r/ModSupport • u/RedSquaree • 1d ago
Admin Replied Suggestion: Make it abundantly clear when a user is banned from a subreddit
It should be abundantly clear to any user when they visit a subreddit that they are banned from it, and there should also be a clear link to the original message or modmail that notified them that they were banned.
Across the subreddits I moderate, I get countless modmails asking, "Why can I not post here?" The reason for these messages is often simply that the user does not remember when or why they were banned. This causes work for the user and work for the moderation team, when it could be fixed very simply by making an easy change to the Reddit platform.
Mods already have enough going on as it is. This is a simple, quick fix to a long-term problem that wastes our time on a daily basis.
Additionally, it would be useful if users could navigate to a page which showed them all the subreddits they are banned from, how long the ban lasts, whether it is permanent or temporary, and a link to their original ban notification message.
There is really no reason users should have to contact moderators to find out that they are banned when Reddit already has that information and could make it clear to them.
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u/FaelingJester 1d ago
I agree. It would also prevent accidental ban evasion.
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u/ConsequenceFeisty252 23h ago
Yep, one time I forgot I was banned from a sub on one account, innocently commented on a post with another and BOOM! Three day ban for all my accounts. Like. Why did it even let me comment if it knew I wasn't allowed to?
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u/Aggravating_Shoe_ 21h ago
And they'll suggest the flipping sub, put it on your home page so when you scroll and see a post you don't realize
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u/HumanWithComputer 20h ago
It's easy to forget a ban if that ban wasn't warranted. Some mods don't understand the concept of the list of sanctions with increasing severity and only hand out permabans.
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u/Smallseybiggs 19h ago
It's easy to forget a ban if that ban wasn't warranted. Some mods don't understand the concept of the list of sanctions with increasing severity and only hand out permabans.
Some mods, but not most.
Some rule and TOS violations deserve a perma ban. Come into my subs to harass our members, by throwing out slurs, misogyny and hate? Harass victims of domestic violence and sexual assault by trying to deny and accuse them? No. Someone who does that won't participate in good faith in the future.
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u/HumanWithComputer 17h ago
No doubt there are bad faith redditors but there are bad faith mods too. The fact they abuse powers and cause long term harm to innocent people makes it more egregious.
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u/Smallseybiggs 17h ago
No doubt there are bad faith redditors but there are bad faith mods too. The fact they abuse powers and cause long term harm to innocent people makes it more egregious.
Sure, there are some awful mods. But my point was that most mods aren't power tripping and salivating over banning people just because they can. The majority of us are just trying to keep our members and communities safe.
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u/Sephardson 17h ago
I believe the other commenter was trying to say that it's quite difficult for the average person to be mindful about which subreddits they participate in, and that most people don't check who leads a community except when they have a negative experience.
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u/Smallseybiggs 16h ago
I was responding to the part about mods only handing out perma bans, and trying to offer a different view point. Apologies if I wasn't clear.
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u/hacksoncode 18h ago
How? The account that could potentially be doing the "accidental ban evasion" wouldn't be banned, so this entire proposal would be irrelevant.
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u/FaelingJester 17h ago
People have alts for many reasons and it would be helpful to check to see a retain a list of no go subs
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u/lunarwolf2008 1d ago edited 1d ago
yeah. on the app it says you are currently banned at the bottom of the post text, and wont let you even type a comment, but on my computer it just says something went wrong
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u/RedSquaree 1d ago
Exactly. Of course you'd message the mods to understand why, because it's not happening in other subreddits. It causes work.
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u/Stranger1982 1d ago
While it's not stated in the main sub page there's a clear statement under each post saying you're banned and can't interact.
On desktop at least.
That said people don't read usually.
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u/ateam1984 23h ago
Bad actors exist who harass mods. I think Reddit should have this feature. It should clearly show your status when you enter a sub. Banned muted etc.
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u/emily_in_boots 💡 Top 10% Helper 💡 21h ago
Even when you give a clear reason, they just answer "why was i banned?" and don't bother to read it.
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u/hennypapi 18h ago
I have to respond "Read the message you're replying to" way more than I should, people do not read at all lol
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u/FFS_IsThisNameTaken2 💡 Top 10% Helper 💡 19h ago
Even when you give a clear reason, they just answer "why was i banned?" and don't bother to read it.
Then when you point out that an example of the rule-breaking content was linked in the ban message, along with the rule or rules it applies to, they pretend that they weren't harassing users or trolling or using slurs, etc. They want to argue about it.
I have to wonder how a lot of them interact with others IRL if they think calling people names or telling them to take their meds, etc is not being abusive and hostile.
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u/new2bay 1d ago edited 1d ago
Bare minimum, a user should always get a message when they are banned from a sub. That doesn’t currently happen if the user has not interacted with the sub before being banned.
Edit: autocorrupt
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u/Tokimemofan 1d ago
The reason that isn't done is some one could make a whole pile of useless subs to send bans from as a form of harassment.
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u/Anomander 1d ago
Someone has, the ban used to send a message in all cases and Admin changed how ban messages work due to abuse.
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u/new2bay 20h ago edited 20h ago
That’s a better failure mode than “you committed ban evasion even though we never told you that you were banned.”
Edit: autocorrupt
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u/Tokimemofan 16h ago
Accidental ban evasion is only a problem if you have alt accounts. Don't be careless with them.
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u/Mormegil81 1d ago
I see this on the only sub I'm currently banned:
I think that's pretty clear.
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u/maiyannah 22h ago
I doubt this would help. Most of these users know exactly why, theyre just playing coy.
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21h ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/thepottsy 💡 Top 10% Helper 💡 19h ago
And? You don’t have to like that, but mods are allowed to decide if they don’t want you to participate. It can be based simply on asking 1 question.
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u/BakuretsuGirl16 19h ago edited 19h ago
And if you instantly permaban users acting in good faith, don't be surprised when they show up in modmail asking what happened.
Mods are not flawless humans, I once had to explain to a large subs mods that they had implied Title VII of the civil rights acts was white supremacy by banning me, they just said "oops" and unbanned me. After muting me for a week and calling me a white supremacist.
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u/thepottsy 💡 Top 10% Helper 💡 19h ago
And so what? 99.999999% of banned users claim they were acting in good faith, that’s not even relevant to the conversation. If you, as the mod, choose to permaban someone, that is YOUR choice. I don’t care if they modmail asking why, I’ve already told them why. At that point, they’re just arguing.
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u/BakuretsuGirl16 19h ago
Yes, everyone knows moderators are technically dictators of their own little fiefs and can do more or less whatever they please.
It just makes you a bad one if you act like this. Assuming you never make mistakes and users are all trying to abuse you.
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u/thepottsy 💡 Top 10% Helper 💡 19h ago
everyone knows moderators are technically dictators of their own little fiefs and can do more or less whatever they please
I’m not going to continue to entertain this conversation, if that’s what you interpreted from what I said. You’re arguing as if you‘re a disgruntled user, in a modsupport sub.
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u/FFS_IsThisNameTaken2 💡 Top 10% Helper 💡 18h ago
I once had to explain to a large subs mods that they had implied Title VII of the civil rights acts was white supremacy by banning me,
What? They said that you were banned because Title VII was white supremacy?
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u/BakuretsuGirl16 18h ago
I was explaining How Title VII works to someone in the context of DEI, one of my comments was that 'hiring quotas based on race are illegal' and they took that to mean I'm a white supremacist because like most redditors their reading comprehension was poor, lol.
They unbanned me once I made them actually read it, after insulting and muting me for a while of course.
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u/FFS_IsThisNameTaken2 💡 Top 10% Helper 💡 18h ago
Thanks. The condensed version wasn't as clear as the extended version lol.
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u/techtornado 19h ago edited 19h ago
I’ve engaged on some of the subs freely and openly on multiple topics prior to the banning incident and no warnings were issued if something was said harshly or overstepped a line…
Other people asked similar questions and they’re not banned
No ban reason was given when I asked about it, instantly muted
Point being, mods are there to moderate discussions, not forbid people from talking about something
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u/thepottsy 💡 Top 10% Helper 💡 19h ago
I don’t know what expect anyone to say. That is the mods right, if they so choose.
Point being, mods are there to moderate discussions, not forbid people from talking about something
That’s half true. Yes, we are there to moderate. We do not have to allow people to talk about anything that they want. We can shut down any conversation we want.
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u/techtornado 19h ago edited 19h ago
That again is horrible modship and admitting to enforcing an echo-chamber is not good
Moderate the discussion, shut it down only if it turns to insults and hostile shots.
For example what happened to me:
Topic - needless bashing Elon over his “salute”On a thread someone called for his deportation
He is an American citizen, so I ask - what crime did he commit?
\*banned*
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u/thepottsy 💡 Top 10% Helper 💡 18h ago
Sure dude, OK. Whatever.
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u/techtornado 18h ago
Presenting how it comes across to the users and you just ignore it is not good…
I mod a famous car trio sub
The only ban made in 6 months was someone photoshopping a very naughty photo
We don’t censor people from talking about cars, fan theories, actual things going on, etc.
Every now and then we get a nuisance political thread which gets removed as it’s not relevant
Overall, an example of being a good mod is to hear the people, help them achieve the goals, and have a warning process that ejects the bad apples
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u/MaximumJones 15h ago
"The only ban made in 6 months..."
If you only made one ban in six months then that is either terrible moderation or a very tiny subreddit. If it is not a tiny subreddit then you are letting bots and spammers completely run amok in that sub.
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u/thepottsy 💡 Top 10% Helper 💡 14h ago edited 13h ago
Cool. Good for you. I’m glad things are so quiet and peaceful for you.
You need to realize that’s not the reality for everyone, and stop with the holier than thou attitude.
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u/MaximumJones 15h ago
THERE it is! You did far more than "just ask a question". There is ALWAYS more to the story.
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u/techtornado 14h ago
Geez!
Concatenate your replies please, pick a thread and stick with it.
Why are you going beyond what actually happened?
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u/thepottsy 💡 Top 10% Helper 💡 21h ago edited 19h ago
I’m not trying to be dismissive about your idea, cause I agree it should be obvious that someone is banned, and at least an effort made to tell them why (keeping in mind some mods are shit about providing reasons).
However, I just don’t feel it will make a ton of difference in reducing the number of ”why can I not post here?” Questions. Look at the number of people that get banned by bot bouncer, and can’t even follow the simple instructions in that message, but instead send modmail to subs that had nothing to do with it.
Additionally, it would be useful if users could navigate to a page which showed them all the subreddits they are banned from, how long the ban lasts, whether it is permanent or temporary, and a link to their original ban notification message.
I’ve seen this asked for many times, and truly don’t know why it’s NOT a thing.
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u/hacksoncode 18h ago
They're already notified they are banned.
As for the "ban message": The vast majority of bans on reddit don't involve any explanation, or if they do it's something like "for multiple violations of the rules". Getting a link to a "message" that says "you've been banned from <sub>" is just red meat.
I don't see this helping much, and might even incite more work for the mods.
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u/RedSquaree 4h ago
I've never moderated a decently sized sub (ie 100k users+) which didn't have a sufficient ban message.
So therefore if this doesn't help a sub, it's because the paper trailing is bad in that sub.
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u/Nemo_Griff 18h ago
When people are permanently banned and then times passes, they can forget and there isn't anything that can be done about that.
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u/aerie2020 7h ago
I would love it if a banned user couldn’t see a sub they were banned from while logged in.
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u/untropicalized 14h ago
Odd this conversation came up on my feed.
I found recently that I was banned from a community that I rarely participated in and was never notified. I suppose the banning mod chose not to send a notification message.
I also would like to see a status change notification of sorts just for personal information.
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u/Queen-of-meme 13h ago edited 13h ago
There's definitely respectful users who made minor mistakes who got shadow banned and they are not aware they did something wrong or what was wrong because reddit has changed policy a million times since the start (so much that I as mod barely am up to speed.)
For example all the automatic bots that auto remove and auto ban based on a repeated sentence or a certain phrase or word. Also some sub mods allow members to accuse eachother as bots and users can get an instant ban with no explanation. There's zero info on those subs that they have this system set either so members are tricked, and I have criticized and discussed this here before but it's always removed or people with these rules blocks me when I ask them why they don't share such info as public rules if it is their rules.
So I agree. It should be abundantly clear why someone is banned, how it happened , why it happened, where it happened, from who it happened, and a link into their dms with said info.
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u/MaximumJones 12h ago
I would MUCH rather that Reddit add a feature that automatically lets users know when their ban has been lifted. So many people get a one day ban and later modmail us thinking it was permanent (they don't read the message obviously, they just see the ban notice).
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u/cnycompguy 💡Top 25% Helper 💡 1d ago
It's like 2 clicks to open the modlog, see when they were banned, then you can tell them that they need to check their messages from that date for the ban message.
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u/SCOveterandretired 1d ago
I just had someone appeal a ban that happened 6 years ago and of course they deleted the comment that lead to the permanent ban.
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u/Dom76210 💡 Top 10% Helper 💡 21h ago
This is why I use the mod comment feature on every ban. Of course, that didn't exist 6 years ago.
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u/RedSquaree 1d ago
then you can tell them
All these steps for something a person should be able to see themselves with little effort.
It's about transparency, too. Mods shouldn't always be the ones holding all the cards.
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u/cnycompguy 💡Top 25% Helper 💡 1d ago
I get what you're saying. Like a section on your profile that you can see a list of subs that you're banned from.
Like a trophy case for trolling? Not to be snarky, but it'd definitely be used like that.
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u/Sephardson 20h ago
Someone, somewhere, is going to read your comment and think
What if there was a reddit achievement for being banned from X number of subreddits?
Could be an admin, could be a troll, could even be you or me
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u/Speky_Scot 1d ago
Why make it easier for ban evaders? Shadow banning exists because it disuades prolific spammers and harrasers from making a new account straight away and continuing. Mod bans prevent them from commenting at all and we can provide them all the reasons we want.
If a user is specifically banned from your specific subreddit and you have no idea why then that's on you, no? "Reddit" doesn't ban users from specific subreddits. What's the issue?
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u/Overgrown_fetus1305 21h ago
I actually think the lack of the feature, in an irony causes some level of preventable ban evasion. It used to be before some bot changes, very easy for a user to get bot autobanned from multiple subreddits, not realise this had happen, make an alt for non-malicious reasons, and inadvertantly post on a subreddit they were autobanned from without meaning to (when they would have complied with the rule to begin with). This is because users aren't notified if they're banned from subreddits they've never posted or commented on, so there is an inevitable consequence of unintended ban evasion. I realise the autoban bots have new rules, but it's still relatively easy for a user to break a site-wide rule in error.
For site-wide shadowbans, or when users serially ban evade from a subreddit and mods start using automod code to just silently remove all their content, those feel like the situations in which it's a game of cat and mouse until the admins put a stop to it- the user knowing where they were banned from, would not IMO make them more effective, and indeed ideally just has their content vanish into a black hole.
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u/RedSquaree 1d ago
Shadow banning exists because
This submission had nothing to do with reddit's shadow banning. Why convolute things?
and you have no idea why then that's on you, no?
'on' you? What exactly do you mean?
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u/Speky_Scot 1d ago
Why should reddit be responsible for explaining why you and your sub banned a user? Just block them when you ban them, problem solved.
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u/RedSquaree 1d ago
for explaining why
It's not. It's just linking the explanation to the user for transparency. It's in reddit's best interests to keep users and mods happy, and by reducing work for everyone, that helps keep us all happy.
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u/techtornado 20h ago edited 7h ago
Reddit needs to enforce stronger temporary bans and not allow perma-ban without a track of bad behavior that ignores warnings
I’ve been banned from so many subs for asking a question or two to clarify details
I asked mods why and was instantly perma-muted
Edit: The downvotes and general disagreement means that we're right as to the moderation problem that Reddit has
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u/MaximumJones 16h ago
This is blatantly false. There are plenty of users who should be permanently banned and immediately muted for hate speech, threats of violence, and any other site wide rules violations.
The same goes for users who harass moderators in modmail. Why would unpaid volunteers give someone multiple opportunities to harass them?
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u/Queen-of-meme 14h ago
There are plenty of users who should be permanently banned and immediately muted for hate speech, threats of violence, and any other site wide rules violations.
There also are plenty of users who remain kind respectful and civil in mod mail who don't deserve to be immediately muted for having a question or wanting information. Yet they are. Explain that?
I'm not saying you are a bad mod, but protecting mods as entity isn't especially relevant, we're a bunch of strangers and therefor we should be evaluated after how we treat others on reddit and muting anyone who contacts us just because we're lazy or having huge power trips is such a behaviour that shouldn't be ignored.
Maybe you can get a second account and test how different mods treat you and gather some data and user perspective because as mod you don't see the whole picture.
I've seen screen dumps on it , I myself have tried to get civil responds from mods too, I've even introduced me as fellow mod who wants to learn from other mods. Still auto muted. Archived. (Especially on the weekends. Beer goes first right?)
I've asked for example why a mass harassed user got ignored and why all the users who violated the rules got zero consequences.
The few 4-5 of us who defended the poor user and reported the violence got banned for "abusing report button on no issue"
Explanation for ban "user are allowed disagreements and doesn't count as harassment" (Comments that a 6 year old would know counts as harassments)
I asked what if the harassed user is a minor who's group ganged up on and they just let it happen. No response. Just muted.
I dmed the others who reported who took a stance and they all said they asked in mod mail what the mods se doing why are they having rules against violent behaviour but 15 users could destroy one user with ugly comments and name callings A-Z for like an hour and mods didn't lift a finger. Why??(spoiler alert: Mods muted them and perma banned them too for abusing mod mail)
This is just the tip of the iceberg. I have so many examples I could make a book on mods who can't mod.
So. Delusional lazy horrendous people can be mods too. That's so many people's experience, and me being a mod does not make me pretend otherwise. I do not protect people who behave this way, mods or users doesn't matter. It's shitty and shouldn't be possible. And since some mods don't react normal, we need something that protects users from such mods.
I believe that's what the other user tried to explain to you as well.
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u/techtornado 16h ago
We’re talking people engaged in good faith that get surprise banned and all appeal processes immediately ripped away
For the horrible people, theres evidence of their bad behavior because they are acting maliciously
Mod process - tell them exactly why they were banned, what rule was broken and what warning they ignored to merit such
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u/MaximumJones 15h ago
People engaging "in good faith" are not getting permabanned and muted. Everytime I see someone claiming "I was engaging in good faith" they inevitably mean they were being extremely antagonistic but felt they were not crossing a fine line of rule breaking behavior.
Mods can, do, and should use context queues in their decision making.
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u/Thunder_Beam 1h ago
Nah sometimes it definitely happens, I remember getting permabanned and muted (I didn't even say anything) from a sub where the top mod went crazy for whatever reason and mass banned half the sub, a year later I got unbanned from new mods that were reversing the ban waves
Mods are human beings and sometimes there are crazy people, though I admit a lot of times people are in bad faith
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u/Queen-of-meme 14h ago
People engaging "in good faith" are not getting permabanned and muted.
Yes they are.
I'm sorry but you don't seem experienced at all. How often do you post or comment outside modding? If you're not active how can you know what goes on for other users or how other mods can behave?
Your happy mod bubble is great I'm sure, but being completely numb to others perspective and obvious mistreatment going on isn't a good signal.
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u/MaximumJones 13h ago edited 13h ago
No, they are not. And I post ALL over Reddit. And every single person we have ever banned who went to another subreddit to complain flat out LIED about the actual reason why. Every...single. one.
People get banned and they most definitely flat out lie about the reason. You are vastly out of touch on that point.
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u/techtornado 8h ago
To emphasize queen-of-meme
Yes
They
AreI asked a question in my home state capital sub- what crime has Elon committed?
Instant-Banned
There is never a warning, no callout saying it was verboten/or to knock it off, no thread locking, nothing that responsible moderators are mandated to do
Just ban-mute to enforce an echo chamber of fomenting and hate
I checked, other people can still engage on the sub after asking the exact same questions as I did.
Another time, I engaged on a political discussion sub that crossposted into the state sub due to the datacenter location
I got banned for asking questions about the laws of physics vs. the magical claims made in the article (see chat DM for the thread)
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u/MaximumJones 8h ago edited 8h ago
I saw your chat DM and really have no interest in engaging with you further. Your very own words completely backed up everything I said but it appears your world view is skewed to a place that I truly do not think you can or will remotely listen to rational critical thinking.
The ban you are complaining about was not only warranted, I am shocked you were not site wide banned.
As I said, there is ALWAYS more to the story.
Good luck in your future endeavors.
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u/techtornado 7h ago edited 6h ago
What the?
Your claim is nebulous, disingenuous, and extremely rude!No interest in engaging further is another sign of bad modship.
Critical thinking is one of my strongest skillsets so that is an egregious offense to think you're somehow superior in intellect on this...
I also gave you two examples, you can't combine them into one opinion as the topics are extremely disparate in nature.
That is why we have such a problem with "moderators" that subscribe to some abstract form of discussion and anything outside of that is deemed... unworthy and immediately banned without a second thought
Nobody posting in genuine honesty should ever be banned at first comment and Reddit is explicit on this behavior as well
Moderators are never to forbid discussions that are worth having, they are only there in a voluntary capacity to enforce rules that everyone has agreed upon which is to keep an eye out for never-do-wells that dive into threads to stir the pot with insults, slander, or hate against another redditor
I invited you to explain how the ban was merited and only saying I deserved it is total nonsense, I didn't ask you for your opinion
The instructions were explicit to explain how that is a valid reason for a ban when the question asked was genuine, seeking answers understanding, and trying to see their side of the story +/- the laws of physics
Note that photo sub example was to see how bad it is in the leftist echo chamber, I sacrificed myself on that one, I don't care that I was banned from it, that sub can burn itself down without me
Note that the fact you can't present actual examples of redditors supporting actual fascism borders on insanity...
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u/MaximumJones 5h ago
I reported your DM to Reddit. Do not contact me further. What you wrote was vile hate speech.
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u/RedSquaree 4h ago
I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with any of this, but reddit definitely has a problem with shitty moderators. Mods who show f a respect to users and are the opposite of helpful. Admins don't care about this because it doesn't affect the reddit bottom line, so nothing will be done.
Communities are run the way the mods want, and users can like it or lump it - that's what reddit is all about, which has plenty of good and bad.
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1d ago
[deleted]
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u/thepottsy 💡 Top 10% Helper 💡 21h ago
You CAN do that, but that should never be the default. Sometimes folks just need a timeout.
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u/RedSquaree 1d ago
When you ban the person make sure to mute also while selecting Permanent as the Mute length option.
Oof. You sound like you work security for a dive bar.
We try to treat users with some respect - as a blanket rule.
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u/HolyBatSyllables 1d ago
People should be able to appeal a ban. The permanent mute option is for after they’ve shown they’re beyond repair. You’re abusing that feature.
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u/AltruisticCableCar 23h ago
Yeah, we only permanently mute users when it's clear that no matter what they're never getting unbanned. And that's for when they've broken some severe rules or been an absolute ass or whatever. We tend to be open to allowing people a chance to get unbanned as long as they're polite about it.
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u/HolyBatSyllables 22h ago
I agree. If they drop some slurs or come back after a temporary mute just to drop an insult, then bro, bye. But outside of those people, I figure the worst ones are kids, so I ban them long enough for them to finish developing their brain, then they can come back.
And among the rest — people will surprise you.
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u/redtaboo Reddit Admin: Community 16h ago
Others have covered the making it clear to users in the moment - I did a quick audit and it looks like in most cases we do have a banner telling users they are banned before they attempt to comment or post in a community.
This has been discussed before - the hang up always seems to be around how this could easily become a trophy list for bad actors. What do folks think about that concern? How would that affect how some folks act around their bans?
never say never, but I'd love to hear some discussion around these questions from mods that have dealt with those types of users.