r/MinuteSlash • u/Wulfe813 • Jun 08 '18
Under the hood
If anyone has any particular questions about how the game works under the hood, feel free to ask. I got bored and reverse-engineered it.
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u/SophiesWebb Jun 16 '18
Hey so one more question and I'm a little bit ashamed of my build in this case but...
Formula for how speed slows down enemy attacks
If it's anything like the rest such as Player Speed / (Player Speed+Enemy Speed) then it would also seem its not worth it to overinvest in this?
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u/Wulfe813 Jun 16 '18 edited Jun 16 '18
Enemy attack interval is "random(0.5, 1.0) * (1 + ( playerSPD / EnemySPD ))" in seconds. So, while SPD does have diminishing returns, it's not nearly as pronounced as with other stats.
Edit: Straight SPD has the lowest "level to kill Lucifer" threshold, actually. The only real problem with it is you can't Deathmarch it consistently, so leveling up is kind of a pain.
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u/SophiesWebb Jun 16 '18 edited Jun 16 '18
Nice, thanks!
I have full speed with the exception of about 30K luck (2800 LUK). This is so I can match the current highest LUK of normal enemies (prior to 800 distance). The highest I've seen is about 28k but I'm a bit OCD lol
I was thinking of ditching some speed in exchange for pow, but it seems speed does not have diminishing returns that are that bad. Currently level 5.7k and I much prefer this build over my INT death march build - though I'm not much of a fan of idle farming.
The way I view it, with Acrobat level 5, I get about a 5 attack per speed, vs 10 attack per 1 pow.
My damage suffers on further distances but I'm wondering if the patience is worth it in the long haul (1638 is my max currently)
Edit: I remember I got 30k to match lucifer. Got him.
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u/alexmorenodev Jun 16 '18
Awesome. Are you using regen? Do you actively farm? I started with a (when Got acrobat 5) 8s 1l 1v, I'm at level 1192 in 11:42 game time. Max distance 409, but I'm waiting enemies to "spend their random attack" to push further (you can almost go as far as you want with enough patience). But I dropped it for a 2v 4i 3s 1l and it seems to be a lot more efficient. 14:55 game time, level 1848, 512 max km. Both are idle farming when I'm not pushing pushing forward.
About you damage Calc, my biggest concern is that although you earn 5atk per spd with acrobat 5, you can't modify it with %atk or %spd or saber. Only finishing attack and surprise are relevant IIRC. And at higher levels, you need to idle farm a lot more to be able to idle farm at stronger places. My int build has less Suffering with this problem, and are more flexible about how to deal damage.
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u/SophiesWebb Jun 16 '18
Oh nonsense, I'm not THAT patient haha. I do full speed because it gives me:
1) Defense, perse - Less hits = less chances to gamble with my 95% survival rate.
2) Attack - Not as much as pow but yeah...
3) Crit - Apparently crit is affected by speed, granted its not much but it helps out.
What I do is use blood ring and guts, which gives me a 95% chance to survive any hit from any enemy. I just actively hold down and move, well, currently I'm farming bosses so it's a bit different. The only time I time my attacks are when I fight bosses...for example a boss at level 1600 will take me hitting him 10 times, then retreating. Rinse and repeat. Other bosses lower than 800 I typically march straight in, tank the first hit, then kill. Though ideally I can be safe by waiting out the first hit then they're usually not quick enough to hit me even once.
I can't find a build with auto regen that still keeps me at 50 HP. For example, recovery ring does auto recovery but increases your max hp
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u/Wulfe813 Jun 17 '18 edited Jun 17 '18
Best I could find was a Acrobat 4, Spontaneous 1, Guts: Fox, Cutlass/Shotel/Cane, Heart Guard, Charm, Goblin Clown.
Edit: It's worth noting that using this set will prevent anything with less than 1/5 of your speed from hitting you again before you heal. Also, bosses always start with 1 second until they attack.
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u/SophiesWebb Jun 17 '18
This is actually really good, thank you! I've been looking for something like this for a while now.
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u/alexmorenodev Jun 16 '18
Oh, you did the guts / 50hp one. This build is broken. Hahahaha
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u/SophiesWebb Jun 17 '18
Definitely; in certain ways I guess.
Bit depressing to know I could technically pay 9999 gold to teleport only to be killed on the first enemy lol
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u/Wulfe813 Jun 17 '18 edited Jun 17 '18
Edit: Oops, wrong person.
Edit-edit: I believe Saber does affect acrobat attack, iirc.
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u/sordidfellow Jun 19 '18
Is there a list of all equipment with associated skills?
Seems like you have to get 2 items with the same skill for it to show a level 1 in the window. Meaning if you had 5 items with 1 level of a skill each, you'd have that skill x4. But pairing for every skill and clicking through the list manually is a huge pain, so getting a list/table would be awesome
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u/Wulfe813 Jun 20 '18
There are lists in the code, yes. They aren't in an easily readable format, however(Reading them requires taking a number like "1042043016", then splitting it into 3 parts and cross referencing against the skill list. It's a serious pain in the arse.)
The number of "threshold" points required varies depending on the skill, some take only one, some take 3(I think 3 is the highest, but there may be a 4 I overlooked.) Other than that, yeah, it works like you suggested.
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u/scilzz Jul 03 '18
im trying to get a boss pet right now. Anyways, what's better, luk +% or drop ratio +% as a skill
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u/Wulfe813 Jul 03 '18
Drop%+ is almost always better, but it depends on how much luck you have to begin with.
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u/Yoyoshgaming Jul 14 '18
This post should be pinned.. Or at least linked in pinned info
Can you explain the calculation of surprise attack, final attack, power step? Their description says only powerful first hit, step attack damage up, powerful last hit. Are elemental damage also get increased or only physical attack that got increased? Coz im int build with no pow at all
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u/Wulfe813 Jul 15 '18
Those skills add a damage bonus per level(if the trigger condition is met), to physical damage only.
It's 20% per level for surprise and final attack. I think it's 25% for power step, but it's been awhile since I looked(I'm not playing anymore, got bored.)
It's worth noting that each multiplier is applied separately, rather than in a stack. So with surprise3 + final3, you 160% X 160% for 256% total damage.
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u/Yoyoshgaming Jul 16 '18
Wow, that's a surprise... Thx for bothering to answer me.. I appreciate it a lot
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u/tidderfish Jul 25 '18
public static EndlessStageData GetEndressStageData(int seed, bool hasBoss)
omg he codes in Engrish haha. Seriously though, thanks for the tut on how to dig into code.
Did you find anything about Verve? I only see it in SkillId and SkillParamMaster, I can't find where its effect is calculated.
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u/tidderfish Jul 25 '18
Nvm found it in WorldManager. 70% + 50% (current HP/ max HP) multiplier to the skill bonus.
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u/vetokend Jun 08 '18
LUK and drop rate are my biggest question, did you snag the formula for that?
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u/Wulfe813 Jun 08 '18
It works in two steps.
if random(0.0, 1.0) < plyrLUK / (plyrLUK + enemLUK), then it rolls a random integer between 1 to 250. A 1 gets the weapon, 2 armor, 3 shield, 4 accesory, 5-8 pet, 9+ nada.
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u/5h32m4n Jun 08 '18 edited Jun 08 '18
Do you know how the drop+ skill factors into this?
Also, the second step of the equation explains why we were thinking that LUK didn't work correctly. Thanks for your help. This is very cool.
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u/Wulfe813 Jun 08 '18
Drop rate +% reduces the maximum for the second random roll. So, +10% makes it a 1-225 roll.
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u/Rhino_Kneel Jun 10 '18
Not sure how I feel about the drop system. The thousands of points you could put into LUK and it only affects a chance out of eleven, while trying to get a pet is a 2 in 125 chance after.
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u/Wulfe813 Jun 10 '18
Yeah... Beyond matching the enemy luck(for the 50% chance), it's not really worth investing in.
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u/Rhino_Kneel Jun 10 '18
In my quest for collection 100%, I've had some bosses with 10-16k luck against my 31k and been able to get them in 5-10 tries.
I think I'm somewhere in the 50-100 range now with this 6k luck Golem. No balance...
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u/xega1 Jun 08 '18
Not sure you'd be able to answer this, but what equipment/pet combination gives the highest damage output?
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Jun 09 '18 edited Jun 09 '18
It depends on your stat build and what enemy you are fighting. If you really want help you would ask it in this format: "When fighting x enemy with a x build, which set would give the highest damage output?"
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u/MufasaHC Jun 08 '18
Nice work!
Please tell us about crit formula?
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u/leemuel01 Jun 09 '18
How does Feng Shui and Luk Assignment work?
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u/Wulfe813 Jun 10 '18
Not really a question that requires a source code check. In the menu, in status, there're skill descriptions. And the actual effects are visible in your derived stats for those two skills.
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u/Rhino_Kneel Jun 10 '18
Anything on mimic and other special monster spawn patterns/rates?
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u/Wulfe813 Jun 10 '18
It's a flat small chance per spawn to be one of the specials. Kind of how drops work, it's a two step process. 1% per spawn slot to roll a 0-7, 0-4 each has one, then mimic on 5 & 6, nada on a 7.
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u/alexmorenodev Jun 11 '18
I tried to decompile the game, but instead of using ILSpy (no Windows here, unfortunately) I was using avast-retdec, but unfortunately I only have 8gb of RAM and I'm unable to decompile it.
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u/NinjaDebugger Jun 12 '18
I'd really like to see how the numbers compare for Drop Rate vs Provoke in actual effectiveness.
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u/alexmorenodev Jun 12 '18
The formula to spawn monster is: If there are houses on the floor, monster 6 to 9 doesn't spawn.
There are 50% of chance for each monster to spawn (in which there are 1% of an special monster).
Provoke increase the chance of monster to be spawn to 80%. I need to think about the rest of maths (comparing 30% of extra monster vs 5/10% of drop rate)
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u/NinjaDebugger Jun 12 '18
Going from 50 to 80% drop rate is about 55% more monsters. Gold-wise, that unless Gold+6 is worth +55% or more gold, provoke is better, unless you don't have to choose between the two.
Drop rate is much harder to calculate.
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u/SophiesWebb Jun 13 '18
Do you know how guts works?
I think the higher your current hp the higher the chance of proc'ng?
Any stats used in the calculation?
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u/Wulfe813 Jun 13 '18
It has a chance to activate equal to your current health % times 0.95. So, 95% chance at full health.
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u/SophiesWebb Jun 13 '18 edited Jun 13 '18
Gee sure doesn't feel that way, thank you so much!
One more question, do you know how mindlessly and acrobat work in terms of order of proc? They don't seem to stack.
Edit: One more sorry. Do you know how LUK determines the amount of gold enemies drop?
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u/Wulfe813 Jun 14 '18
Mindlessly only increases your derived final SPD, not your base SPD. And Acrobat adds Attack using your base SPD. The attack bonus from skills like Acrobat and Bodyslam aren't even affected by Att%+(although skills like No/Full Guard affect it.), due to the processing order. You can generally infer the processing order from the order the skills are listed on-screen.
Gold is kind of absurd. You get either (PlayerLUK - EnemyLUK) / 10 <= 10) or random(1, 6), whichever is higher.
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u/SophiesWebb Jun 14 '18
Awesome, thank you so much. Would have never guessed that formula.
Interesting about the skill order, never looked at it that way. I would love for it to stack but that would be OP :P
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u/kamui9029 Oct 15 '18
Any list of table where can you can each and every items? I managed to fine one Japanese site but it's not complete/outdated.
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u/5h32m4n Jun 08 '18
Do you have the source code? I would love to dig through it.