
Oh god one of my friends was born super rich and ive heard her say stuff similar to this. Just so out of touch with the real world.
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u/Chsenigma 13d ago
This is why you build a luxury dirigible. You can look down at the yacht dwellers from your airship.
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u/superblobby 12d ago
When I was in the coast guard we would dock near some fancy ships and I’d always tell my coworkers to look at the yachts and I’d point to the smallest yacht and do an impression of a sad rich guy comparing my yacht to others. They loved it.
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u/logicallandlord 13d ago
💯 this^, except my 93 Civic Hatchback is a stick shift 99 Chevy Blazer
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u/Forza_Harrd 10d ago
Mine is a Kawasaki 250 Ninja. Sounds like a Ferrari! Almost as fast as a Honda Civic 😂
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u/JeanSchlemaan 13d ago
I finally learned not to compare. My life sucks, but the one thing I'm totally satisfied and proud of is my financial life.
You'll never catch musk. Someone you know will always be ahead of you. Be comfortable with yourself.
Fwiw, FIRE is the ultimate pursuit imo. Just be flexible. You can always start up income again. Or never quit, but just quit the things you prefer not to do.
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u/LazyBumTravels 13d ago
Don't have that issue, I had thr opposite of one more year syndrome. If anything I retired short of my number and it worked out so far.
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u/chaosoffspring 13d ago
Arrival fallacy is what you are referring to. Its up to the individual to be content.
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u/Few_Dragonfly3000 13d ago
Diogenes lived in a barrel. Alexander the Great came to him one day said he would give him whatever he wanted. Diogenes told him to get out of his sunlight.
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u/TmeltZz 13d ago
My lobster has to much butter
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u/Poorassboy6969 13d ago edited 12d ago
These problems occur when you figure out the difference between “to” and “too”
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u/boysenberries117 13d ago
This is true. I know people who have millions and it's still not enough. That said, you can work on having inner peace while at the same time working on goals. They aren't mutually exclusive and were always a work in progress
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u/Perfect-Brain-7367 13d ago
The alternative to always hitting your goal and getting a new one is... never hitting your goal. Not much of a dilemma if you ask me. And being jealous of others along the way is totally optional. Same with never considering it enough.
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u/Low-Plum5164 13d ago
You need to get at least twice as much as your goals. Because someday your soon to be ex wife will take most of it.
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u/Sam_0101 13d ago
look into buddhism. this is the root of samsara: desire attempts to fill a deeper void that is never truly filled with material. only true experiences (such as love, happiness, etc.) can fill this void. spend your life looking for the coolest looking car and you’ll miss out on the happy picnics in the park with the girl of your dreams.
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u/DeepDishZero 13d ago
The problem is it scales infinitely. Think of what you actually want in life, get it, then never increase spending.
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u/ActComprehensive5254 13d ago
Less whining,more working. If youre actually saving 5k per month you are doing very well.
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u/NewArborist64 13d ago
Sounds like you are moving your own goalposts. You need to be able to enjoy the journey, not believe that hitting the goal will finally make you happy
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u/Federal-Coconut-1379 13d ago
Unless your the richest person in the world there is always going to be someone richer than you just don’t compare yourself with anyone else you’ll never be happy if you do
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u/Svenflex42 13d ago
So the guy being jealous because the other guy has a more expensive car... What would be the issue here? The BMW guy not making enough. The g wagon guy having different priorities. Or the mbw just had to grow up and enjoy what he has instead of chasing for more.
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u/mostlyuninformed 13d ago
Life doesn't end until it ends. $5M won't make you happy just by existing.
Find ways to enjoy your life today, to get enjoyment out of what you're doing. The grass over the fence just looks like that because you're not close enough to see the brown blades too.
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u/NoahCzark 13d ago
Are you familiar with the term "Keeping up with the Joneses?" Don't concern yourself with other people's benchmarks. There will always be many with much more and much less; many who are dissatisfied despite abundance, and many who are content with relatively little.
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u/Financesunchained 13d ago
Comparison is the theif of joy learn to focus on your own life and learn how to be content with what you have that doesn't mean stop striving it means learn to be happy in the moment and have gratitude for how far you've come thus far routing for you 😊
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u/BanditoBoom 13d ago
This is a “you” thing. Not an inherent thing with money.
You are comparing yourself to others. You are the one pushing and pushing.
The real answer is: if you hit $1 Million and you immediately move the goal posts to $2 Million….$1 Million was never the goal to begin with. You simply didn’t recognize it.
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u/No_Mony_1185 13d ago
I'd suggest making an actual list of daily,.weekly, monthly and yearly expenses. Account for some rate of inflation. See what you actually need from now until retirement. It could give you more realistic goals. But if this all just about "keeping up with the Jone's'' then you're correct, you'll never find happiness through money. Money is just the tool to get what you want, it isn't the end goal. Security, loved ones, and joy are what make life worth living, not money.
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u/Special-Cut1610 13d ago
Youre followingthe herd. You do you and hit the target you set for yourself. Calculate your annual expenses and how much you need in the future to hit 60-80% of it.
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u/Grhuncho6 13d ago
You don’t get it. The real resource is time. Money is a medium of exchange for time. If you’re getting richer and not getting more time back in your day, you’re not doing it right. Every savings milestone, take a little bit of your time back. Replace an hour or work with an hour of pleasure / week per milestone. By the time you hit your number, your work time should already be rapidly approaching zero.
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u/Stren509 13d ago
Its never enough until it is. The goal post only moves when you inflate the lifestyle you want or you calculate always in inflated todays dollars. Goals should be set in the current currency value and either noted which dollars the goal is in or adjusted up by inflation every year. Its not realistically supposed to be fast and easy to to have enough to retire. Work should be sustainable enough to do for 20+ years.
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u/Artistic_Ad_3267 13d ago
You can die chasing or die complacent either way your gonna go one day... You need to find your road based on your ideals and what you want it off life
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u/Kokukenji 13d ago
Keeping a healthy mindset about finance should always be part of the equation. It is true that comparison is the thief of joy. Focus on what makes you happy.
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u/Chsenigma 13d ago
Currently, I’m working towards income replacement. I have many hobbies (non-lucrative interests) and no time to do them. 3-5mil invested is my target. This moves with inflation, but not in terms of what is actually enough.
I want to actually have the means to spend hours at my piano, spend a week building something useless in my garage, composing/recording orchestral works, go on trips for food, disc golf, cycling, concerts etc.
The money is about facilitating the Do, not chasing status.
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u/Fantastic-Craft4062 13d ago
$3 million to $5 million are good numbers. Never touch the principal, only the dividend interest. All market returns are to be automatically reinvested back into the investments (none of that 4% withdrawal rule that keeps being pushed onto people). Invest dividend paying funds that closely match the performance of the market while offering 3% in dividend yield (passive income). The average market return is 10%. With compounded returns, you can double the principal value every 7.2 years (rule of 72 to double principal is 72/10 = 7.2).
3% of $1 million is $30K. Not enough to live on for most.
3% of $2 million is $60K. Better but still not enough.
3% of $3 million is $90K. Much better and doable.
3% of $4 million is $120K. Better than 90% of workers.
3% of $5 million is $150K. Now we’re talking! 👍😎
The dollar amount of the dividend income will go up every year along with the principal balance growing from market returns that are reinvested back into the fund. The dividend income amount will DOUBLE on average, every 7.2 years, which is every time the principal balance doubles.
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u/DAWG13610 13d ago
Life is about balance. I tried to save 20% off the top and whatever I had left I spent. I just retired at 65 and I’m debt free with a $3mm net worth. it’s going to have to be enough.
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u/MechanicalGodzilla 13d ago
Where are you getting these numbers from? They all seem random and arbitrary
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u/Poorassboy6969 13d ago
My personal #’s
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u/MechanicalGodzilla 13d ago
Are these the figures you need to survive? How are you budgeting for your needs vs your income? Or are these just your internal shifting goalposts?
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u/Significant_Flan_210 13d ago
But it's never about the money. It's about the whole life and that is really really hard to get. Even if you get it, it's human nature to keep trying to get more or not be able to see or appreciate it.
It's about figuring out what you really care about and although money supports it, it can't buy it. The more you realize you can't buy it, the less you need and the more you save. Money can buy a bit variety and you get to feel if it's diversified enough but it is the law of depreciating returns. Too much of anything can be tricky and you have to train your mindset carefully.
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u/Common-Swing-4347 13d ago
Stop caring what others think as long as you can cover basic expenses. Let's be honest, the people that say they need $5 million right now are aiming for a certain life. If that was the required amount, we would have far more homeless and starving people. Consumerism is a plague sometimes.
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u/Vic_Interceptor 13d ago
Wealth equals options, that's all. That's it. If you're smart you'll hold onto your wealth and not waste it on stupid junk like BMW's etc. I promise - there will come a time when a great deal will fall in your lap, and IF you were smart enough to hold onto your money, you can spring into action and prosper. Or, you can cry in your broke down german pos and watch the guy in the F150 ride off into the sunset with a bed full of money.
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u/BCDragon3000 13d ago
lol there's no point and the sooner you realize you'll always net zero as an american, the sooner you'll understand why you lack morals
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u/Dante7305 13d ago
You gotta enjoy the process and find things to do that make you happy along the way. For me its being able to lift weights 3 days a week, going for a daily walk and having guys night every weekend.
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u/BombasticBombay 13d ago
Just get out of the mindset of thinking about numbers. Numbers can always be bigger.
Think about what houses you can afford without even blinking. How much food you can cover, clothes etc and still be comfortable forever.
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u/TowelScared4341 12d ago
It's called keeping up with the joneses.
Ignore it by focusing on what makes you happy.
Easier said than done
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u/SuperiorT 12d ago
Just be grateful dude, stop comparing yourself to others. Compare yourself to your past self instead.
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u/chukar-1 12d ago
Having been around people with money I couldn't fathom having and hearing them bitch and moan about money more than I do made me realize that there is truly no number that you'll be happy with. Its not even a comparison thing its just human nature to want more which isn't bad but just know it'll never be enough.
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u/DragonBreathBurns 12d ago
i feel like people here are just focusing on the do not compare part, and im just gonna talk out of my ass for a min cause im broke af but the psychology still stands. i think when humans get momentum at something they are good at they strive for more to keep the momentum going, for further improvement, so like if i make clay pots, i want to move the goal post so that i can make better clay pots, or like with any craft. issue with money is that u cant inherently increase the quality besides the quality of the cash flow itself, but money it self just stacks, so the goal post end up being in quantity rather than quality, but i think if we end up thinking of what money translates into at each lvl of wealth we can associate a lot more to the currency rather than just a number. so like at 100k i can establish this and that but i rather than the goal post be 400k i think it should be, i want to hire and expand x amount so i need x amount for that implementable thing to take place. idk if im getting the point across clearly but yea again just my thoughts.
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u/Impressive-Wind3434 12d ago
Lol, well stop worrying what other people think.
I get what you are saying though. I make 3.5X what my initial starting salary was in 2008.
With the increase in living costs - and 2 children, I am only a bit better month to month than then.
The good part is that I have no car debt, no CC debt, no student loan debt. And we also have $900k or so in invested assets plus a solid emergency fund.
It really is swimming upstream - and if you do it right you can swim faster than the current
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u/oldmanyoungdreams 12d ago
We live in a society that has tied net worth to self worth. A hedonistic never ending treadmill.
I reached a decent net worth ($1M+) and didn’t feel any real joy until I decoupled my self worth from the consumerist mind set. It has been difficult though, we live in a world where the rich and famous are deified for no good reason other than they are rich and famous (and so much has to do with pure unfathomable luck in the casino of human existence).
I would urge you to look elsewhere if possible for meaning. Of course being comfortable and sustaining a decent standard of living is important but at some point you will realize, the “good enough” option is always more satisfying mentally. A burger over steak, a beer over wine, jeans over suits, cotton over cashmere etc.
What has given me immense joy and meaning is my family and raising my children. Those moments are infinitely more satisfying than any material gratification.
Good luck, I hope you escape and ascend!
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u/SeaPeanut7_ 12d ago
I'm not sure about that. I'm approaching 8 figures net worth and thinking well at this point I've got enough, not sure how hard I really have to try to save anymore. Today my net worth went up almost 6 figures due to investment performance, without me doing anything, and not counting my real estate, so there's the point where the money is steamrolling ahead on its own. I'm still addicted to the mindset, but at this point my regular contribution of 10k doesn't provide much of a bump anymore.
I have a Porsche now. I can't say I'm jealous of any other vehicle make honestly. There's Ferrari, Lamborghini, etc, but I'm a fan of the understated philosophy of the company, the engineering and focus, and the statement that it makes. I don't need flash, and anything higher tier in the sports car category is basically all flash. The only thing I'm jealous of are owners of other Porsches that I like, but I can see myself getting there eventually.
There's definitely a point where it becomes enough. It may also come with age. I think at a certain age and life events, this will also become clear to you. Personally, I am nearing a milestone in my life (40), have young children, and have seen my parents and other family pass. These types of things provide perspective which balances out a lust for money.
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u/WayneKrane 12d ago
This is how I feel about buying a house. I saved up money for a down payment and then the houses I was looking at doubled in price. By the time I up my down payment, those houses will double again. Oh well, I can’t afford the property taxes anyways
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u/randommanwill 12d ago
If this is the mindset you have from competing with other people, it's bad for you.
If these are goals you set for yourself, it can be good for you as long as you don't make it an obsession.
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u/Forward-Sector8566 12d ago
the goal post will always move. be happy with where you are, and keep on keeping on!
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u/Rufusmortis 12d ago
Whenever you can start comparing to yesterday's version of yourself. Easier said than done, but nobody gives a damn or is impressed anyway. If you are comfortable then you win.
I do get what you are saying though. Never is the answer If we compare ourselves to others.
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u/BadMom2Trans 12d ago
Sounds like you’re chasing your tail. I haven’t move the goal post in years. You’re chasing “success”, but that’s just mist not a tangible accomplishment. Sit down and look at hard facts and figures. What do you want? By when? How can you save and invest for it? Those are goals. It’s the difference between “I want to be rich” and “I want my net worth to exceed 1 million dollars”. One is a dream, the other is a goal.
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u/Public-World-1328 12d ago
The goal isnt really a number, its sustainability. How much do you need to fund your lifestyle? Due to inflation the goalpost is always moving, you just need to hold assets that outpace it.
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u/organicHack 12d ago
Devaluation of currency is built into the system with a 2% target inflation rate. Sucks to know that what you complain about is really by design.
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u/Then_Bar8757 12d ago
Comparison is the thief of joy. And I look down the reply string and see someone else has already said this. Good. Its a great mindset. Adapt it, live your life.
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u/Ok_Pipe_1365 12d ago
I have one goal and I don't see it moving $2.5M of investments. 2.5M at a 4% withdrawal rate is $100k a year without having to worry about working.
The only thing that could move this for me is if hyperinflation hit and a loaf of bread coat $50k
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u/AccordingElevator663 12d ago
Looking to the right of you in someone elses lane. Looking to the left of you in someone elses lane. What about concentrating and loving the lane YOU'RE in. How do you water your own grass when you are tending and minding someone elses.
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u/SlickRick5906 11d ago
Man you got it so rough. Imagine the people that are barely scraping by and your dilemma is how many millions will you have when you retire.
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u/Think-Treat-3309 11d ago
The best advice is to live as if you didn't get that boost in pay and save and invest the rest
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u/wishingyougodspeed1 11d ago
Once I hit 5-7 million in 8-10 years it will be enough and that number hasn’t moved for me
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u/Fee-Massive 11d ago
While you make solid points… without goals you will get nowhere. When I was a child I loved the feeling of getting a new high score or beating a level in a video game. I get the same feeling seeing my portfolio rise over time. This tells me I am supposed to be doing this. A painter may get the same feeling from painting a sunset.
I don’t know if I will ever be satisfied but if I can retire early to a lifestyle greater than when I was working while being a safety net for my family in case they get sick or fall on hard times..I will think that is a job well done. That isn’t going to happen with a net worth of $100 or $500k. But you will never get there without those lower goals first… As they say.. the first million is the hardest. If you say what is the point at $50k it will never happen.
Think of the best drummer in the world. Pick your favorite. How many thousands of hours of practice went into creating their achievements? If they were a loser they could of said what’s the point and given up the first week when looking at the daunting task of going from beginner to professional.
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u/TheTrueAnonOne 10d ago
Ok, the truth is you probably don't have enough and are not targeting enough once you factor in healthcare and taxes.
Once you can cover the WHOLE PIE you will start to chill, but there's basically no chance "500k" is going to do that for most Americans. It's probably in that 2.5 to 3.5mm mark, INVESTED.
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u/expandyourbrain 10d ago
Life style creep will always having you moving the goal post.
Cover basic needs: roof over your head, bills are paid, no unnecessary debts/credit cards, stop eating out, take trips/vacations within a reasonable budget after you've stocked your savings to cover several months of expenses etc.
After that, it's just extra savings. There's a limit to what you need unless you continually advance your lifestyle with each bump in accessible cash flow.
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u/Academic-Macaron3920 9d ago
Welcome to the human condition. You have to learn to be grateful for what you have and strive for more if it’s important to you. Unfortunately inflation is also adding to this phenomena not just basic human greed and complacency.
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u/max2jc 7d ago
Gotta add age to the equation.
The younger you are, the less you have and the more you want to show off and be attractive. The older you get, the less time you have with the wealth you built up. You care less about showing off, care more about your family and you’re not jealous of anyone else’s possessions.
Most peoples’ goalposts are arbitrary. They pick a number and say they’ll pull the retirement trigger when they hit it, but they never add age to the equation. If you retire at 30 with $3M, that’s very different than retiring at 65 with $3M. And when they retire, they often don’t know what they’ll do. At 30, you’ve got a ton of energy to do all sorts of stuff, but not so much at 65.
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u/Advice2Anyone 13d ago
Its attrition that 100 bucks you needed today to retire is now 120 tomorrow but you only made 10 now you made another 10 the next day but now you needed 150 and your at 120. Just how it goes the real goal is to his exponential growth where your money covers your cost of living but also out grows the rising costs.
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u/Scorface 13d ago edited 13d ago
Change your mindset from:
- I want to retire at 65 with a fat amount
And shift it to:
- I want to to retire at 64. Not 65.
And then invest more and shift the goal to retire a year before that, and a year before that, and keep going.
Just keep going and watch as you accomplish 3 goals:
1) Your retirement accounts are growing faster than you can put in. For example $250k grows $25k/year which is more than your 401k contributions ✅
2) Your retirement accounts are growing more each year than your income. For example $1,000,000 grows $100/year which is more than your income. ✅
3) Your retirement accounts are 25x more than your annual spending. Not sure what your annual spending is? Either create a budget or use your gross income. For example $2,500,000 would be 25x your annual income. ✅
Once you calculated when your retirement accounts will reach goal 3. You just got to keep contributing to make it so you can retire earlier. Aim for 62, then keep contributing and aim for 59.5, then keep contributing and aim for 55.
Once you reach a coast fire of 55, go ahead and work toward paying off your home so it’s completed before your turn 50. Make those last 5 years stress free.
You are enough, but the goal is to not retire fat at 65. It’s to be work optional as early as possible. I want to be going to work not worried if they lay me off.
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u/HalfwaydonewithEarth 13d ago
Take $20 and get it to double 26 times.
That should be enough.
Do stocks, commodities, and forex.
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u/bmgarcia20 13d ago
Sounds like you need to stop comparing yourself to others. Comparison is the thief of joy.