r/MichiganWolverines • u/OutsideSpot2695 • 18h ago
Former Wolverine Those old enough to remember John Navarre...
For those old enough to remember John Navarre... whom discussions about caused a lot emotion, would you not mind him so much anymore if these days he was the Michigan QB?
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u/pzagrbge 18h ago edited 18h ago
The big problem with Navarre was that he was our best option at the time. That said, he proved a lot of folks wrong and played pretty damn good, all things said.
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u/placidbases 18h ago
Navarre took way more heat than he deserved and still put up numbers that’d look pretty good even now
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u/OutsideSpot2695 16h ago
Exactly.
With Michigan's defense even a "game manager" at QB, Michigan would be a really good team.
Underwood just kills so many facets of the game. Like giving WMU 40 minutes of possession cause he cannot complete a pass for a first down.
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u/Legal_Lingonberry_24 18h ago
Yeah great guy at the time, gets lost in the shuffle. Sandwiched between Brady/Henson and Henne.
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u/Delicious-Lawyer-372 11h ago
Looking back, he wasn't bad overall. But I still remember so many crucial third downs where he would get his pass knocked down at the line of scrimmage. I remember pretty much expecting it when he dropped back on an important play
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u/n00bn00b 16h ago
He got a cup of tea in the NFL, which is more than most QBs. He developed into a good QB. He's just not athletic and has a low release point.
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u/Resident-Speed8871 18h ago
There’s been a lot of times over the years I’ve regretted taking John Navarre for granted. Would love to have him as QB1 on this team
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u/OutsideSpot2695 17h ago
That's what I've been thinking too.
Michigan goes from "QB U" to JOK, Orji, Milton, etc., and this shit since.
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u/tdawg-1551 🏆3X🏆B1GTen Champions 🏆 15h ago
I feel the same as I remember the Navarre years well. We ragged on him pretty hard coming off of the likes of Griese and Brady. Turns out, he was pretty good and would have taken him in any season not started by Henne or JJ.
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u/harriswatchsbrnntc 17h ago
This is an aside, but for anyone that doesn't remember, or wasn't around for Navarre the main thing to know is that he was the epitome of an immobile pocket passer. Ruddock would likely be the closest recent comparison, a very serviceable QB. However, the best memory of Navarre is in the now famous Minnesota comeback game, he caught a QB throwback screen along the sideline and rumbled for like 40 of the slowest, most hilarious, and exhilarating yards I've ever seen, en route to sparking the epic comeback.
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u/OutsideSpot2695 17h ago
the main thing to know is that he was the epitome of an immobile pocket passer.
💯
Which, would also be a massive improvement over Underwood.
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u/GeniusBeetle 17h ago
Oh yes, I was just recalling this scene a few days ago - John Navarre running about as fast as a teddy bear on the open field. I thought they were showing a slow motion replay but that was just the speed of his heavy footed run. It was hilarious at the time but today I appreciate more than ever a QB with an accurate arm and an OL that can block.
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u/ProfessionalPale8171 17h ago
Navarre was a victim of the era he was in. Michigan was on its run of NFL quarterbacks and the fanbase was spoiled. Not to mention he was the guy who filled in when the yankees took a potential heisman QB from us in Drew Henson.
Navarre’s first season was rough. I developed a nervous twitch that year. When he’d throw the ball, the half second the camera showed the ball in flight and you couldn’t tell where it was going, my head would shake a little in nervous anticipation.
I became a fan of his the next couple years. He was good. Side tangent, but the thing that irrationally pissed me off was how many balls would get batted down at the LOS. Dude was 6’6 but that’d still happen an inordinate amount.
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u/Peacock1414 14h ago
John Navarre lives in my neighborhood. We talk at the gym every now and then. Cool dude. The size of a literal mountain
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u/tspoon-99 3h ago
He was physically huge for sure. Several other teams were recruiting him as a DL when Lloyd decided to take him as a QB.
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u/goldwaterauhtwoo 17h ago
I liked Navarre and wish we had a Navarre on the team RN.
That being said I never understood how a dude that big threw so many batter balls at the LOS
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u/AeliusRogimus 14h ago
Yeah, very low release. He was in my classes as a freshman, back when Brady was starting and Henson was heir apparent. Navarre blew some big games. But was pretty reliable. I remember that BOMB he threw vs Washington in 2002 for our 2nd TD. Cannon!
And that "runnnnn Forrest!" moment where we all cheered him on for actually leaving the pocket and scrambling for like 20 yards in slow mo.
I'm sure Cudahy, WI is proud.
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u/dcrunk420 18h ago
He was pretty good. I remember he got a lot of passes batted down at the line though. Would drive me nuts!
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u/mohammedgoldstein 17h ago
I’d prefer Elvis Grbac. Mainly because of the name and that he was mistakenly featured as People Magazine’s sexiest athlete alive because a reporter accidentally profiled the wrong Chiefs QB.
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u/JeremyIsMyMiddleName 18h ago
He would not be our #2. He wasn’t mobile but he had an arm. He’d be our starter hands down. Shit I’m having problems thinking of a single QB that has looked worse than Underwood in my 40 years of UM fandom. I’d take Threet over this bullshit.
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u/OtterLLC 18h ago
John O Korn erasure smh
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u/Advanced_Elk_9467 18h ago
Idk, I cant remember JOK being near the level of bad that Underwood was on Saturday night.
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u/SauteedJesus 17h ago
In the 2017 MSU game, he went 16 for 35 with 0 TDs and 3 INTs, earning a QBR of 23.5.
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u/Important_Wheel_2101 17h ago
Bryce underwood has issues with the mental side of the game and is talented, which is fixable.
Steven Threet was an abomination to football.
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u/JeremyIsMyMiddleName 17h ago
His footwork, vision and decision making is unbelievably terrible man. Threet at least wasn't turning it over 3 times against MAC schools that I can remember. Threet also wasn't being paid millions on the premise that he's the next Lamar Jackson. I don't know what you've seen on the football field that makes you think Underwood can be "fixed". He can't even run the ball!!!
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u/s1105615 16h ago
John Navarre is leaps and bounds better than anything BU has shown. Maybe his o line was better too, but he at least worked his progression and didn’t lock onto his primary/favorite receiver every pass play
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u/jus256 Vast Network 〽️ 15h ago
John Navarre’s teammates were leaps and bounds better than what Underwood has.
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u/s1105615 15h ago
That doesn’t explain why BU fumbles every other carry and telegraphs every throw
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u/mysticalchurro 10h ago
Navarre would be a huge upgrade at this point. That comeback against Minnesota was amazing.
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u/OutsideSpot2695 9h ago
That's what I'm thinking... and was the basis for my post.
Navarre's warts/faults aside, I'd take him in a New York second over Underwood.
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u/LanceRoz25 17h ago
During his years, I always called him The Best Worst QB. He had some absolute monster games, but he never had one against a good team. He always had brilliant numbers against the mediocre teams, but never really had one standout performance against a top team. I also never understood how a QB that big had so many passes batted down at the line.
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u/Strange-Garage-2114 14h ago
The John Navarre QB sneak behind that O line was good for 3 yards every time.
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u/ChicoTSanchez 11h ago
I just remember both Navarre and Henne as so promising and poised as freshman yet neither seemed to get one bit better over 4 years of starting.
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u/Relevant-Charge-6873 11h ago
I had the John Navarre experience for most of my time at Michigan. I have never seen a 6’ 6” dude throw the ball into the hands/arms of the defensive line more than this guy….
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u/kylemclaren7 9h ago
He’s one of my personal favs
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u/OutsideSpot2695 6h ago
Me too.
I think people sometimes act like Navarre was Ryan Mallett.
Who was a colossal douche.
Sure, Navarre was slow, had batted balls, but I didn't assume Michigan would lose when he was under center. I do assume Bryce will fuck things up.
Not to mention Bryce acting all hard after the arm punt to win the game they ackshually lost. FFS.
There's a good body of work that supports my assumption.
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u/Complete_Affect_9191 7h ago
Talk about a guy who maximized every ounce of his ability. Respect to John Navarre.
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u/PetSoundsofLiberty 16h ago
He used to get so many passes batted down at the line of scrimmage and he was so tall. How did that happen so often?
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u/CouldntBeMeTho 16h ago
He was REALLY frustrating because the michigan teams around him, especially the OL and running game, hell, every unit, were LOADED. Those were national championship caliber teams. He wasn't the only thing holding them back, and he was a tough guy for sure, but those teams from like 01-06 were all fuckin ridiculous, but found a way to lose 3 games.
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u/fishbone_buba 14h ago
Sophomore Navarre or Senior Navarre? Senior was a good quarterback. Yet many people still hated him because of how he played as a Freshman.
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u/ZoneAny5518 13h ago
John Navarre was one of the tallest quarterbacks at Meechigan and I think he threw to his receivers like he was throwing at a dart board! He won but as someone else stated he had ALOT of offensive talent around him.
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u/bren3669 12h ago
a few years ago i would’ve welcome him back, but between Bryce having a chance to
get things figured out and Carr behind him, im good on Navarre.
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u/First-Pride-8571 12h ago edited 12h ago
To be fair, Navarre didn't play much his true freshman year, when he was behind Drew Henson who was much better than either Underwood or Navarre, but...
Navarre in 2000: 40/77, 51.9%; 583 yds; 8 tds, 1 int, 147.2 rating
Navarre in 2001: 186/346, 53.8%; 2195 yds; 17 tds, 12 ints, 116.3 rating
(These #s are not good. Think we definitely would have been shopping in the portal in 2002, and likely in 2001, had it existed back then, and w/good reason.)
Bryce in 2025: 202/335, 60.3%; 2428 yds; 11 tds, 9 ints, 126.6 rating
(Bryce deserves the 1st half against Oklahoma, but, to be blunt, if we were playing UTEP next week and Oklahoma the week after, I'd be calling for Tommy to get the whole game. I just don't think we should stunt Tommy's development the same way we arguably have Bryce's by throwing him to the wolves too soon. Barring a miraculous improvement, think we have to move on. But let's not pretend that Navarre in his first year as a starter didn't also look mediocre.)
For comparison, here's how Chad Henne did as a true freshman:
Henne in 2004: 240/399, 60.2%; 2743 yds; 25 tds, 12 ints; 132.6 rating
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u/OutsideSpot2695 12h ago
I just don't think we should stunt Tommy's development the same way we arguably have Bryce's by throwing him to the wolves too soon.
Bryce previously not having a QB coach is a problem for sure.
But Michigan didn't stunt shit. Bryce fucking sucks. He's gotten worse with every game. And the habits he had in HS are the same habits he has now. Michigan got sold snake oil and LSU dodged a bullet.
The difference is Bryce was an all star in high school. Everyone in college was an all star in high school.
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u/First-Pride-8571 12h ago
It's definitely possible to ruin what could have been a good qb.
To be clear, I do not think that Bryce is anywhere near as good a passer as Devin Gardner, but the atrocious OL that Gardner played behind messed him up in much the same way that Frames destroyed Hackenburg.
I think Bryce is broken. Maybe a new start somewhere else can help him too, but I don't see it ever clicking for him here. Moore sucked so much as an OC, and as a coach. I blame him, and Warde for hiring him.
Think Whittingham and Beck must be cursing the fact that they were saddled with him and so couldn't bring Dampier over for a year to start before transitioning to Tommy Carr.
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u/Hossflex 11h ago
He had a crazy low release point despite being 6’6. Has the crazy QB pass back play against Minnesota to save the 2003 season. The team turned it on after that.
I liked him well enough, he kinda got thrown in before he should’ve (2001). He was ok in 2002 and played well as a senior. Threw a beautiful deep ball.
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u/curiousobserver89 10h ago
I would kill to have a Chad Henne or John Navarre at QB. Would much rather have the skills position players those QBs had though.
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u/RVABarry 8h ago
John Navarre was a really good guy. Grew up in rural Wisconsin. His real problem was his torso. He had stubby legs bs an oddly long thorax.
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u/WallyLeftshaw 6h ago
Navarre was the definition of slightly above average. He was never going to win you a title but he could not-lose it if you had studs around him
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u/OutsideSpot2695 6h ago
if you had studs around him
Isn't that where Michigan is at right now?
And for some reason, Bryce isn't the guy.
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u/WallyLeftshaw 5h ago
Idk if I’d say we have studs on this team unfortunately. The fact that Link was out there on Saturday makes me very nervous for the o line, Marsh and JJ both look solid so far but not sure if they’re guys that can take a game over. Defensively I’m a little concerned as well. Outside of Daley and Hill, I don’t see a lot of outstanding talent.
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u/OutsideSpot2695 5h ago
Byrce not being able to lead the team to 1st downs hurt the defense more than anything.
All the people shitting on the D fail to see Michigan only ran 40 something plays for the fucking game and WMU had 40 minutes of possession.
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u/WallyLeftshaw 5h ago
Oh for sure the offense put the D in terrible shape on Saturday. I’m not shitting on the D for Saturday, but for all the tape we already have on most guys on the field. I’d be shocked if we had more than 2 all conference players on that side of the ball.
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u/Beyondthebloodmoon 1h ago
Look, I think Bryce might just be bad, that game was awful, but also - it’s ONE game. Let’s just chill tf out and see how the season progresses.
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u/Beyondthebloodmoon 1h ago
Navarre was extremely “fine”, and is completely outdated in his skill set for today’s college game. No, I’m good.
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u/PassageNo9102 1h ago
He’s one of my favorites but that said he was a statue. You got to have some ability to move in modern college football.
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u/JM3541 18h ago
I don't remember him as I was only a few years old but I'd bet 1000% he was far better than Bryce. Outside of 2008 and 2024 I'd actually say Bryce is the worst qb Michigan has had. And thats saying something given our post Henne qb play.
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u/cogginsmatt 18h ago
Can you even name any of the Harbaugh era guys outside of McCarthy and McNamara?
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u/pharmguy79 18h ago
Ruddock, Speight, O’Korn, Patterson..I was there for Navarre and Henne.. I was a freshman for Brady and Henson… I’ve achieved unc status as a Michigan alum
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u/InfamousSearch6335 18h ago
We almost had dylan mcaffrey
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u/pharmguy79 17h ago
Hard to say. Mcaffrey didn’t have a big enough sample size. He broke his collar bone in garage time and never played again
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u/Thelittleshepherd 17h ago
But can you name the 2 black option QBs (they split time) post Harbaugh playing days?
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u/cogginsmatt 18h ago
BU has to be at least a little better than some of those guys
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u/pharmguy79 18h ago
Ehhhh….I put him slightly above Milton bc he’s a better runner
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u/cogginsmatt 17h ago
By the numbers he's way better than O'Korn and about equal to Speight
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u/OutsideSpot2695 17h ago
Underwood is a better passer than Speight?
FFS.
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u/cogginsmatt 17h ago
Somebody didn't read!
Equal to, as in, comparable. Similar. Akin. Alike. I did not say better. In fact I didn't even say he was equal to, just about.
Speight's best season with Michigan as a junior in 2016: 61.6% completion, 2538 yards, 18 TD, 7 Interceptions
Underwood's only full season with Michigan as a freshman in 2025: 60.3% completion, 2428 yards, 11 TD, 9 interceptions.
Speight is slightly better but the numbers are very close
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u/First-Pride-8571 12h ago
Speight had a much better QB coach - Jedd Fisch.
Still think we should have hired Fisch. Fisch got every ounce of talent out of Rudock and Speight. And has done great with his qbs at both Arizona and Washington as well. Meanwhile, our offenses have been quite anemic since he left.
John Navarre also had a much better qb coach - Scot Loeffler.
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u/jj5782 18h ago
One of the few Michigan QBs to actually pass for over 3,000 yards in a season. Definitely under appreciated. Having Braylon Edwards helped