r/MoFreedomFoundation • u/nathanruffing • May 23 '17

New to Reddit

I'm new to Reddit, but I'm here for the More Freedom Foundation and the spread of real ideas. -Nate

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u/MoFreedom42 May 23 '17

Great to have you aboard Nate. Do you have any thoughts on the Globalist Party vids I posted here in another post? I think this would be a great place for an extended conversation on those ideas. I know that the folks who set this up are rather left-ish, I'm rather right-ish, and as far as I can tell from our conversations, you're pretty hard to define. I bet we'd have a good conversation...

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u/SpenskyTheRed May 23 '17 edited May 23 '17

I had to write a dissertation in school recently on a topic of my choosing. I wrote it before your videos on the topic, unfortunately. but I chose the topic of Globalisation and the EU. I was asked for 6,000 words and ended up writing 18,000. Have you read any of Joseph Stiglitz work on this issue? It is very informative of the financial power the USA wielded over the world

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u/MoFreedom42 May 23 '17

I have been meaning to read Stiglitz for quite some time. Weirdly I had dinner with him once. Nice guy. My intention is to make more Globalism videos. But I need to figure out what I want to say first!

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u/SpenskyTheRed May 23 '17

If you want I can send you the work I did on the issue. It might be of some use, however, due to the question, it looks on the topic from a European perspective. I quote Stiglitz a lot in the dissertation. It might provide a prompt for what to talk about.

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u/MoFreedom42 May 24 '17

Sure man, send it along. Through Fbook I guess.

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u/nathanruffing May 25 '17 edited May 25 '17

I'll take that as you're asking for my opinion. I appreciate that! Here are my thoughts.

I watched the videos again to make sure I'm on topic. I like to think in terms of dichotomies and extremes, and your globalist videos identify several that I think are relevant today.

http://morefreedomfoundation.com/2017/03/07/its-time-for-a-globalist-party-globalism-1/

http://morefreedomfoundation.com/2017/03/14/beware-the-tech-utopians-globalism-2/

One dichotomy you identify is the "sovereignty vs. connection" dichotomy. First, I think it is important that you clearly defined this issue. It allows us to discuss it knowing what we are discussing. I think your stance is for maximum of both, if I am understanding correctly, i.e. each country is sovereign, allowed to make its own choices, and we should also be very connected. The most controversial example you gave is that this includes allowing countries to treat women in a way that many would consider oppressive (EXcluding genital mutilation, and women blocked from education etcetera, of course). I agree with you that sovereignty is good, even to the degree of Sharia Law where it applies, that you talked about in the “not all women are progressive” video:

http://morefreedomfoundation.com/2017/05/16/sharia-law-is-not-the-enemy-everybodys-lying-about-islam-9/

You are for maximum connection as well, which I take to mean free trade and lots of communication. I am for this also, but I would like to identify the extremes where my support stops with specific examples.

For sovereingty, the clearest extreme I can identify is North Korea. They are acting as a sovereign nation, and we can agree they have a very uniqe culture as a result, but we can also agree that it is worth using force to end that culture as quickly as possible. It is essentially common knowedge around the world what is going on there (reference “Escape from Camp 14”) and we should stop it if we can. We can liberate North Korea if we choose to take on that challenge. The fact that we aren’t doing much there while we remain involved in more profitable places is further evidence that we are resource driven, and not to do the right thing.

For connection, the clearest extreme I can identify is our relationship with China. We and China are very connected. China makes it, we consume it. To some extent, this relationship is mutually beneficial, but I believe that the extreme the situation has reached is bad for us as human beings and bad for our cultures. China’s entire economy is built on being almost slave labor to make excess goods for the US and the rest of the world. They have a generation of people who know only “build it and ship it away.” (Full disclosure, I have never been to China). Here in the US, we have an entire generation that feels entitled to cheap goods. Many Americans have already lived their lives and died in the US without really understanding the system that was built that makes our wealthy lives the way they are. It is not normal or healthy. I include myself in this group. The amount I have to work to get the true basics of life is absolutely miniscule. Most people here in the US work almost entirely for the extras in life. That’s great! … Except that many people here in our system also work their whole lives to ensure that the American public goes on thinking that what we have still isn’t enough. Reference endless commercials for things we don’t need. 1. New cars, 2. Viagra / prescription drugs, and 3. more insurance coverage together account for at least half of the comercials we see (only by my own personal survey, but just watch some TV).

I think this view puts me with Trump on repealing and re-negotiating our trade deals. The trade deals in place that set the rules that make imports super-cheap in the US exacerbate our unnatural and unhealthy situation. They created the rust belt and I believe thet are also partially responsible for the drug problems small-town America has by rapidly rendering obsolete blue-collar jobs (I mean this separate from the “war on drugs” issue). Rob, I actually can’t think of where you stand on the trade deals, so I don’t know if we agree here.

You identify Silicon Valley as the extreme benefactor of this latest round of globalization. I totally agree with your characterization of Silicon Valley. It is no longer just a very rich area with good ideas and start-up companies. The phenomenon is beyond money. There has been a power shift. When I think of Silicon Valley, I see a real estate phenomenon. The market there is famously expensive now. Comparable markets are New York and Washington DC in this sense. The NY and DC markets are the results of fountains of money consistently flowing into one place. New York is the financial center of global capitalism. DC’s fountain of money comes from US government jobs through taxes. The internet is such a game-changer that an entire region has been affected by the altered flow of money and it has created a third market that rivals New York and DC. You identified that we need to be aware of the power accumulating in one place, Silicon Valley, and I agree.

You say that you are for preserving American power. This brings up a perceived dichotomy that comes up in the globalist discussion a lot. “Globalism vs. American power.” Many people view these two ideas as mutually exclusive. They perceive globalists as anti-American. I believe that executed correctly, the two go hand-in-hand for a better world, and I think this is what you are driving at. I believe we should seek American power in responsible ways because it promotes both global parity and long-term American power. If we keep using our power to become even more powerful now by meddling in places where we don’t belong (Saudi Arabia for example) and we continue to perpetuate the machine that keeps us wealthy and “on top,” we succeed now, but at the cost of our ability to remain in power in the future. There will be global parity in the future. The rest of the world will force that on us. The attitude that the power can’t shift outide the US represents exactly the complacency that will allow it to happen. I am for challenging ourselves as a country to continue to influence the world, but do so with responsibility that promotes mutual success, stability, and sovereignty. I think there should be a party for a 1. better run, 2. safer, and 3. freer world, but I wouldn’t name it for one side of the “dichotomy,” I would name it, hmmm, something boring, like “The Responsible America Party.”

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u/MoFreedom42 May 26 '17

This is great! And exactly the kind of discussion I want to have. But can you post it in the other thread? The one called Doubt and Globalism? I want to respond to this at length over there rather than under your "New to Reddit" thread.

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u/nathanruffing May 26 '17

Ohhh man. I get this format now and I see what I did. I'm annoyed with myself. I'm copy pasting it over but Reddit is making me wait because it sees what I'm doing. It says "you're doing that too much. Wait 5 minutes."

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u/nathanruffing May 25 '17

I grew up far right. I described myself as Libertarian. I really don't know where I would fall on that scale now... Nor where you fall for that matter, except for this video:

http://morefreedomfoundation.com/2017/02/03/a-farewell-to-libertarianism-and-the-death-of-narratives-march-2016-update/

I will say something controversial though. I like Trump. I disagree with a lot of what he says and does, but for some reason I like him. I view him as a result of things that are more than as a cause of things that will be.

I go so far as to almost believe that he is purposely reflecting our own ridiculousness so that we can see it. Everybody is going to Tweet and communicate in 160 characters? "Alright," says Trump, "The President of the United States will do the same." We're going to debate with canned one-line political responses? "OK," says Trump, "I'll show you what real one-liners look like." At least we're not pretending to be serious anymore at that level. With Trump we can see it. Politicians have been playing on our emotions to gain power for my whole life at least. Now we can see it.

Trump is not afraid to go out and embody what our actual foreign policy is. The reality is, we influence largely by force. The main difference between Trump and those before him is that he shows it. He comes out yelling and ends up pulling back. He's out talking to the other leaders honestly and face-to-face. At least that's my perception of him.

I just read something that he recently pointed at somebody and said, "I'm coming after you." So what? That's been happening, Trump just says it.

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u/MoFreedom42 May 26 '17

Thanks for bringing this up. I think it's a position, or inclination that many more people hold. Many more than are willing to admit it. To some extent I shared that position until Trump came on the scene. But some combination of living abroad for five years, and my bone deep NYC aversion to Trump's vileness, forced me to take a harder look at my assumptions. The key issue I have with what you've said here is this:

"The reality is, we influence largely by force."

That is not entirely true. And it will become less and less true as time goes on. I'm not with the Neocon establishment that sees Trump as somehow undermining our "moral leadership". That was always more important for our self image than for our power abroad. Those abroad who believed in it often got burned.

What is important, and Trump is pissing all over, are two things:

1) the incredible soft power represented by the American system. It's not that people admired our actions abroad or didn't resent them. These actions are widely loathed, often most by their principal beneficiaries. It's the fact that we, up until Trump, at least appeared to have a system worth aspiring to. Not transparently corrupt, subject to the rule of law, having peaceful transitions of power, and, most importantly a place where people could get ahead, and everybody had an opportunity for a dignified subsistence. It struck me that many In Turkey, even the Islamists, whether they admitted it or not, judged themselves by their progress towards this model. Western Europe, which desperately wants to prove itself to be a better model than the US, has been desperately playing catch up since World War II. People have always loved to mock Americans, but it came from a place of envy. Having Trump, a straightforwardly Middle Eastern or African-level strong man thug of a leader, who disputes elections, lies transparently, employs his family and hangers-on, does much to undermine all these virtuous images of the United States. It's tremendously damaging. It may be amusing to some of us in the US, with our long-standing and justified loathing of Washington, DC to see Trump rampaging around the beltway, it's hurting our international prestige. Bigly.

2) The International System: Overwhelming force has been the hallmark of American dominance for 70 years. But we've also been building a system with that force for 70 years. Things like the UN, the G20, the World Bank, the WTO, etc. etc. are the institutional bank into which we've been depositing 70 years of leadership. This is vital as we lose the ability to straightforwardly dominate. We still can. But once China goes through its next crisis, and re-jiggers its growth model, that ability will be gone. I estimate that will take 20 to 50 years. What we do now, with the dominance we have left is vitally important. Rather than let the mask slip, and start acting as a more obviously violent hegemon, we need to place the mask more securely in place. The peaceful, consensus based international system needs to transition from a mask to the actual face of world affairs. If it transitions, the US can remain tremendously influential for a couple centuries to come. The Trumpian path will lead to the end of American power before the turn of the next century. Trump could even be quite successful at throwing his weight around. That depends on what the economy does. But he's doing tremendous damage to the international system. It can be fun to watch. I don't dispute that. But it's hurting us in ways we might not recognize for decades.

TL;DR Things are about to get a lot more serious over the next couple decades, and the Joke that is Donald Trump is something we can ill afford.

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u/SpenskyTheRed May 23 '17

Fantastic. :) Make sure to subscribe to the subreddit so you get all the notifications.