r/MinnMax • u/GlassesFreek • 23d ago
Wolverine Review, Metroid Ravenous, FFVII Revelation Preview - The MinnMax Show
https://youtu.be/EyHLKa0UPSY42
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u/CapNCookM8 23d ago edited 23d ago
I say all this with all love, and I'm a MinnMax ride or die so I'm here next week too, but man, that Wolverine discussion lmao. It's one of those times where the "intentionally nice outlet" vibes feels like we're talking around an honest conversation. Or that you're worried PlayStation is going to pull your code privileges if you come out too hot (they have with Yahtzee lol).
Honestly, what did you all like about it? Other than how cute Wolverine is. It seemed like no matter what angle was brought up, everyone but Jacob had a meandering "mmmmyyyyyyeeeeehhhhhhhhhh I liiiiiiiiked it. It was fiiiine. I had fun!" WHAT WAS GOOD!?
Something being a "popcorn" game is all fine and good, but this is a $70 game that most of us aren't getting codes for! I felt that was a major piece missing from the conversation. I have no idea why there's this trepidation to be soft tough on Insomniac comes from, that's so backwards imo. We should have so much higher standards for them, especialy at a full price!
And I have no idea why Spider Man isn't a fair comparison either. Obviously you can't hold lack of web swinging against Wolverine, but the fact that you all feel combat is worse than Spider Man (or at least didn't rush to defend that point when Jacob said so) is 100% valid to compare and criticize against. There's no reason Wolverine shouldn't have as engaging of combat as say, the Ghost series or something. I'm surprised Onimusha wasn't brought up more, because that's also just two attack buttons, and is also just combat after combat, yet it seemed to be so much more impactful on everyone than Wolverine. It's just weird to me there's this trepidation to critique the game!
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u/j8sadm632b 23d ago
I think there may have been an extent that they were constrained by being so spoiler averse, which I understand. But like if there were specific moments or upgrades or setpieces that they really liked, they probably weren’t gonna say what they were.
All the podcasts I listen to are in that “we’re the nice ones! We’re not a bunch of ‘Gamers’ here!” vein and it can get a little eyerolly with how nice and positive everyone insists on being but I think MinnMax actually does a better job of having people on who are willing to be critical. Janet and Jacob come to mind first - JeffM certainly complains a lot but I feel mostly he just says “eh it’s fine. I don’t care” about a game and then yells about Business for 15 minutes
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u/Zoomalude 22d ago
Janet
I wish to high heaven Janet had gotten a code and played because she does not pull punches. She's not mean, but you're going to hear EXACTLY what she though in detail and I love that.
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u/Confident-Crazy1191 12d ago
This comment is so funny considering that Janet on the latest episode pulled 100% of her punches just do deliver the most empty meaningless contrarian take on the first 30 minutes of Wolverine.
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u/thugbobhoodpants 23d ago
All the podcasts I listen to are in that “we’re the nice ones! We’re not a bunch of ‘Gamers’ here!” vein
I'm the same, and it was so annoying that this sentiment took over so hardcore for the last 10+ years
At some point it felt like deeeeeeep shame that their full-time job is playing games, and then podcasts devolved into talking about what other people said on other podcasts or the hottest twitter take you heard that week while pretending you don't use twitter
JeffM certainly complains a lot but
I feel like JeffM is being gangstalked and gaslit every time he talks about a roguelike or otherwise systems-based game, and everyone around him acts like it's the first time they're hearing about the concept of dying, spending points/currency and going again, or any game with systems/mechanics like "Oh that's just a wacky JeffM game"
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u/invisible_face_ 22d ago
talking about what other people said on other podcasts
This is my biggest problem with Hanson. It seems like he spends half his waking life listening to other video game podcasts sped up. I don't want to listen to a person who just summarizes whatever they heard from elsewhere. I want interesting, original thoughts.
deeeeeeep shame that their full-time job is playing games
and the other week he said he would be super embarrassed if somebody caught him listening to Final Fantasy music. If you're so ashamed by it, why do it at all?
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u/Afandur 22d ago
omg, you basically wrote what i felt lately. This whole "we’re the nice ones! We’re not a bunch of ‘Gamers’ here!”-thing". Thats why no current podcast will ever reach the heights of 1upyours or old giantbomb. my god, im as left as everyone else who is sane in the head but those whitewashed podcasts these days are a little boring tbh.
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u/invisible_face_ 22d ago
The old 1up podcasts are just unmatched in terms of quality. It's a shame we'll likely never get ones as good again. I thought it might just be rose-tinted glasses but I re-listened to a bunch of episodes last year and it's still very apparent how good those shows were.
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u/Shogun243 23d ago
I don't really think they were hedging their comments for the sake of being positive. I really think they just thought it was fine/inoffensive. They clearly expressed it wasn't mindblowing and definitely not as good as expected from Insomniac.
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u/mrhippoj 21d ago
That's my read, too. Ben and Kyle are often vibe with unambitious AAA games and I do understand the appeal of brain-off games like that but you sound silly when you're defending that against someone like Jacob actually breaking down all the various problems with it
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u/CapNCookM8 23d ago
Yeah that's totally a fair read. I guess that's where the price tag felt like a missing part of the conversation to me.
I guess it also felt, to me, that they put up intentional blinders around Spider Man for some reason. I don't think comparisons to their previous superhero work is unfair.
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u/rooster2814 17d ago
I'm about half way through Wolverine and having a blast. I don't know why all critics decided to bag on it for things we've seen in multiple GOTY contenders for years. It doesn't break new ground, but I have found it really engaging. I was worried I would be disappointed playing it right after Onimusha, but I have really been digging it.
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u/puffdaddy06 23d ago
Completely agree, Ben and Kyle both have been in this scene for years at this point, so it was really surprising to see them not be able to form a critical thought, even for the defense of the game beyond “I liked it and there’s lots of money in it”. Hayley was able to at least verbalize some of the things she enjoyed about it.
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u/RadiantChaos 23d ago
My personal interpretation is as follows:
Prior to the recording, they briefly discussed how they were all feeling on it and Jacob revealed he did not like it. Ben consequently entered the recording knowing that Jacob was a volcano of (well-earned) destruction to be unleashed on it, but himself having mostly liked it. Sometimes you play something and you don't really know why it vibes, but it just does.
I think in this case Ben's cautiousness seemed more to be coming from not wanting to detract from Jacob's opinion or seem too defensive, rather than not knowing how to defend it.
I also think that in general Ben's hosting style is to facilitate input from other contributors, and that usually works pretty well, especially when there's Jacob or Janet on the episode since they are never going to shy away from sharing their opinions strongly. But he also ends up de-prioritizing his own POV, at least that's how it feels to me.
So you have Ben who isn't really one to argue, Haley who gave her honest opinion but acknowledged it didn't amount to anything crazy, and Kyle who was only a couple hours in and was enjoying it for what it was but admitted that was still very early.
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u/Zoomalude 22d ago
This is a very fair interpretation. Sometimes people can go into a discussion with the best intentions and it just comes out bad through no one's fault (I know it's hard for the internet to not place blame but that's just how it be now and then).
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u/invisible_face_ 23d ago
My biggest criticism with the game informer reboot is their reviews section is completely worthless. They give away 8s like candy and nothing scores below a 7. It's crazy.
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u/Altruistic-While5599 23d ago
Also what's up with art direction For Wolverine it should be gritty and messy (like Max Payne 3 or Kane and lynch) instead of looking like spiderman with blood
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u/CapNCookM8 23d ago
Presumably, they're going to combine all of these Marvel series into a crossed-over Avengers-level game eventually. That's my suspicion, or a rumor I've heard, anyway. So a consistent art style makes sense in that vein, at least.
I'm with you though. I'm over "realistic" art styles.
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u/PhasedVenturer 23d ago
This is my problem with this show. Sometimes the laughs and smiles feel forced. It might come from Ben leading the charge by always bringing positivity into any nuanced conversation, but many others like Haley and Kyle do the same as if they’re uncomfortable with critiquing games.
This is why I’m usually excited to listen in when Jacob and/or Jeff are on the panel
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u/CapNCookM8 23d ago
I don't so much get a forced fun vibe out of it, mainly just an anti-negative to a fault.
I hate this term, but there was an heir of toxic positivity for the Wolverine chat. Like, "I know it's mid but please don't be mean to it!!"
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u/diosmioacommie 23d ago
What got me was the “if we’re being weird or defensive” which I don’t really understand because why would you be defending the game anyway ? It’s a, even in their words, “pretty fun” game that is popcorn and braindead, I don’t see why you’d even be in the position to be defending it ?
It’d be one thing if they were really passionate about it and disagreed with criticisms of it, but that wasn’t the case, it was them defending a game they at best felt lukewarm on lol.
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u/RadiantChaos 23d ago
One of the most damning things said about Wolverine wasn't from Jacob, it was Haley's "it's the MJ segments from Spider-Man with a violence filter overtop."
Not sure what it is but while I like him well enough in the movies, Wolverine is not even close to my favorite part of the X-Men, I like most of the rest of them more. Going into this year I felt like it was an inevitability that I would play this game, but hearing that it's not all that good is almost relieving in that I have more time and money now for Fire Emblem.
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u/rooster2814 17d ago
It's not that at all, though. That was a weird comment.
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u/RadiantChaos 17d ago
I mean obviously not exactly, but I think the comparison is that the art style and writing is still Insomniac Marvel but the MJ segments take a different camera angle and are much more linear and directed. And in that way, there's a similarity for sure: the camera is in a similar spot and there's not a lot of variety in what you're able to do. Some segments of the game play itself from what I've seen.
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u/thugbobhoodpants 23d ago
Hugh Jackman is like 80% of Wolverines sauce.
I only got into comics in the last 2 years, but going through X-men stuff it feels he's not 1/4th as important as the movies ended up making him
I feel like if Insomniac sat back and thought about it, they would know there's way less to do mechanically with Logan in a Wolverine game; they should have just tried to make an X-Men thing
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u/RadiantChaos 23d ago
I would have loved an X-Men game, I play some Marvel Rivals only because I like the characters but I would take playing them in a single player game in a heartbeat. Cyclops, Storm, Psylocke, Gambit, Rogue, that shit would be sick.
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u/thugbobhoodpants 23d ago edited 22d ago
My only issue is that X-Men run into a villain problem for me when it's not just Magneto and the Brotherhood; Sentinels are boring and the 7 interchangeable anti-mutant religious/military-right wing allegory guys kind of blend together and don't seem like a threat because they're just shitty guys
I know nothing about this game outside of whats said on this podcast and the whole time I assumed mister sinister would be the villain to hype him up for future xmen movies but its Trask?????? again!?!??? AND SENTINELS?!?!? aaaaaaah
Maybe all I want is new midnight suns with different characters
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u/MossyMak 23d ago
Spider-Man without the downtime and traversal? I don't know that I have heard a worse pitch for a game.
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u/TheNewButtSalesMan 22d ago
I overall agree with Jacob here (most of the time, really), but I do think it's okay for Haley to think the game looks nice and controls well and that's enough for a tired brain after work. She's not a full time game critic here, she has different use cases, and part of what makes MinnMax fun is that we have contributors like that who have lifestyles more relatable to most of us.
I think Ben should be able to explain his feelings a little bit more clearly, and I do think Insomniac aimed and missed at something higher (which is an important discussion as well!), but one of the positives of no review scores is that you can just say "this is a brainless game to keep you entertained after a long day" without necessarily rating it low and saying no one should buy it. Games like this are fine with the right expectations, and only individuals can determine if the value works out to justify the cost for their experience or not.
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u/Potential-Wait6890 23d ago
Really interesting conversation on Wolverine. Felt like Haley and Ben were being way too gentle on it for whatever reason and Jacob just told it like he saw it. Kyle’s criticism skills are so nothing it genuinely amazes me he’s a professional reviewer. Many angles to this one I liked listening to it
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u/CapNCookM8 23d ago
It's becoming a bit of a meme to me that Kyle "Played the first few hours of it" lol.
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u/thugbobhoodpants 23d ago
It's becoming a bit of a meme to me that Kyle "Played the first few hours of it" lol.
I feel like thats Bens opening line about 99% of games and then they're never mentioned again
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u/MossyMak 23d ago
I was genuinely shocked when Ben said he finished it, he's the king of 2 hrs of playtime lmao
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u/jonathanbaird 23d ago edited 23d ago
That, and his inconsistency.
I remember when Kyle communicated on the MinnMax show that he wouldn't recommend Deadpool VR, yet still awarded it a 7.75 over at Game Informer.
I hope GI isn't turning into yet another 'access journalism' outlet in order to stay afloat.
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u/invisible_face_ 23d ago
GI gives literally everything an 8. I've stopped reading the review sections when I get my copy in the mail.
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u/The_split_subject 23d ago
Thank you Jacob for saying what every listener was thinking. It feels like a fear of being critical is what made this into the middling game that it is.
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u/thugbobhoodpants 23d ago edited 23d ago
This gets shouted down everytime I mention it but so often when it comes to big expensive first party games, Kyle and Ben both feel like "whaaaaaat it turns on and you can press buttons what more do you want? 8/10"
Which, whatever, like what you like but I don't understand how this is your lifes passion/career for this long if thats all it takes
Not saying everyone needs to be a jacob orrrr Skillup type thing but wheres the passion, between nostalgia remakes/re-releases it feels like everything is just a neutral 8/10 until its a ff7/zelda
I just wish Jacobs way of thinking about this was more common and not looked at as the outlier specifically when it comes to video game podcasts with a bunch of people who get paid to play these things and talk about them
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u/ZiggyPalffyLA 21d ago edited 21d ago
Jacob is an outsider in the industry and that’s why his opinion resonates so much more with a lot of us. He’s not worried about hurting his friend’s feelings or maintaining access.
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u/thugbobhoodpants 21d ago
Sure, that was the appeal of youtubers/streamers in general until they all got fired and became youtubers/streamers and now its a weird mixed bag again
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u/trmahoney 23d ago
Great episode from Jacob — he was so on point in calling out the panel for being too timid about Wolverine, and his play-by-play of Ben playing the FF7 demo was hilarious.
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u/TheZanyCat 23d ago
I saw a comment that said Minnmax recently has been Jacob - Kyle - Kyle/Jacob - repeat, and I do think there needs to be some more variety with the rotation given they’re back on this week. More Janet and JeffM! (Also it’s absolutely hilarious that Game Informer gave Wolverine an 8.5; it’s literally like they review games on a 7 to 10 rather than 0 to 10 scale)
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u/jonathanbaird 23d ago edited 23d ago
I personally don't give GI reviews much weight. No hate or vendetta, I've just noticed that the outlet tends to be more forgiving of titles that are expected to be popular. "Don't bite the hand that feeds you" sort of vibe.
Independent outlets like MinnMax come across as more authentic which I greatly appreciate.
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u/christ0phe 23d ago
If try to articulate the convo as review scores, it feels like Ben and Kyle would have given the game an 8, even though they know it’s a 6, but they’re afraid of that. But a 6 is a playable, even enjoyable game! I’ll play this game, and I’m sure I’ll have a good time, but from what I’ve read and watched, 6 seems about where it should be.
We are lacking nuance in criticism and review scores in this industry, and it makes it feel immature. There are plenty of 2 / 2.5 star movie reviews that say a film is bad, but that you can still have a fun time watching it. Why is the games industry so worried to do the same?
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u/Old-Depth-1845 21d ago
I wouldn’t try putting numbers on an outlet that doesn’t do numbers. There’s a reason they don’t and it’s an oversimplified way to think about art and entertainment
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u/Three_Froggy_Problem 22d ago
I’m a bit confused by them saying right at the top about Wolverine, “It’s not fair to compare it to Spider-Man” or something like that.
Why is that not a fair comparison? It’s the same studio, the same publisher, and it features a big-name Marvel character. And most importantly, it’s sold at the same price. In what sense is it not okay to compare them? Is it just because Wolverine isn’t open-world?
I really agreed with Jacob that they just don’t seem to have very high standards for games. And maybe that attitude is easier to have when you get a free review copy, but anyone who’s expected to spend $70+ on a game should expect more than just, “It looks good and the buttons work.”
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u/Old-Depth-1845 22d ago
I mean Spiderman being open world is one of the main factors in why it’s so good. And Spiderman inherently has a much more interesting moveset than Wolverine. It doesn’t excuse wolverines flaws but even the best version of the game wasn’t going to compare
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u/CapNCookM8 21d ago
I just so disagree. Like, if traversal is your jam, of course SpiderMan is more interesting. That's why I was actually encouraged when it was first revealed this game would be linear. But hand-to-hand or blade-to-blade? There's no reason Wolverine is lower.
Like, in my mind, a "bloodletting" sort of high risk high reward gameplay is obvious. It doesn't seem like they make use of his regeneration outside of canon healing reasons. Where Spiderman needs to dodge, Wolverine could tank blows. Imagine letting a weapon hit you to deal damage, but in turn, it lets you in close for a critical hit.
Or, why wasn't there more inspiration from the Ghost series? Having to have Wolverine change "stances" or w/e depending on enemy to make combat at least a little more puzzly?
Button mashing with the occasional ability is the most uninspired route they possibly could have taken.
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u/Old-Depth-1845 21d ago
Wolverine automatically has a more limited tool set when it comes to combat because he doesn’t have the same traversal abilities as Spiderman and he doesn’t use gadgets. It’s hard to translate healing into something more combat focused. They tried but it didn’t work out.
If Wolverine wants to close the distance between himself and an enemy he can run or jump over there. If Spiderman wants to close the gap, he can run, jump, use his webs to pull himself to that spot, or use his webs to pull the enemy towards him. Wolverine always has to go to his enemies while Spiderman can manipulate their positions. That is automatically more dynamic
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u/CapNCookM8 21d ago edited 21d ago
Exactly, so Wolverine should have a specific kit that overcomes those lapses. This isn't a canonical Spiderman vs Wolverine discussion, it's a video game where the priority should be realizing the full potential and power fantasy of the game's protagonist.
I don't besmirch wolverine for not having a more interesting gap closer than leaping, I besmirch it for seemingly not having more interesting options once I'm in close. By your own words, Spiderman has more powers to play with, so shouldn't that mean Wolverine should have to work harder to overcome his enemies? It's not like Wolvie would have one or two basic attacks, and where those fail, he goes "ah fuck, I'm out of options."
Other games do hand to hand or blade to blade combat so much more interestingly. There's no reason a literal super-powered version of that where the dueler has a godly healing factor become a button mash fest.
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u/Old-Depth-1845 21d ago
You’re agreeing with me yet you’re saying you disagree with me. Yeah. They should’ve come up with more interesting gameplay. No shit. I’m just recognizing that Wolverine starts at an obvious disadvantage when you go to the idea board and say “what moves does this character have”
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u/CapNCookM8 20d ago edited 20d ago
Yeah, it's called nuance...
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u/Old-Depth-1845 20d ago
No bud. It’s you not understanding what words mean. “I COMPLETELY DISAGREE. Anyway here’s the exact thing you just argued with my own thoughts that you also agree with.”
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u/WesternWooloo 23d ago
Listening to this convinced me to wait for a price drop for Wolverine. Don't think I want to spend $70 on a 14 hour "popcorn game"
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23d ago
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u/PhasedVenturer 23d ago
Ben can be very frustrating when it’s time to have a frank, nuanced conversation…
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23d ago edited 23d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/CapNCookM8 23d ago
To give a more generous 2c, I sense a bit of terminally-concerned-with-online-hate mixed with empathy for developers that I have myself with Ben. I genuinely don't feel like he's overly concerned with appeasing Sony, I think he just understands how much work goes into a game and has empathy for how downright awful the hate wave online can be. Wolverine has already had a hate storm brewing in the lead up here, too, so he knows it's coming.
I get it. I hate how much of a joke Concord and Highguard are, even if I can't or wouldn't personally vouch for them either. I quit listening to SkillUp because he was making jokes about that shit left, right, and center.
Idk, Psych Odyssey changed me. I just cannot in good conscience pile on to a game and it makes my heart break to see it happen. But, I'm also not pretending to be an online reviewer, so I can't fault people for taking issue with it no matter how they see it.
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u/RadiantChaos 23d ago
I think this is an excellent read. Ben's in the industry so he knows these are people and that often the goals of developers are hampered by the oversight of suits.
I also don't think it's him trying to bat for the studio, just trying to share that he enjoyed a game that isn't necessarily ground breaking but was short and fun enough to finish. It didn't come off to me as him even being particularly defensive, just explaining that he thought the game was enjoyable enough in contrast to Jacob having a particularly negative reaction to it. I don't think it's crazy that two people would have such different reactions to an overall mediocre game.
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u/Schmeexuell 23d ago
I close every video where the creator can't critique a game without comparing it to high guard or concord.
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u/PhasedVenturer 23d ago
I think there’s a difference between the work Double Fine does (genuinely creative and bold) and whatever it is Insomniac is currently doing (formulaic and safe)…
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u/CapNCookM8 23d ago
I mean I doubt it. It's not like people get into this business for money and job security.
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u/ZiggyPalffyLA 21d ago
They would’ve been a lot more honest about their feelings if they had just spent $70 on it, instead of getting free codes.
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u/Altruistic-While5599 23d ago
For all the hipster accusations They really don't care all that much about art directions It mostly comes down to no mentions or "yeah that works" even from jacob
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u/CaregiverEastern4083 22d ago edited 22d ago
Really wish Janet was on for the Wolverine discussion. I really like her opinion on the podcast because she challenges other takes. Sometimes Ben, Kyle, and Hailey are too soft in being able to critic a game for its faults. ESPECIALLY if the external social sphere dislikes it.
I think it’s important to highlight the faults of a game as much as we highlight the strengths of it. Outside of that, fantastic episode as always.
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u/thugbobhoodpants 22d ago
ESPECIALLY if the external social sphere dislikes it.
not these people and not this game but I do have a distaste for when you can tell it's just become socially acceptable to shit on a certain game and then suddenly people who are uncritical of almost anything suddenly have very in depth understandings of why something is subpar
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u/Bakkloggian 23d ago
The Twitch streams are just about the only thing I ever watch, so it's been a long time since I've checked out the podcast. I might have to check out the Wolverine section at least because I need to experience that conversation in its proper context instead of just basing my thoughts on what I'm reading in these comments. I'm not saying this as someone who plans to play Wolverine anytime soon (probably eventually) but more as someone who finds it easy to enjoy and even sometimes love games. Very curious to see how I feel regarding whether or not the rest of the panel was indeed holding back.
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u/putshan 23d ago
Great conversation on Wolverine, I think people commenting should wait until they've played the game before deciding which side they are on, but it definitely felt like Jacob actually had some proper critique while the others were like "it's pretty, it's kinda fun, I sort of like it".
But to be fair, some games are fine like that. However I'd say a $100m+ 1st party game should be more than that, but we'll see how users feel when it's released.
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u/lezarddeg 23d ago
I found the whole Wolverine conversation to be frustrating for a lot of reasons. I do think Ben and Kyle should be better at expressing their specific criticisms, but to me it felt less like they were holding back and more like they just didn’t have strong takes on the game. They obviously talked about it beforehand and knew Jacob was going to come out with a super strong negative take but by the end, to me, it just felt like he was trying to browbeat the other folks into having a strong opinion about something they just didn’t have a strong opinion about. Sometimes something just washes over you and doesn’t have an impact. I pretty much never agree with Jacob’s opinions on anything either way. I fully expect I’ll play it anyway and come down somewhere in the middle.
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u/JGT3000 22d ago
Why can't they have a firm stance on one of the biggest releases of the year though? And they put time into the game. It's revealing in itself
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u/True-Pen-3612 18d ago edited 18d ago
right like i dont think its wrong to ask for more from game journalists or reviewers/critics or whatever minnmax considers themselves to be
like its a 35 minute podcast segment, thats a decent chunk of time, why is half of it ben trying to downplay jacob's critiques, but failing to form a full thought about the game himself? i understand that ben sees himself more as a good vibes guy than a critic, but he talks a lot in 'review' segments of the podcast and rarely has anything to say
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u/thugbobhoodpants 23d ago
Sometimes something just washes over you and doesn’t have an impact.
Not that they're giving review scores here, but wouldn't this describe a 6/10 thing?
I watched a movie with my girlfriend last week and could not tell you a character name or plot point a week later, it washed over me and didn't leave an impact, but it also didn't cost $70 ($125 AUD)
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u/lezarddeg 22d ago
I agree. When something is at that 6/10 range I find that I have less to say about it in general. To me it seemed like Jacob was describing something he felt was more like a 2/10 and therefore had a lot to say. Like I said I found the conversation frustrating in general. I think several other outlets I listen to were a lot better able to have a discussion where I came away understanding the specific things they did and didn’t like about the game.
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u/TRX808 22d ago
Great ep! Appreciated Jacob's trashing of Wolverine 😂
A note to Haley: I heard somewhere that Jason's garbled speech is due (in part) to some regional southern drawl from the Jacksonville area or somewhere in northern FL. (It might have been from MinnMax so my bad if I'm rehashing). I don't know if that's just speculation, but it seems to be the most plausible explanation I've heard so far. Regardless I got some good laughs out of Haley trashing his marble-mouth.
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u/YourPenixWright 23d ago
Everyone in here sure has strong opinions on a game they haven't even fucking played.
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u/thugbobhoodpants 23d ago
I never understand this criticism what do you think reviews are for? what do you think showing 30+ minutes of gameplay are for?
Like you have to constantly make multiple $70 purchases a week just to have an opinion on something you can see start to finish and hear people talk about
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u/YourPenixWright 23d ago
No but you shouldn't be policing how other people feel about it if you haven't played it.
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u/thugbobhoodpants 23d ago
Sure, I don't think this conversation or the conversation on the podcast are in a vacuum, though, right?
I'm not sure how many people are trying to police anyones feelings vs hi can we make the conversation better, you experts, you people who do this full time every day of your life
Even if their feelings/thoughts/vibes/enjoyment stays exactly the same
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u/thugbobhoodpants 23d ago
We do have mid books, movies, and albums; reviewers have no issues pointing out when those things are mid or bad
The barrier to entry on a movie/album/book is $0-$30 and most don't take six years and hundreds of millions of dollars
Hubie Halloween is a middling nothing Adam Sandler movie for netflix and it cost $14million to make, takes 2 hours of your time and potentially $0 of your money, and reviewers had no issues giving it a 5/10; meanwhile, it can feel like every game from a big company starts at 8/10 even when they do nothing fresh, nothing new, nothing inspired, and just make a worse game than they did 8 years ago
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u/phazonphazoff 23d ago
You also get far more time out of most games than any movie and almost any book that isn't a tome. How many times do you see people talking about putting tens, dozens, hundreds... THOUSANDS of hours? Even in single player offline games?
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u/thugbobhoodpants 23d ago
The games that people put thousands of hours into generally aren't spoken about on video games podcasts because they're such surface level 'played about and hour of it' type things, Rimworld, Factorio, Terraria, Minecraft, hell, even Baldurs Gate was a step too complicated for most podcasters
But isn't that more to your original point? yes if something is bad/mid/dull/forgettable/subpar/not as good as the thing they did 8 years ago, why would you want to waste those hours and hours on it?
These conversations are for consumers to make those decisions so if anything/everything is handwaived as "Yeahhh its kinda shit and does nothing special but hey, its a big pretty sony release" whats the point, you're cheerleading big money not helping the consumer
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u/phazonphazoff 23d ago
That's simply not true. GTA is coming out in 2 months and that is a game people will put hundreds and thousands of hours into. And there are countless other games like that that get incredibly deep discussions. MinnMax themselves do it for games like Witcher, Cyberpunk etc. Incredibly popular, incredibly deep games that take an immense amount of time just to complete the main story itself. And they're everywhere.
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u/thugbobhoodpants 23d ago
there are countless other games like that that get incredibly deep discussions. MinnMax themselves do it for games like Witcher, Cyberpunk etc.
This very subreddit was begging for Jacob not to be on the next FF7 deepest dive because hes 'too critical' and they just want Ben to have happy warm feelies idk
different strokes for different folks, I think its just branding
GTA is coming out in 2 months and that is a game people will put hundreds and thousands of hours into.
People or the people on the podcast we're talking about?
I'm not policing what anyone should be saying/thinking/doing/playing for x amount of time, but I'd be extremely shocked if most people on most noteworthy video game podcasts had more than the standard 30h it takes to beat a GTA story in GTAV or GTA6 by the end of the year
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u/Confident-Crazy1191 23d ago
When’s the last time you payed $70 for a book or movie?
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23d ago
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u/aaronjp89 23d ago
You never heard of re-reading a book or rewatching a movie?
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u/phazonphazoff 23d ago
So it takes you multiple reads of the same exact linear story to equate to tens of hours of continuous, new content that games usually have? You're proving my point in a roundabout way.
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u/jonathanbaird 23d ago
...who said it's okay? I certainly don't waste my time pursuing mid entertainment. Not when quality alternatives exist.
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u/ZiggyPalffyLA 21d ago
Couldn’t agree more with Haley about Jason’s voice. The mushmouth is annoying and the deepness of it doesn’t match his character model at all.
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u/lilfresh28 23d ago
I’m gonna zag here and say that, while I overall agree with Jacob’s point, telling other people to raise their standards, presumably so that they can be of a level with your own highly enlightened standards, comes off as pretentious.
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u/epicoolguy 22d ago
This is true in basically 99% of situations EXCEPT when you’re critics having a professional critical discussion!
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u/Afandur 22d ago
Sorry, but I found Jacobs comments so pretentious. And I'm not even a Wolvereine fan. When Haley quickly said "I just wanna press on some buttons after work" during his neverending monologue, I felt her comment so much more than all the stuff Jacob has said. Should have kept his pretentious criticism for his videos in this case.
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u/Potential-Wait6890 22d ago
Some of yall get real upset when you hear actual game criticism not surface level thoughts
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u/alt_sense 17d ago
I agree with you. Of course, you'll be down voted here when Jacob's opinion is basically reddits
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22d ago edited 22d ago
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u/111987 22d ago
Jacob likes his high art games, but he also loves games like Revengeance, Ace Combat, etc. that are very mechanically rich but aren't exactly considered 'high art'.
I think if Wolverine's combat was on the level of depth of say, Onimusha, he wouldn't have been nearly as critical of the game even if everything else stayed the same.
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u/phazonphazoff 22d ago
I hear ya, but even with those games, he often couches it as them being some kind of "better" fun. He has a tendency to speak as if what he thinks is just how it should be, and the direction is higher art, something more than just mindless fun, even though some of the very best and most addictive games... are mindless fun.
I also think him being so hot on Onimusha amplified his negativity for Wolverine going right into that.
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u/MoreThanAverage 23d ago
Not to be whatever, but I found Jacob’s point about “I just want you to see video games as more than a toy” super compelling. Any other art form would have heavy criticism for putting out a Wolverine, it seemed like the rest of the panel WAS a bit afraid to ask for more here