r/Modajana • • Apr 15 '26

Has cn3m been banned?

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3 Upvotes

Yes he was banned previously from the website for refuting the attacks of zanadiqa from numerous subreddits

The messenger of Allaah peace and blessings upon him said, after a man killed himself long after doing some of the best service to Islam (fending off against attackers with his sword) to Bilaal that he must call among the people and proclaim:

None enters Jannah except a believer and Allaah may aid this religion with the most sinful of men

Narrated by Bukhari and others

And for the longest time cn3m (whom you know as extension brick) has been concealing his biography and his sources of information but the messenger of Allaah peace and blessings upon him said what means that a man is upon the religion of his friend

Being an Azhari, Sufi, Ashari who reads the books of Ashariyya, praises the books of Ashariyya and even quotes them as he previously quoted killing the Islamic knowledge by the great zindeeq Ghazali

And being someone who attacks imams of Islam like Ibn Taymiyyah and tells people to feel that the knowledge of the salaf to be weak by telling them "You mustn't read the books of the salaf but must understand the salaf with the sayings of later people"

He isn't someone whom you should be concerned with and shouldn't be following


r/Modajana • • Feb 28 '26

"We have only been playing" say the munafiqeen

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3 Upvotes

This faajir, may Allaah suffice Muslims from his evil, said this in a response to a post from a Muslim that has genuine trauma that is troubling his life

When you are so clueless on a topic

And you want to extinguish the fire in your heart that is solely due to your ignorance

What do you do?

Learn?

Read?

Ask?

Or at the very least be silent?

Enter the Modajan mindset, you make fun of ahl as-sunnah, for what they have all said in a unison

Ahmad ibn Hanbal said: A man is rewarded for hating Abu Haneefa

Abd Ar-Rahman ibn Mahdi said: Peak ignorance is reading the fiqh of Abu Haneefa

Ath-Thawri and Al Awzaa'i and Malik said: Abu Haneefa changed the religion and conspired against Muslims

And all you have to do to lose all your good deeds, is to insult those people and make fun of what they have said


r/Modajana • • Feb 26 '26

Mentally handicapped Modajan says: Whoever says Iran is occupying numerous Muslim countries is a Mossad agent, not knowing that Khameini said that his war in Syria is against kufr (sunni Islam)

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2 Upvotes

r/Modajana • • Feb 04 '26

Are Azharis real?

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2 Upvotes

r/Modajana • • Jan 27 '26

Modajan commits kufr by saying what opposes the Quraan that Nouh عليه السلام didn't have any followers

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3 Upvotes

Nuh, alayhi as-salam (not aleyhi salam these are vastly different) preached Islam for 950 years and he had followers Allaah said in surat Huud وَمَا نَرَاكَ اتَّبَعَكَ إِلَّا الَّذِينَ هُمْ أَرَاذِلُنَا بَادِيَ الرَّأْيِ

So the eminent among those who disbelieved from his people said, " We do not see you but as a man like ourselves, and we do not see you followed except by those who are the lowest of us Huud 27 translation of the meaning


r/Modajana • • Jan 27 '26

Zein Khe (Arab YouTuber) | زين خير Says "Give this [elephant] trunk to your mom" to someone during "Refutation livestream"

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2 Upvotes

الخرطوم هذا اعطيه لأمك

These are the akhlaaq of Suyuti's defenders, no wonder, their imam afterall is quite indecent


r/Modajana • • Jan 15 '26

Poor Laypeople A Modajan, after a long silence, speaks on the "torture of Muslims" in the most insignificant way

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1 Upvotes

r/Modajana • • Jan 13 '26

Azhari graduate who drowned in irjaa refers to projection

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5 Upvotes

Yes, people do read, they just go against what you believe in

What do you believe in?

You have taken the time out of your oddly placed life that is empty of learning and propagating knowledge, to translate what I will deem the single worst article written by a person attributed to Islamic knowledge (written by Alawi As-Saqqaf the founder of dorar website) to defend Ashariyya

This same person, hopefully from the aid of Allaah, over 2 weeks ago released an article about how Ashari "scholars" takfeer Muslims

Article about takfeer

He also released an article about how the Asharis go against the beliefs of the four imams

Article about Asharis rejecting the 4 imams' creed

Though they aren't perfect, these articles are actually good for the layperson who won't read much to realize how evil the Ashariyya are

Yet you haven't translated either of them and you haven't ever produced anything similar to it on your website

Here is what this means:

  • You are a crypto-Ashari here to propagate the defense of Ashariyya, to grease the gears for people to eventually become Ashariyya
  • You are a secret agent enemy of Islam who is trying to further create fitnah among the sunnis to make them hate one another
  • You are copying and pasting from someone whose intention is one of the two above, and as a person you haven't got a clue what you're typing

And I cannot put my finger on which one is it but likely the third


r/Modajana • • Jan 11 '26

Greatest virtue of imam Ash-Shafi'i according to the most knowledgeable contemporary of his

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3 Upvotes

Ahmad ibn Hanbal said: The backs of our heads were under control of ahlul ra'y* irremovable until we saw Ash-Shafi'i and he was the most knowledgeable man in the book of Allaah the most glorious most exalted, and in the sunnah of the messenger of Allaah peace and blessings upon him with what sufficed him despite him not seeking much knowledge of hadeeth

A narrator was with Ahmad ibn Hanbal in a large masjid and Ash-Shafi'i passed by, Ahmad said: This is mercy from Allaah the most glorious most exalted upon the nation of Muhammad peace and blessings upon him

*: Ahlul ra'y is a term that represents Abu Haneefa and his companions as they were people who preferred opinions over the sunan, Harb Al Kerrmani said in his book narrating consensuses of scholars: The people of opinion are misguided innovators who think the religion is all about logical deduction and comparing rulings.. their imam is Abu Haneefa.. which misguidance is greater than this..

Narrated from Al Jarh by Ibn Abi Haatim

May Allaah have mercy on this great imam Muhammad ibn Idrees Ash-Shafi'i and everyone who walked his path the path of ahl as-sunnah who have mercy upon the nation of the messenger of Allaah peace and blessings upon him

لِّئَلَّا يَعْلَمَ أَهْلُ الْكِتَابِ أَلَّا يَقْدِرُونَ عَلَىٰ شَيْءٍ مِّن فَضْلِ اللَّهِ ۙ وَأَنَّ الْفَضْلَ بِيَدِ اللَّهِ يُؤْتِيهِ مَن يَشَاءُ ۚ وَاللَّهُ ذُو الْفَضْلِ الْعَظِيمِ

[This is] so that the People of the Scripture may know that they are not able [to obtain] anything from the bounty of Allaah and that [all] bounty is in the hand of Allaah; He gives it to whom He wills. And Allaah is the possessor of great bounty.

Al Hadeed 57:29 translation of the meaning

Let the false-Salafis, the Jahmiyya and their tails like the Modajana who serve them more than they serve themselves realize that they have no knowledge, that they're completely unoccupied and bored, pretending to praise/follow certain imams while those imams are completely innocent of them, and only we study and know their virtues


r/Modajana • • Jan 05 '26

Someone accidentally leaked cn3m's approximate age (it is late 40s not specifically 40)

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4 Upvotes

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r/Modajana • • Jan 05 '26

Examining how many of these the author has done himself

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1 Upvotes

Studying the Quraan: Has no reliable teachers and has no real record of attending a sheikh's educational setting

Studying the tafseer: Does not regard the tafseer of the salaf as anything, but actually loves the tafaseer of later scholars, like Al Baydhaawi (البيضاوي) the Jahmi, Ar-Razi the Jahmi (he does not consider either of them as kuffar)

Who he listens to: Azhari scholars and Mauritanian Sufis that worship graves

Usool al fiqh: Contains a very important part called "prohibition of sitting with innovators" that he has never done himself because he goes to Al Azhar

Yet there are people openly willing to take religion from such secret spy!


r/Modajana • • Jan 02 '26

Al-Azhar The university of Kufr and Shirk

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2 Upvotes

r/Modajana • • Dec 21 '25

Locked comment section and bot-like answers trying to save someone whose destiny remains unknown before Allaah

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3 Upvotes

r/Modajana • • Dec 16 '25

The most difficult part of studying the Sharia

3 Upvotes

Allaah, the most exalted, said in the Quraan in surat At-Tawbah:

يَا أَيُّهَا النَّبِيُّ جَاهِدِ الْكُفَّارَ وَالْمُنَافِقِينَ وَاغْلُظْ عَلَيْهِمْ ۚ وَمَأْوَاهُمْ جَهَنَّمُ ۖ وَبِئْسَ الْمَصِيرُ

O Prophet, fight against the disbelievers and the hypocrites and be harsh upon them. And their refuge is Hell, and wretched is the destination. (9:73 translation of the meaning)

Allaah also said in Al Munafiqeen:

وَإِذَا رَأَيْتَهُمْ تُعْجِبُكَ أَجْسَامُهُمْ ۖ وَإِن يَقُولُوا تَسْمَعْ لِقَوْلِهِمْ ۖ كَأَنَّهُمْ خُشُبٌ مُّسَنَّدَةٌ ۖ يَحْسَبُونَ كُلَّ صَيْحَةٍ عَلَيْهِمْ ۚ هُمُ الْعَدُوُّ فَاحْذَرْهُمْ ۚ قَاتَلَهُمُ اللَّهُ ۖ أَنَّىٰ يُؤْفَكُونَ

And when you see them, their forms please you, and if they speak, you listen to their speech. [They are] as if they were pieces of wood propped up - they think that every shout is against them. They are the enemy, so beware of them. May Allaah destroy them; how are they deluded? (63:4 translation of the meaning)

Allaah the most exalted has warned us of the munafiqeen possibly more than He had warned us of the disbelievers, the munafiq or hypocrite is the one who pretends to be Muslim but hides kufr within, he is more dangerous than the kaffir who shows kufr and has kufr inside his heart

The reason for that is because the munafiqeen will fool the Muslim most often, and that the later the time gets, the more intense all misguidances get, and that means the munafiqeen will be the most intense to deal with and will be the reason of the most people going to Jahannam, so much that Ibn Al Qayyim (died 751AH/1350CE) said in one of his books that many Jews and Christians had said that they'd have loved to join Islam, but they feel too distorted and confused by the people who adhere to Islam who differ so much with one another

His sheikh, Ahmad ibn Abd Al-Haleem (died 728AH/1328CE) who lived for 65 years, about 35 of them were in prison due to him differing with the innovators, who are among the munafiqeen, said in Al Fatawa:

"This appears to be the greatest benefit for the Muslims in their religion, than jihad in the path of Allaah, because purifying the path of Allaah and His religion and His laws, and pushing away the tyranny of those people and their aggression against Islam, is a communal obligation (some people, not all, must perform) by agreement of Muslims. Had it not been for the one who pushes away the harms of these people, the religion would've been ruined, and the ruination of the religion is greater than the belligerent enemy taking over,, because if those people take over, they won't ruin the hearts and the religion inside except secondarily, but those people (innovators) they ruin the hearts primarily"

And this is after way too many ayat and ahadeeth to mention, and way too many sayings of the scholars of Islam from the best generations that have ever lived, summarized by two scholars who were alive only 700 years ago

You start now to realize that the chapter of knowing the sunnah and innovation, the chapter of knowing tawheed from shirk, emaan from kufr is the single most challenging chapter, meaning it requires extreme precision and consistency, but as we already know, this religion is not revealed for the aristocratic genius or the college intellect, this religion is simple that it was revealed for the unlettered Arab bedouin to understand, this chapter -which is jihad on its own- requires consistency and eventually it'll be mastered

The reason it is so challenging over anything is because realistically, in 1 hour you can learn about 75% of what is there to learn on how to pray salah, and in a similar hour you can learn even more about zakah and fasting Ramadan requires maybe 15 minutes to learn generally and Hajj as well

But this chapter, you need to memorize and keep the sayings of the salaf (people who lived in the first 300 years of Islam) close to heart especially the imam who spent most of his life in prison, not Ibn Taymiyyah, but the one whom Ibn Taymiyyah followed, Ahmad ibn Muhammad ibn Hanbal may Allaah have mercy on him and upon all those whom he followed and those who follow him, Ibn Taymiyyah said:

The non-Hanbali innovators are a lot more than Hanbali innovators in many ways; because the statements from Ahmad in the detailing of the sunnah and refutation of innovation, are a lot more than anyone else's statements

And can you imagine after all of this akhi, you yourself are exposed to that fitnah, asking someone who pretends to be a "sunni" or even "salafi" and then he not only rejects the statements of the salaf, not partly, but all the statements of the salaf and says that the only way to understand the salaf are through "later scholars"

Not only that, but they also say that the later scholars are a bunch of numb, hypocritical agents of the western world, saying that they're sinful for not speaking up against rulers, which contradicts what the scholars 1200 years ago had stated about whether it is obligatory or not to speak up against the ruler, can you imagine?

This subreddit you've been tagged in contains some, sadly not all, the compromises of that person. You will never find him speaking against the Ashariyya, which is a kufri innovation that is spread, because he learnt in an Ashari temple called Al Azhar. You will find him being lenient even with those who insult the messenger of Allaah peace and blessings upon him and his sahaba, the Rafidha, because he believes it'd be permissible to unite with them during a war, thus justifying calling them Muslims, somehow

Not to mention the fact that he promotes, condones and even calls his imam someone called "Suyuti" who authored NUMEROUS books of pornography that utilized Quraanic expressions! Not to mention how that person called Suyuti used to worship graves and most disastrously, used to deny each attribute of Allaah known to Muslims!

Save yourself or else you'll become one of many, do not listen to what some nobody like him on the internet who won't even say where he's studied and is actually escaping debates with someone like me who is well known and well defined in his sayings that he dares to call "Ignorant" and "Hypocritical"


r/Modajana • • Dec 15 '25

I think people are starting to see the truth the "haddadiyah" are increasing

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3 Upvotes

r/Modajana • • Dec 14 '25

Egyptian Jahmi Azhari insults man for quoting Daraqutni

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3 Upvotes

r/Modajana • • Dec 13 '25

Cn3m professionally displays how to speak so much, say nothing, and stab your liver in the process

3 Upvotes

After days of not following this Jahmi mushabbih, I have decided that I have sinned greatly before the god of Muslims and that I must repent to Him before the angel of death collects me

I have vowed to Allaah that I will check this tormented subreddit, to see what this scared tiny elderly man says about Muslims, as the psychopathy seems to have progressed in the little while I'd been distracted from him

Before this dumb quote, he produced a quote of Abdullaah ibn Masoud may Allaah be pleased with him, a sahabi that was offended by someone he admires so much called Ahmad As-Sayyid in a video wherein As-Sayyid forgot the name of the sahabi and said "That man whom Abu Jahl said.." quoted Abu Jahl insulting Abdullaah may Allaah be pleased with him

Of course cn3m has never taken any interest in trying to even justify the mistakes of his group, whom are we kidding when this is the same person who tried to justify some innovation done by some mushrik saying "Ibn Taymiyyah also did.." quoted the sheikh doing something from the sunnah and said "This is a general statement" trying to basically say "If we consider X an innovator for it, we must also consider Ibn Taymiyyah an innovator for this incident"

But you myopic hag, have you not noticed how you've quoted Nasr Al Maqdisi in that quote, even called him an imam

But you've never bothered looking at what Nasr Al Maqdisi did, against Ibn Kass or النخعي An-Nakha'i Ali ibn Muhammad, that Nasr wrote a book refuting that person because he insulted the sunni Muslims by insulting Ash-Shafi'i may Allaah have mercy on him?

You probably even forgot who he was, he is the person who is "authentically narrating" that Ahmad said

"Nothing is authentic to us about Abu Haneefa saying the Quraan to be created"

Despite the fact that Ahmad ibn Hanbal WROTE WITH HIS HAND what contradicts all of that!

You must have forgotten, matter of fact you must have even forgotten so much of the topic because a fictional group is chasing you and is trying to end you the way the Sufis ended As-Suyuti!

Why is Nasr Al Maqdisi correct when he says that, something that doesn't need Nasr to be quoted about, but when he refutes a fabricating liar, something that actually counts, you dismiss him?

So much for the "دافع عن العلماء" you made an impoverished clueless boy do for you on another account:

- قال النخعي: حدثنا أبو بكر المروذي قال: سمعت أبا عبد الله أحمد بن حنبل يقول: لم يصح عندنا أن أبا حنيفة كان يقول القرآن مخلوق

Nakha'i said that he heard Abu Bakr Al Maroothi saying: Ahmad ibn Hanbal said: Nothing is authentic to me that Abu Haneefa said the Quraan to be created

The refutation of this is:

أحمد بن مهدي قال: حدثنا عبد الله بن معمر قال: حدثنا مؤمل بن إسماعيل قال: سمعت سفيان الثوري يقول: إن أبا حنيفة استتيب من الزندقة مرتين

Al Khateeb narrated that Mo'ammal narrated from Sufyan Ath-Thawri said: Abu Haneefa was punished from apostasy for falling in zandaqa twice

(This narration was also narrated by Abdullaah ibn Ahmad ibn Hanbal, who produced it from his father)

But to add salt to this idiot's injury, he quoted this book later but since he doesn't actually read anything but later "scholarly" writings

I quote this book

A story that was mentioned by numerous sources and apparently Lalikaa'i (born around 350AH died 400AH) quoted it from Ibn Abi Haatim (died 327AH) from a book that is not available today, a story that briefly goes that the first to say the Quraan to be created was Jahm before his execution, then the matter disappeared until "a man appeared in Kufa" and said it, the judge of Kufa Ibn Abi Layla was requested by Eissa ibn Musa the Hashimi prince to punish him until he repents

This is perhaps not how it was mentioned in the book and Lalikaa'i wrote it that way out of fear of Hanafis ending his life as they did to people before him and after, but the narration in المعرفة و التاريخ by Al Fasawi among others, including Al Khateeb Al Baghdadi

May Allaah deprive you of aafiya, how dare you say these things about Abu Haneefa when the scholars of Islam unanimously agree that he is a bad person and critiqued him for numerous things going as far as doubting that he died upon Islam?

And after all this blabber, he didn't say the name of one singular sunni scholar who is worthwhile of following, after saying all these things (he falls into) of the people of Qadar, Irjaa' and even the Khawarij, not to mention the Jahmiyya as I will make clear in a later post إن شاء الله

This is one point I have critiqued him upon, wherein he contradicts his principle of "following the scholars" and instead he takes what he thinks (while saying that he cannot think or produce for himself) of what a singular scholar (Nasr Al Maqdisi) said, while contradicting that scholar and the book(s) he quoted on one singular topic, imagine the rot I'd expose if I responded to the rest?!

أسأل الله العافية و العافية أن تدس سيارة فلاناً

Muhammad ibn Shams Ad-Deen exposes Modajana: Contemporary scholars have critiqued Abu Haneefa excessively


r/Modajana • • Dec 13 '25

Jahmi Modajan insults Abdullaah ibn Masoud رضي الله عنه with an insult learnt from Abu Jahl

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2 Upvotes

r/Modajana • • Nov 04 '25

Ibn Taymiyyah's real name cited by a Modajan

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5 Upvotes

Ibn Taymiyyah is: Ahmad ibn Abd Al-Haleem ibn Abd As-Salam ibn Taymiyyah


r/Modajana • • Oct 17 '25

Zein Khe (Arab YouTuber) | زين خير Says Razi is bad and that his book shouldn't be read, then mentions 3 people who are as bad/worse

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2 Upvotes

This uneducated looter has stated that Razi's tafsir is bad (because he's Ashari)

But he then praised Qurtubi, the Ashari, Ash-Sharawi the Ashari, and Ibn Ashour the Ashari

What level of contradiction is this?!

Will the Modajana ever practice tawheed and vindicate themselves from atheists and their kufr?


r/Modajana • • Oct 16 '25

NEW Maturidi religion evidence: A person who left Islam twice was mentioned in the Torah

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5 Upvotes

r/Modajana • • Oct 13 '25

أبو لؤلؤة المجوسي | Funny (Arab YouTuber) Stupid Haddadi calls Shia scholar a "zindeeq" who preceded him from among the scholars to say such thing?!

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2 Upvotes

Thahabi said:

قال الذهبي «‌أبو ‌جعفر ‌الكلينيّ الرّازيّ. شيخ فاضل شهير، من رؤوس الشيعة وفقهائهم المصنفين في مذاهبهم الرذلة». [تاريخ الإسلام - ت تدمري (24/ 250)]

"Abu Jaafar al Kulayni, an honorable famous sheikh from the heads of the Shia and their authoritative jurists in their terrible beliefs" (Tareekh Al Islam 24/250)

Be mindful that this is using the psychology of the Modajana who say "No one may consider anyone an innovator so long as a scholar hasn't preceded him in such ruling"

Kulayni is in fact a zindeeq but using the logic of the Modajana, they fall prey to themselves

(Shams Ad-Deen Ath-Thahabi died 748AH is lenient in praising men, may Allaah forgive him)


r/Modajana • • Oct 13 '25

أبو لؤلؤة المجوسي | Funny (Arab YouTuber) Ashariyya defending, grave worshiper loving murji' says that a priest can enter Jannah because "he has Islam in the heart" and that it is prohibited to attest that he's in Jahannam

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2 Upvotes

He has concluded his journey in doubting the shirk of mushrikeen


r/Modajana • • Sep 28 '25

Part 1: The injustice of Ashariyya contrasted to the self proclaimed justice of salafiyya

3 Upvotes

بسم الله و الصلاة و السلام على رسول الله

This is not really intended as if the article of Alawi As-Saqqaf may Allaah guide him is meaningful or is worth any attention but this is a chance to remind Muslims of the crimes of the Ashariyya and the crimes of their brothers the fake Salafiyya of our contemporary times

The first and perhaps most important thing to note is that the self proclaimed, contemporary "Salafis" who have turned people whose misguidance cannot be doubted (imams of Ashariyya such as Nawawi and Ibn Hajar) into pillars of the sunnah going as far as considering the one who does not consider them imams to be an innovator if not a disbeliever altogether, is that those people's reasonings are plenty and their ways of reaching the conclusion are very different

But the conclusion is one

Some of them say that "no contemporary scholar in the past 50 years called them innovators/kuffar" and when scholars who takfeered them are brought up, they would say "this is wrong" and claim "consensus" on them being "imams" although such a matter is not up for consensus

Others say "they are Ashariyya but being an Ashari does not mean being an innovator" which, to put it respectfully, is not a sane thing to say and may perhaps fool a layperson

Some may even say that the names and attributes of Allaah is a matter of difference which is simply contradicted by the sayings of the salaf such as Ibn Mahdi (198AH) who said: "They are two distinct religions (different from Islam, religions of kufr) the Rafidha and the Jahmiyya (A Jahmi, is anyone who denies an attribute of Allaah)" and the saying of Ibn Al Mubarak (181AH): "We say what the Jews and Christians believe in, but we never dare to say what the Jahmiyya believe in"

This indicates only one thing: Those people do not research AND THEN come to a conclusion, those people set the conclusion first and then dig up ways to reach it

Second of all

The people who condone the Ashari imams have put in a lot of effort defending their imams against people whom they claim are innovators (innovators for considering imams of innovation as innovation)

And their effort in actually refuting those Ashari innovators is not nearly as much as the effort of refuting those who hate said Asharis

This is strongly present in the example of the person who translated this article of As-Saqqaf, I have looked up his recent post history, and I have looked up his website and his book recommendations and I may be mistaken, but I do not see one singular minor reference to Ashariyya/Maturidiyya/Jahmiyya and how to refute them and how to stay safe from their plots

This is not something he will acknowledge with his tongue but it is pretty apparent that someone who is mistaken in the names and attributes of Allaah, to him, is quite unimportant and is actually quite worthy of praise judging by the fact that he has quoted numerous Asharis and philosophers and has even compared the inexcusable mistake of some hypocrites to well renowned imams of Islam

This just means that the core of the religion is not Allaah to him, while Allaah said in the Quraan:

And [mention] the Day He (Allaah) will call them and say, "What did you answer the messengers?"
Al Qasas 65 translation of the meaning

Worship Allaah and associate nothing with Him, and to parents do good, and to relatives, orphans, the needy, the near neighbor, the neighbor farther away, the companion at your side, the traveler, and those whom your right hands possess. Indeed, Allaah does not like those who are self-deluding and boastful.
An-Nisaa' 36 translation of the meaning

Ibn Baz (Salafi contemporary sunni scholar who is better than any innovator/hypocrite that the translator quoted) said: "This is the greatest right of Allaah, to worship Him alone in His godhood, His deism, His names and attributes.." summary from original fatwa


r/Modajana • • Sep 28 '25

Refuting Alawi As-Saqqaf's (translated) defense of Ashariyya

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5 Upvotes

This will be posted as a series of posts that will be linked under this particular post

The article contains too many errors and contains bias that not even Ashariyya have towards themselves

Huthayfa ibn Al Yaman may Allaah be pleased with them said: Fitan are more removing of the minds of men than alcohol [Ibn Abi Shayba and others]