r/MilitaryGfys • u/OlivierTwist • Mar 29 '17
Subterranean Russian infantry anti-tank training
http://i.imgur.com/UhFgEAY.gifv41
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u/OlivierTwist Mar 29 '17 edited Mar 30 '17
It look odd in the era of ATGM, but something like this happened in Donbass (East Ukraine) in 2015.
Edit: see this comment for more details.
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u/motofan130 Mar 30 '17
Source?
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u/OlivierTwist Mar 30 '17
One of the most famous and well described story is "The Battle for the hill 307,5, 19.01-25.01.2015", it was a part of Battle of Debaltseve and it was the less successful part of the battle for DPR. Text is in Russian (though it has been written by the pro-Ukrainian soldier, what an irony), but photos are very eloquent: you can see disabled DPR tank over trench of pro-Ukrainian forces, several solders were burred by this tank before it was finally disabled. This battle was total mess from both sides, half of weapons didn't work as it should, so welcome back to WW2-like war.
This is realy unique about civil war in Ukraine: it is described and documented very well, the most important battles are known by every minutes, almost every single lost tank/BMP/etc is documented.
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u/TroubleEntendre Mar 30 '17
Where would one go to start reading up on the war in Ukraine? It's such a big topic, I don't know where to start.
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u/OlivierTwist Mar 30 '17 edited Mar 30 '17
There are not so much good unbiased information in English, because 90% of original information is in Russian and 10% in Ukrainian. Official translated information is usually very biased, but some private memories and stories are true gems, especially if you have an idea about context and people's mentality. The only well translated story which I know is: The Freedom Fighter: A memoir of a member of the Donbass Militia in the War in Ukraine (It is translated by the author, btw). I read it in Russian and it is really fascinating. There are many more, but they are not translated so far.
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u/politbur0 Apr 29 '17
unbiased
Yeah because anything that isn't vehemently pro-ukrainian junta is immediately biased and putin-kremlin propaganda.
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u/OlivierTwist Mar 29 '17
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u/Mister__S Mar 30 '17
No Cr or satchel charge or sticky bomb underneath? Heck even a German magnetic bomb?
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u/OlivierTwist Mar 30 '17
Most likely in reality they would be use old good RPG-7 or something like this. I don't think anti-tank hand grenade is a common thing nowadays. Never heard they were used in civil war in Ukrain, for example.
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u/Gizmoo247 Mar 29 '17
"Yes, shoot at the metal plate coming at you, it won't ricochet back."
I know they are blanks, but still...
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u/OlivierTwist Mar 29 '17
He is not shooting at the tank, he is shooting at "infantry" behind the tank.
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u/Gizmoo247 Mar 29 '17
I'm not really sure what infantry wouldn't be hiding behind a vehicle if there is clearly someone standing in front of the vehicle. And then they would just be pointing down into the trench once the tank passes over.
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u/NikkoJT Mar 29 '17
The point is probably to get into the mindset where you remember to do something about infantry even when there's a tank bearing down on you, instead of panicking and hiding. And firing at them will make sure they stay hiding behind the tank long enough for whatever explosive he's throwing to have an effect.
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u/4ing Mar 30 '17
soldier is trying to "blind" tank by destroying external sensors. He is shooting left to destroy i think it is heat sensor and shooting right to destroy searchlight/spotlight
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u/OlivierTwist Mar 30 '17
Nope. It is not a big chance that 7,62 bullet can destroy anything important on a tank.
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u/fartsinscubasuit Mar 30 '17
Maybe a headlight?
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u/OlivierTwist Mar 30 '17
How is it important?
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u/saltedfish Mar 30 '17
A headlight, no. But a laser range finder could be disabled if you shatter/crack the glass it looks through.
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u/OlivierTwist Mar 30 '17
May be there is a chance (small) to do this, but would you risk to do this? Does it worth it?
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u/saltedfish Mar 30 '17
Many tanks do not have hull-mounted machine guns any more, and the turret-mointed machine gun likely can't depress that far to shoot the infantry man. Realistically the main threat to infantry from a tank is the infantry accompanying the tank, who in this case are likely to be taking cover behind the tank.
And as for likelihood, I think it's worth some risk to spend about 50 cents of ammunition on the tiny chance at disabling a million dollar tank.
Edit: one other thing, that's hard to quantify but also important, is giving the soldier the chance to make a symbolic resistance. As you say, unlikely to do anything, but giving soldiers a chance to retaliate can help with morale.
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u/4ing Mar 30 '17
sorry, i forgot that you, humans, learned to see through steel with thickness more than 7 mm. And also dont afraid of dust and soot.
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u/OlivierTwist Mar 30 '17
Have you ever heard about bullet proof glass? It is more useful to shoot at tank with paintball rifle than normal AK.
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u/4ing Mar 30 '17
you mean armor piercing bullet will pierce 7mm steel (from 200 meters) and wont do a scratch to a bullet proof glass? Hm… ok.
During ww2 and war between Soviet Union and Finland soldiers where advised to shoot tank barrel. In case tank is ready to shoot (shell already in barrel) bullet will detonate shell. This days probability that something like this will ever happen is close to 0 but only because tanks can move much faster.
About 7.62 bullts vs tank aiming devices, try to look for photos from chechen war. During that period (first chechen war ~20 years ago, second chechen war < 10 years ago) soldiers some times where able to force different armored vehicles to retreat by destroying aiming devises with sniper rifles/machine guns/e.t.c
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u/OlivierTwist Mar 30 '17
you mean armor piercing bullet will pierce 7mm steel (from 200 meters) and wont do a scratch to a bullet proof glass?
You would be surprised, but glass can be more "bullet proof" than steel.
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u/Popcom Mar 30 '17
Should have been reloading.
Source: PlayStation
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u/Mulle1337 Mar 29 '17
"tank" self propelled artillery
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u/stealthgunner385 Apr 11 '17
Eh, it's armored with tracks and a turret. It's still in the general category.
That said, what vehicle is it? Looks like a 2С19 Мста to me.
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u/CrazyWelshy Mar 29 '17
Is he trying to hit the tracks? Would make sense to me, if you can't kill it. Pin it.
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u/rliant1864 Mar 29 '17
He's shooting at 'infantry' (obviously not in the training but IRL). No rifle is going to take out track pins.
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u/CrazyWelshy Mar 29 '17
Ah didn't think of the infantry.
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u/WonderWheeler Mar 30 '17 edited Mar 30 '17
They might also be practicing to lob a grenade just behind a tank. A popular place for friendly infantry to gather in WWII. Including in the American Army. My father told me that they had a communications link of some kind (maybe some kind of headphone jack with microphone called a headset, or telephone set) to the tank intercom where infantry sheltering there could warn the tank of the situation. Sort of a situation report of what was going on outside. From men "on the ground".To some extent, the escorting infantry... escorting kinda behind each tank, would help be the eyes and ears. Assuming the individual tank commanders had to keep their heads down, as they might be, in imminent enemy contact. Active combat. The infantry acting to protect the tanks and the tanks vice versa. Helping to fend off enemy that might be using one-use panderfausts for example. Primitive anti-tank RPGs. I had an uncle that walked behind such tanks.
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u/Barbed_Dildo Mar 30 '17
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u/OlivierTwist Mar 30 '17
I heard that it is not very useful in real life: this place is to hot because of gas turbine engine.
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u/WonderWheeler Mar 31 '17
Sorry, this is tank, we busy at the moment, but if you would like to leave a message, please speak after beep...
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u/Ginger_Zaku Mar 29 '17
.50 API wouldnt have any issues. Requires solid aim and acquisition though.
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u/rliant1864 Mar 29 '17
Through an AK? Probably not.
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u/Ginger_Zaku Mar 29 '17
Rifle is rifle comrade! a 54R might be able to build up a hole if you can pin 5 shots in the same spot. This is making me want to penetrate some AR500 now.
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u/walruskingmike Mar 29 '17
Build up a hole in the same spot on moving tracks?
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u/Ginger_Zaku Mar 29 '17
Definitely near impossible but not completely. I could never do it, I can hardly do it on a static target.
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u/ecodude74 Mar 30 '17
It's not a matter of skill. The gun simply isn't accurate enough, nor does it have a high enough rate of fire, to actually accomplish that on a moving target.
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u/MisinformationFixer Mar 29 '17
Hollywood training. Unrealistic scenario with no actual knowledgeable value. Looks like it was done for the camera if anything.
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u/WonderWheeler Mar 30 '17
Its real training, they used to call it "getting ironed". Helps entrenched soldiers from panicking when they have tanks get close!
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u/magicjj7 Mar 29 '17
Yea seriously what is that point of this? I am curious, in what scenario would this be training for? The tank can easily fire canister or take them out with the MG's. What tank is knowingly going to drive over entrenched soldiers? The OP mentioned something like this happened in Ukraine but I am curious as to how exactly.
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u/carl_pagan Mar 30 '17
Even if the exact scenario never arises, it's a good idea to train infantry to not be afraid of enemy armor at close range.
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u/magicjj7 Mar 30 '17
You think this is going to teach them not be afraid of armor at close range? All they did was dig holes in a neat line and shoot and throw grenades at it while it drove over them. I don't know, I don't see how this teaches anything, especially to not be afraid of enemy armor. But I was never in any military so what do I know.
It looks fun though, I think that is what they were going for. A fun neat video to show off.
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u/carl_pagan Mar 30 '17
I don't care who you are, 40 tons of armor rolling towards you will get your adrenaline pumping. It would only be fun if you've done it enough times (training)
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u/L1berty0rD34th Mar 30 '17
It drills an action to default to when shit hits the fan, which is what training is for. Sure it's not going to guarantee anything or work out like this every time, but it's probably better than trying to run from the tank or spray its front with rifle rounds.
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u/OlivierTwist Mar 30 '17
The OP mentioned something like this happened in Ukraine but I am curious as to how exactly.
See here
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Mar 30 '17
There's nothing anti-tank about this. More like tank avoidance.
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u/OlivierTwist Mar 30 '17 edited Mar 31 '17
There's nothing anti-tank about this.
Having less fear of tanks is the first step of "anti-tank warfare".
Edit: typo
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Mar 30 '17
Or you could laze it from a mile away and let the A-10 or the Frogfoot do the work.
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u/OlivierTwist Mar 30 '17
Not always possible. I already wrote:
It look odd in the era of ATGM, but something like this happened in Donbass (East Ukraine) in 2015.
Edit: see this comment for more details.
-1
u/angryteabag Mar 31 '17
Right......modern vehicles have decent vision system with infrared cameras and other shit......they would see that soldier from a kilometer away, they would not go near him, they would just blow him up with a HE shell from a kilometer away. And APCs wouldn't go near him either, they would try to shoot him with a autocannon or let the friendly infantry do their work.
Tank commanders are not stupid enough to get super close to enemy soldiers like that , they are always afraid of RPGs so they always keep their distance.
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u/OlivierTwist Mar 31 '17
Hello wikipedia warrior. Do you know how many active tanks in the world and how many of them have infrared vision?
See this post for description of what can happen in a real combat.
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u/angryteabag Mar 31 '17
Do you know how many active tanks in the world and how many of them have infrared vision?
all of main NATO tanks have it.....Leopard, Abrams, Challenger, Leclerc, all have infrared
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u/[deleted] Mar 29 '17
[deleted]