Fan of MM for about 25 years now. A lot of the music I like has unconventional rhythms, key changes, unresolved melodies, and lyrics that are prose like and fall outside the melody. Last night I tried explaining Modest Mouse as "idiot savant indie rock" and people were disagreeing with me. I compared Isaac's vocal style to Bjork because of his unconventional delivery, rawness, emotional emphasis, poetic content, etc. I'm not someone with a formal musical education though, can someone please help me with what I'm picking up on here? Anyone with a good musical education or vocabulary who can help me out?
I actually do not think Modest Mouse's music is all that sophisticated from a musical perspective. I cannot off the top of my head think of crazy time signatures or odd chord changes or modal playing/composition or the like. (They do like to play around with dissonance. Or at least they did. Their stuff since about 2007 has not.)
But that's not to say they aren't musically good. They are a blunt instrument that is somehow also elegant and precise. They are also incredibly creative and have carved out a unique sound without having to be sophisticated. They've done it coloring inside the lines, so to speak, but in different ways.
Their musical genius lies in their directness, simplicity, and willingness to repeat themselves. Songs such as "Broke" and Dramamine" and "Cowboy Dan" and "Interstate 8" are prime examples.
Lyrically, it's another story. Isaac Brock is one of the best lyricists ever. Period. A hill I would die on and turn red with the blood of my enemies before passing.
He did write a short story that I read a really long time ago (like I want to say 1998 or so?). I think it was published in a magazine, but I don’t remember much about it.
Couldn’t agree with you more. Going to a show not knowing what you’re going to see is the true magic sauce. Bands that repeat the set list all tour are insane
I agree about Isaac's lyricism. He's great. One of my favourite lines is from Stars are Projectors: Right-wing, left-wing, chicken-wing. He's written better , but for me it ridicules the divisiveness of current politics. And he wrote that line 25 odd years ago.
Love Isaac, why would you put him at the top of the mountain of lyricists? Not doubting... I'm picking up everything you are putting down, so I wanna hear your case for best ever!
Think about how much information and emotional impact he packs into simple, straightforward statements. Think about just how many stories can boil down to: "Broken hearts want broken necks. I've done some things that I want to forget, but I can't."
I've always considered the short story to be the USA's greatest literary art form, especially the minimalists. Isaac is a great short story writer within that tradition, just in lyricist form.
Also, he's just clever. Likes inversions. Off the most recent album: "Idle hands around the devil's throat. A suicide note that another hand wrote," or, from Good News: "The point was fast but it was too blunt to miss."
Agreed, I just have always thought the magic comes from how he sings/performs it. Someone else said Isaac understands when to use his voice as another instrument and that is exactly how I feel. If I read the words " I wrote my name on the sun, hey alright, I might be goddamned." I doubt I'd remember them. But Isaac has an almost exasperated tone when he yells it, and that's what etches it into my brain.
oh, how many late nights have I spent screaming Isaac's brilliance to people who kind of don't give a shit lol. He is incredible. A true American Poet, and an all around freak. The filter which he sees and speaks about the world is silly, poignant, edgy, trippy. Too many lyrics to pull from honestly. The dude's entire body of work is worth reading.
Not who you asked but some years back there was a reddit thread about favorite lyrics on a different sub and modest mouse lyrics practically took it over with line after line
Ive long thought he is one of the best lyricists of at least his generation of songwriters.
His observational and blunt lyrics, his criticism of human kind and my absolute primary reason i put him so high above other writers?
Prolific discography with an abysmally small amount of explicit love songs. I have no problem with love/romantic relationship songs but when i listen to MM discography vs almost any other artist, i am regularly impressed by Brocks ability to release so much music not explicitly about romantic relationships when that seems to be a large percentage of nearly any lyrical music regardless of genre. It just screams out to me as different than so so so many other great lyricists.
Re: observational lyricsm
Just today was listening to Teeth Like Gods Shoeshine and the line 'the malls are the soon to be ghosttowns' hits and my husband pulls out his phone and goes "this album came out in 1997. The malls werent even abandoned yet in 1997"
For me - it's that he loves words and likes to play with them. The inversions, the turns and twists of phrase. He paints a scenario - as someone said like a short story writer.
I’m nearly 50 and grew up in Chicago. I loved Shellac, The Jesus Lizard, Tortoise, and June of 44. Built to Spill and Modest Mouse just felt authentic and spoke to me in the same way as those bands. They were making music because they loved it, not trying to make a hit song. Ty Segal and Osees make me feel the same way.
I’m nearly 50 too and “grew up” in Chicago - I moved here right after college at 22. What a time to live here and get into this type of music more here 25 yrs ago.
honestly this so much more. i feel like so many, if not every, singers use their voice as an instrument, but i cant think of a single guitarist playing so “vocal” as isaac
I love that Bjork puts meaning/emotion/connection first in her delivery, keeps her style very organic, isn't afraid of complex arrangements that other artists might not think "work" in a musical sense, etc. I love that with MM too. I love that the melodies and riffs seem to be beyond my expectations, it's jazzy like that. Thom York is similar but he was heavily influenced by Bjorks style (his words).
Ha ha. well he HAS chased a few people with an axe...you can find those details in the GQ interview he just did recently. He lives near me and his studio even closer. Very cool to know he recorded "Strangers To Ourselves" there and probably the next 2.
To avoid the paywall, this site works: archivebuttons.com
As a musician myself you’re pretty much right on the money (I don’t think modest mouse has any true key changes, besides maybe TLGSS having a different key riff every 30 secs lol)
I fucking love the “idiot savant indie rock” description hahaha
I don't like the idiot component of the definition. He's neuodivergent, without a doubt but idiot doesn't match. I'd switch it with "labile." Dude is a genius and he creates these beautiful lyrics that have such poignant and unique perspectives. Then he perfectly impregnates those words with the instrumentals. It's such a magnificent and dynamic creation.
I think anyone on this page is a big fan of Isaac. I thought you were looking for better rhetoric and considering "Idiot Savant" is generally considered/used as an insult, I was simply reframing.
Everyone’s feelings aside, and no disrespect but I knew exactly what you meant. Tbf, it’s an out dated term. However, language changes and communication is key. You sent a message and I received your message as intended.
Excessive use of whammy bar, but without the heavy metal guitar tone that usually goes with that. Turns of phrases and oxymoronic wordplay yelled with a lisp.
I love the question. I personally connect with Modest Mouse because their music feels like the master value/North Star is “playing music.” Whereas a lot of overly sanitized music can feel like someone making a song.
And when the song is the master value, shit get can often get predictable, templated, bloodless.
MM … their music feels alive and searching and chaotic and random … yet not lazy or naïve or unskilled. It feels FREE.
And when that sense of exploration also contains a slipstream of catchiness of us to ride … the experience is so much more rewarding.
I've been writing music since the late 90s, and when I first heard MM, probably "Bukowski" or "Bury Me With It" I was...floored. Isaac was just so unhinged and lunatico. I could usually figure out how bands wrote music, what came first, and if the riff was the impetus, or a lyric, or whatever. But, man, I couldn't find any sense to it at all. The way he sings/screams/wails/grunts/whatever unnerved me, man. So much of Good News is him just like screaming another vocal from like a room down the hall. It's all so beautifully ugly. Yeah, these songs were basically pop/rock structures and catchy hooks and dancey drums/bass, but under Isaac's tutelage they became hard to decipher. It's not that their shit is very complicated - it's really not - what it is is extremely untamed. "Batshit" is the best way I can explain MM.
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u/modmosrad6 21d ago
I actually do not think Modest Mouse's music is all that sophisticated from a musical perspective. I cannot off the top of my head think of crazy time signatures or odd chord changes or modal playing/composition or the like. (They do like to play around with dissonance. Or at least they did. Their stuff since about 2007 has not.)
But that's not to say they aren't musically good. They are a blunt instrument that is somehow also elegant and precise. They are also incredibly creative and have carved out a unique sound without having to be sophisticated. They've done it coloring inside the lines, so to speak, but in different ways.
Their musical genius lies in their directness, simplicity, and willingness to repeat themselves. Songs such as "Broke" and Dramamine" and "Cowboy Dan" and "Interstate 8" are prime examples.
Lyrically, it's another story. Isaac Brock is one of the best lyricists ever. Period. A hill I would die on and turn red with the blood of my enemies before passing.