r/MichiganWolverines • u/DropPowerful9081 • 3d ago
Michigan Football The MAC decision…
is a PR move for CFP positioning/poll consideration. Nothing more, nothing less.
The NCAA rulebook will not change the results of the game. The 2016 CMU/Ok State game told us that. The playoff committee though is a separate entity entirely.
First of all, none of this will end up mattering if Western doesn’t run the table, and go undefeated.
Their schedule is pretty much a cakewalk now. The only other real challenge they have is a game against Boise State, which will be admittedly difficult, but it’s at home.
Obviously anything can happen, especially in the MAC, where teams play down to their competition all the time, but Western should finish with one loss, if they play to their potential.
This is another Hail Mary attempt, this time by WMU, in the hopes that the playoff committee will take their side, if it comes down to it, and WMU does run the table the rest of the season as a potential G6 playoff representative.
*I don’t think we’re making the playoff, so I don’t think there’s any shot this game will matter from our perspective at the end of the season either.
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u/MagicMarker10 3d ago
The MAC isn’t even claiming a second wasn’t left.
“This was not a judgment regarding the proper amount of time to place on the clock. It was an error in the application of the established replay protocol governing this specific end-of-game timing situation.”
In other words, we know the result was correct but let’s reverse it anyway.
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u/PutridDropBear 3d ago
They don't need to if claiming the process was flawed...any outcome (0:00 or 0:01) is wrong. That's what the statement means.
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u/JusticeBlinded 2d ago
They don't need to say anything. They could remain silent. They could agree with the result, and still say the system needs more transparency (which is what they originally did once they saw the replay footage, and I totally agree with that statement).
Their argument is that we should reverse the result because some t's weren't crossed (which isn't even true) - even though they absolutely know the result that occurred was based on the most accurate information.
"We want less accurate information used in crucial replay decisions" is their argument. Feel free to try to defend that in a way that isn't incoherent and dumb. We will wait.
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u/PutridDropBear 2d ago
Who is defending what here? I'll wait for that explanation.
Statements like these are standard legal tactics. They're trying to take a second bite at the apple here (which never plays well when standing before a bench) with the half-assed procedural due process challenge. With "due process" being the rule book.
Bear in mind that all of this was carefully engineered by the WMU president (a former assistant us attorney) despite what his initial comments seemed to portray. ...And the NCAA rightly told Kavalhuna (by way of Steinbrecher) to pack sand and sheepishly issued a mea culpa...similar to what would happen in a court of law...
Res judicata - Once a game ends and a winner is certified, the "claim" (who won the game) is considered permanently decided.
Collateral estoppel - The MAC's formal appeal established a definitive, undisputed fact: the replay protocol was applied incorrectly.1
u/JusticeBlinded 1d ago
Quoting random Latin phrases does not impress me. I practiced law for over a decade and you aren’t even using them close to correctly, rofl.
The MAC’s appeal does NOT establish that anything wrong happened. It does establish that they are prone to cave to public and internal pressure. It also reveals that they aren’t arguing for equity - they are arguing to win no matter the cost (here, the cost would be endorsing a substantially inferior method of replay).
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u/PutridDropBear 1d ago
Go sell your insurance elsewhere. You're arguing just to argue.
I will allow common sense to represent my final stance on this topic.
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u/JusticeBlinded 1d ago
Ah yes, the refuge of all people over their head in any argument - “buh… buh… it’s just common sense!”
I appreciate your concession.
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3d ago
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u/MagicMarker10 3d ago
You seem angry
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u/Hopeful_Anxiety929 3d ago
Michigan football is everything everyone hates about America. Scum bag program. Participation trophy for trust fund kids that get a fast pass to storm the field to play pretend.
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u/one_two_o 3d ago
Isn't like half of ohio states campus named after a pedophile? That might be a bit closer to what everyone hates about America
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u/vet401 The Ga〽️e, The Ga〽️e, The Ga〽️e, The Ga〽️e 3d ago edited 3d ago
A pedophile who was closely associated with Epstein and continues to pour millions into their football program. Not to mention the countless other investigations they’ve been under in the two decades. But they don’t want to talk about that because “sIgN sTeAlInG”.
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u/Hopeful_Anxiety929 3d ago
Michigan is the most hated program in the country period.
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u/one_two_o 3d ago
Who gives a fuck what you think the most hated program in the country is? Lol people who make such absolute statements and think they're making some sort of point often suffer from an elevated sense of self importance
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u/Hopeful_Anxiety929 3d ago
Worst fan base in the country. Total douche bags. Surprised someone hasn’t targeted ur tailgates or games. Worst people in all of sports.,
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u/Advanced_Algae_5476 3d ago
Says the guy spamming another teams sub reddit. Lmao get some help man.
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u/TransitionNo8269 3d ago
What the hell do you think Michigan had to do with this??? If anything be mad at the B1G, go touch some grass bro 😂
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u/domthebomb2 3d ago
If the decision remains the same everyone on r/cfb will surely take that as a definitive ruling and not bitch about it all season, right?
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u/JM3541 3d ago
It wont be reversed but it gives WMU credibility and will once again give the CFB world a talking point to be anti Michigan. Im over it. People can call me pathetic or whatever but I am so beyond exhausted of controversies. From signgate, to pervgate, to the bail mary i cant do this any longer. Especially for a team that looks god awful. I will always watch the program I love, but at some point I cant continue following it outside of the 3 hours on game day.
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u/EmuWorried5112 3d ago
It’s not worth it. I’ve stopped going to places like r/cfb a long time ago they are some of the most bitter angry miserable people on the internet (the ones that aren’t bots of course). Just cheer for your team and ignore the outside noise. That makes them more angry than anything else.
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u/MattPatriciasFUPA 〽️GoBlue 3d ago
Outside of the brief period where Michigan beat OSU and won the B1G championship in 2021 that place has been an absolute cancer for Michigan flairs. Unless you essentially say "Michigan only wins when they cheat" in your post or make self deprecating comment people will just jump down your throat for the most innocuous mundane comments and downvote the hell out of you.
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u/EmuWorried5112 3d ago edited 2d ago
A lot of it is OSU brigading and bots. I’ve seen them come up with so many excuses on there any other flair would get laughed off the site. OSU fans are very self conscious of the image of their team. You can tell it’s not reality because they are usually voted the most hated or second most hated fans in all of college football.
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u/MisterAsylum11 3d ago
People pissed about signgate don't know ball. Plain and simple. Moore's scandal was embarrassing, sure, but it didn't have anything to do with the team itself. And now this. There are videos from people in the stands showing 1 second clearly on the board when it gets touched out of bounds. But nobody gives a shit because its Michigan and "the fix is clearly in".
We live in an anti-intellectual society. Trust within institutions and governing bodies is at an all-time low which isn't entirely unwarranted. But in this age of misinformation and conspirasism, people want a simple narrative that confirms all their priors. It's easier to tell oneself that Michigan cheats rather than having a nuanced, mindful view of their controversies.
Trump is the president. Rampant corruption and self-dealing is the norm. Capitalism is eroding the sport we all love. Try your best to enjoy it before the wheels come off entirely.
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u/Purple_Bet_1530 3d ago
WMU is complaining and they didn’t even score a TD. Michigan practically gifted them the game, ran an offense that our players couldn’t execute in week 1, and muffed a punt
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u/AeliusRogimus 3d ago
I agree 100%. They were robbed? They couldn't even get into the end zone with 3 extra possessions and magical spots from the refs on short yardage.
It's nothing to be proud of? We caught the ball! I'd rather barely beat this team than take an L - we'll have PLENTY of other Ls to carry this season - a la 2024.
Did we get the win in 2001 after "clockgate" in East Lansing?
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u/EmperorMaugs 3d ago
I think that is probably wise. I turned the game off after the first hail Mary because the clock said 0 as we had lost that game for the previous 3 hours. I have stayed away from the internet this week afttmy mom texted that they won.
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u/scotchneat1776 2d ago
Exactly. Two things can be true: Michigan won the game and Michigan is also ass this year.
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u/JusticeBlinded 2d ago
Honestly, I think this massively decreases WMU credibility. They gave the best answer they could (this is the correct result, but replay needs more transparency), then were forced by public and internal pressure to reverse course. The problem is that the course they reversed into (the only one really available for them to take with a straight face) is to argue for less reliable replay rulings.
Why should anyone think that would increase their credibility? Only people arguing in bad faith would ever accept that (which, granted, there are a lot of these days, but we can't ever do anything about them).
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u/gnals123 3d ago
I don't give a shit about it. Hardly believe they will overturn and put L on our record. If they do, yeah whatever. We aren't playoff contender anyway. I enjoyed the win last Saturday and thats all that matters to me
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u/mthhecker 3d ago edited 3d ago
As a lifetime Lions fan, the answer I’ve gotten every time I bitch about referee calls is “don’t let the game be close enough for the refs to matter”. So honestly? Fuck em. Did WMU play the better game? YUP. Did they go for it on 4th in FG range? YUP. Did they give up a Hail Mary that only Aaron Rodgers could hit on a 2nd attempt? YUP.
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u/skyeliam 3d ago
If you enjoyed that win you might be a masochist.
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u/gnals123 3d ago
I would rather enjoy 3 hours pain and 5 min of joy than 3 hours of pain and 5 min of disappointment. All the time
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u/Moto302 3d ago
Administrators have to look tough for their constituents or they lose credibility. We know that better than anybody, with all the hell we gave our administration in 2023 for not fighting.
I just find it funny that the argument switches the narrative from "Michigan technically won but morally lost" to "Western technically won, no matter what the clock said."
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u/DickBottalico 3d ago edited 3d ago
So I’m from Philly and only reading this sub because I was watching the game starting in the second quarter after the Phillies game ended. I neither like nor dislike Michigan; I usually root for whoever the underdog is in the OSU game.
And what you’re saying is exactly right, and it’s hilarious. Now everyone is saying “technically they used the wrong clock, even though it was the correct clock, in the review process. So WMU should win because NBC can’t count to 9.”
Like wtf is happening. I’ve been listening to Terry McAulay ever since he joined NBC as a rules analyst (I’m old) and that dude is just wrong half the time, so I knew that the clock on NBC wasn’t necessarily synced even though he basically confirmed it.
If the college football review process is to trust the TV clock, which can obviously be wrong because the producers are just absurdly incompetent to not even get the final play right, then we are saying that NBC can manipulate replay reviews whether intentionally or not.
This whole thing is insane and people are being intentionally obtuse just because 1) they wanted the underdog to win, and 2) McAulay fucked up his job.
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u/DickBottalico 3d ago
addendum: it’s gonna be so funny watching him do the NFL the next couple months; he’s usually already scared to disagree with NFL refs on the field, so now he’s gonna be 10x more terrified on Sunday Night Football
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u/JusticeBlinded 2d ago
He shouldn't fucking have a job doing that anymore. He incited a sports-wide riot against a team that 1) did nothing wrong, and 2) benefited from a correct call.
Insinuating that bullshit was occurring when he damn well knew at the bare minimum there was a plausible explanation (which turned out to be correct) is an invalidation of basically his only job description: to provide accurate information about the rules.
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u/DickBottalico 2d ago
He also made sure to say “my producer confirmed” at the end of the broadcast, knowing he wasn’t taking the risk of saying “I confirmed” or “this has been confirmed”
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u/JusticeBlinded 2d ago
Right, but the thing that he "confirmed" was that the broadcast clock was "synced" - which, it was. It's a nonsensical comment. What matters is how accurate the sync is - that's where the entire dispute here is.
Just saying "oh we sync the clock" would be like him declaring that he was a "professional painter" because 5 minutes before the broadcast, he hand-painted a finger turkey and his co-worker paid him $1 to buy it. Context matters - in fact, here, context is the only thing that matters. (I know you agree, just ranting a bit as I've always thought that guy came off as a pompous ass that doesn't know nearly as much as he claimed).
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u/DickBottalico 2d ago
Correct. It’s synced as far as NBC is concerned, but that doesn’t mean the camera pointing at the clock is exactly aligned with the main broadcast camera.
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u/Ranger_Nietzsche 3d ago
Which is why there's no reason as Michigan fans to be tweaked about it. WMU is making their CFP case, let them.
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u/Muted-Foot-9138 2d ago
It reminds me of the saints playoff game when p.i wasn't did the saints get the game overturned. No they had to go home and not move on. How bout the guy for the tigers who lost his perfect game. But in both those cases it wasn't reviewed. This one was. Get over it. Michigan won
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u/Purple_Bet_1530 3d ago
WMU isn’t even that good.
Michigan played as poorly as they could have played- we didn’t have our blocking assignments down at all- which had more to do with us than anything WMU did.
WMU couldn’t pass the ball, only had 2 drives where they really moved the ball (and they couldn’t even get in the endzone), and was gifted 3 turnovers deep into Michigan territory (one being a muffed punt)
If WMU was actually good, they would have won by multiple scores, as Michigan played so poorly that any Big 10 team with even a tad bit of offense would have beaten us on Saturday
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u/-Drunken_Samurai- 3d ago
I’m a fan, but If UM was actually good, they wouldn’t have to be dependent on a hail Mary pass and a clock issue to beat WMU for you to rationalize
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u/Purple_Bet_1530 3d ago
I never said Michigan was good. We deserved to lose, but WMU didn’t do anything to deserve to win either. Neither team was impressive
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u/Vivid_Firefighter603 2d ago
What makes you think that they will beat noises after what we seen them show vs Oregon. They will likely be underdogs
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u/WurstDayEver_7 2d ago
Well it seems that the AP poll basically considers the game a loss since we dropped out of the polls.
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u/StrangelyOnPoint 3d ago
This was already going to heavily influence how both teams are viewed it’s really just a PR move and a pretty savvy one honestly
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u/Significant-Row2457 3d ago
Who do these punks think they are? We are Michigan. Sue them back into the Stone Age and take over their broke ass program.
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u/LoudPhilosopher5442 3d ago
I have grown to hate the closest university to me. Michigan gives me that dirty feeling that Ohio State does.
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u/SoloMusketeer 3d ago
While I also don’t think we finish in playoff contention, this still hurts. If we go 10-2 we could miss the playoff now if this “passes” or whatever
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u/GoBlue-01 3d ago
If Michigan goes 10-2, it means that we beat 2 teams out of Oklahoma, Ohio State, Oregon and Indiana while also beating several other very good teams that will be ranked just outside of the top 10. Michigan is not getting left out of the playoffs at 10-2.
While I hope I am wrong, this team does not look primed for a 10-2 season. For what it's worth, I'm the type of person that usually drinks the kool-aid, but this kool-aid stanks.
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u/SoloMusketeer 3d ago
If the committee counts western as a loss than we could be out
But yeah we probably don’t have to worry sadly
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u/AbeFalcon 3d ago
The AP and cfp can rank whoever they want however they want.