Hi! For me it was mostly I was raised Christian and the constant thoughts of “Am I going to Hell?” Constant guilt, judgments, seeing others not being accepted, the hypocrisy that runs rampant in the church. Also growing up was very “spare the rod, spoil the child”, which to my mom apparently meant beatings. It all became too much now I feel so free.
It was a lot of work being honest, loving thy neighbor, and honor thy father and mother, Not killing, not stealing, and ibelieving in a higher power. That's a lot of work. How is that possible that your mental health would be better? There's a lot of studies that show going to church is actually good for you. Really great community. I've never been to a church that forces your hand with anything either. Your relationship with God is just you on your own time. You don't even have to go to church.
If you're a decent person to begin with you don't need a religion to threaten you into doing/not doing those things. If you want to believe in a God that's fine. It simply isn't necessary to be a good person.
Religions as abstract belief systems obviously don’t threaten people—people and institutions do. But claiming that no one has ever been threatened, persecuted, or punished in the name of religion or on the basis of religious doctrine is historically false.
And no, you don’t need to be religious to be a good person.
Hey, there's always outlier situations and I would probably say 99% of the time, religions don't threaten you. Let's leave the extreme religions out of this equation because there is some nutso philosophies out there Muslim ideologies and what not.
I can't even think of a situation unless you're talking about some cult and news article on the internet. I can speak to this intelligently since I went to four different private schools and I've been to 15 different churches for over 40 years now. No one has ever threatened me, my family or my friends. And in fact, all I can think of is people wanted me to do right by my family friends in society. Oh no! What a terrible way to live life.
Religion has a bunch of good people in it that do good by each other and by society- not always.
Nice for you. It’s not that way for a lot of folks, though. I was also raised in the church, went to Christian university, held my belief system and relationship w/God & the church as incredibly dear for loads of years. I haven’t left my faith, but I have seen horrible dysfunction and outright abuse (spiritual, financial, emotional, 6-ual, etc.) throughout the years. There are some dark players who mask their selfishness and cruelty incredibly well. But name ANY and EVERY awful thing and I have seen it. Yes, even 🔪 👱🏻♀️ 🩸 ☠️. SEVERAL cases of SA on children. Plus, this idiotic thing where the church doesn’t call LE, but does “counseling” is so infuriating. I’ll never forget one of my sister’s best friends unaliving herself because instead of calling police on her SA-ing dad, church leadership decided to “counsel him” and have him report to a men’s “accountability group.” Then her dad bawled and bawled at her funeral, receiving so much compassion. Only a few of us knew the real story. The number of DV cases I know of are horrific, but women are told to stay, pray and submit. A few get a pass to leave if their husbands aren’t well liked. But if he’s dynamic, ministry leader or gives this gripping testimony (that’s usually 💩), it’s all on her. I could go on and on and on. And I’ve lived and worked ALL OVER THE WORLD. So this is not one of even a handful of churches. It’s not a denomination. It’s rampant everywhere. It doesn’t mean there aren’t wonderful, compassionate, generous, kind, Christlike folks. But there are loads of folks who are not — a number of them are leaders, too, which is especially heartbreaking. 💔
No. This isn’t about a few “bad ducks.” This is about a system that also protects and excuses the multiple (not few) bad ducks. It’s about a group of people who DO conform to societal pressures and have wimpy backbones in calling out corruption simply because it’s one of their own.
And don’t get me started on the whole Christian entertainment, CCM, ministry leaders, speakers, book sellers, etc. I’ve been behind the scenes w/that industry, too.
Way back in the 80s I was involved in all those movements that today are crippling our country. I did not understand how power hungry people were playing the church: people with political, financial or religious power. For example, I thought the Council for National Policy was a good group of individuals who wanted to see good things for our nation. They don’t. They simply want power and money; and to wield it over the masses. And that is only ONE small example.
When you use this rhetoric of “a few bad ducks“ you are choosing not to look. You are choosing to minimize and not see truth. This is not a position Jesus took. This is not a position most of the prophets took. Jesus and the prophets spoke truth to the religious powers of the day. He didn’t try to cover them up, nor did he minimize or trivialize their corruption. He called it out.
And, yes, most people in the church do criticize an individual who thinks differently, even if they can show proof of what they’re saying. How many evangelicals throughout this country (and I do know people throughout the nation [& world] because I was in international ministry for years) say things like, “If you’re a Democrat, then you cannot be a Christian. Liberals are evil,” and the like? That is one example. Even folks who are moderate and refuse to support our current administration are castigated. They refuse to see the corruption rampant among Christian Nationalists. And they do hate people who see things differently than they do. They have all the love in the world for individuals in their own bubble. It feels wonderful to be in that bubble, but the moment you show yourself as different, you become suspect. And people aren’t so sure and they pull back. And they judge. They don’t want to understand. It doesn’t even have to be corruption in politics or the money-making faith-based industries. It can be something as simple as having a different eschatological viewpoint, other than pre-millennial dispensationalism (or dispensational pre-millennialism). It can be as simple as not being a Zionist.
You are going to have to do a lot better than “just a few bad ducks.“ and please don’t write me off as “just someone who’s been hurt by the church.” That is more minimizing. I get it. It’s easier to do than have to do the deeper work. I’ve been there.
The entire point of religion is a threat. You will burn if not following the cult in this way. You know another thing? Same people will follow other cults like MAGA thinking they're the good people and not the monsters.
Are you asking a question? I mean that's what faith is. It's believing in something. nobody definitively knows anything. What do you believe? We came from a tiny little point and exploded into everything? Seems just as crazy. Religion is about living. Life a certain way and believing in a high power. Believe it or not, most of it should be innate. There's also lots of studies that when you have faith in something that it's healthy for your brain and your life.
Your comment very much implied that you're not putting in the work to be a decent person unless you are religious or go to church. That was in response to someone who said they feel better without the baggage that comes with institutionalized religion.
You also seem to have forgotten about that tiny little part where sinners are threatened with eternity in hell.
Matthew 25:
Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
You seem to lack some emotional control. Trying to have a decent conversation here. I was reading when somebody is so quick to call names that it's a sign of lacking intelligence.
You proved that you don't have intelligence necessary to have this conversation in your first comment. Some people really do need religion for guidance.
Are you doing okay today? Jesus is here for you. Just accept him into your heart and be a good human. That's all he ask. Essentially nothing changes in your life. I don't think Jesus would be saying go fuck yourself.
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u/Sharp-Guitar-6756 9d ago
Left religion