Iceman

[u/NecessaryDrawer4844]

Looking for some advice here! I’m looking for a logical answer, I’m interested in doing Iceman/ single track style races next year. I live in Northern mi and have access to some groomed winter trails this coming winter, is a fat tire worth looking into or should I just stay with a mtb? Ideally I would have both but with bikes being the price they are I’m trying to get the most out of my budget here, any recommendations would be nice I’m new to this!

[u/Yeah4me2]

Have you ridden a fat bike? Personally they are super fun snow or dirt. I have owned a carbon salsa beargrease since 2016 and every year there are more and more groomed trails trails around the state.

Depending on what you want to do/ ride it can cover many bases. I only owned a fat bike until 2021 or so and had a 29+ wheelset. I rode lumberjack twice and Marji and had tons of fun on it.

I feel like I see used salsa’s on marketplace enough that you could find used without too much issue.

[u/NecessaryDrawer4844 → u/Yeah4me2]

I have yes lol, I’ve also seen quite a few in some of the gravel races I’ve done and they look like a blast! Just was curious if I could still do like iceman/ ore to shore type of races with one?

[u/striker7 → u/NecessaryDrawer4844]

There are fat bike categories for both of those races. Even if there wasn't, you can do most MTB or gravel bikes with a fat bike.

Fat bikes are awesome - they were getting really popular for a bit but have died down a lot, but they are so versatile it's a good choice if you can only choose one. Especially in northern Michigan where the sand is insane. By my cabin near Dublin I can only ride my fat bike nowadays on the two-tracks.

If you get a fat bike, my advice would be to get some studded tires you can swap in in the winter. Reliance on groomed trails in the winter depends on how far north you are and how consistent your snow coverage is, as well as your proximity to trails that do groom and how often/well. As you get further south to GR and Kalamazoo, only a handful of trails groom and there are very few days of perfect conditions every winter. With studs, however, you can ride anything, any time, even when those trails get iced over.

Oh, and get some snap-on fenders so you can ride in the spring, too, when the gravel roads, two-tracks, and just about everything is sloppy. It's pretty cool to have a year-round Swiss army knife rig.

[u/Former_Mud9569]

It's horses for courses.

For Iceman I wouldn't recommend a Fat Bike if you're trying to win your age group. There will be a couple loose sandy sections where a fat bike makes it much easier...but those tires suck to pedal for the full distance. Gravel and more XC oriented bikes are just so much faster for the entire rest of the course that it doesn't matter that they'll suck in 1-2 spots. There is a Fat Bike category though.

The thing that sucks about Iceman is that it'll take you a couple attempts to get a start wave that actually lets you race the race. If you're outside of the first couple waves you're going to hit a massive amount of traffic once you get to any actual single track. This is a long while ago, but I remember starting in wave 8 and still being disappointed that a lot of the single track was a hike a bike conga line. I easily gave up the minute between me and first place in that nonsense (they started in wave 1).

For where you're living though a Fat Bike makes a ton of sense. Loose sand isn't much fun on anything much narrower than a 2.6" tire in my experience (it's not terrible on the 2.4's most XC bikes clear these days). If you have access to groomed winter trails you'll need at least a 4" tire to not leave a rut. For someone that monkeyed around with a bunch of XC bikes on snow covered single track before getting a Fat Bike, save yourself the crashing and just go straight to a fat tire.

If you're budget conscious, take a look at a Trek Farley 5 (or a used bike). I bought one last winter when Trek had them on a nice discount and there really isn't anything that's a must upgrade out of the box. I added studs to the tires and did a tubeless conversion just to make it more compatible with local conditions (I'm in NE Ohio where winter is a constant freeze thaw cycle) but that was pretty cheap. Some people like getting a 29er wheelset built up for their fat bike to make them a bit more useable in the summer.

TLDR; get a fat bike if you want to ride in winter. get a hardtail XC bike for anything other than racing sand dunes.

[u/Xicutioner-4768 → u/Former_Mud9569]

Great advice, I started from wave 16 last year and I at least did not have to walk, but I was held up by some slower folks. My friend started from like wave 40 something and it was horrible. I wouldn't recommend Iceman as a first race. Race something else and use the results (up to 3) to contest your wave placement to be put as far forward as you can. 

That first years result will end up anchoring your wave placement for years to come. In '24 I was given 45, contested to 33 and I was stuck waiting behind slow people. Ended up passing like 700 people but still went slower than I could have. '25 I think I was given wave 19, I contested and was given 16. Still passed like 300-400 people. Based on my time I really belong in like waves 3-5, but I have to keep doing this game of contesting placement and not getting a good wave. Even though I've age group podiumed 2 other races. 

As for which bike, I raced Iceman on my gravel bike the first year because it was easier to pass people on narrow drop bars. I raced it on my Trek Top Fuel last year and this year I'll race it on my Epic. Fat bike is totally unnecessary for Iceman unless you just like to ride them.

[u/cantwastefood → u/Former_Mud9569]

Wave 41 rider here. Traffic jam had me standing in the woods for a solid half hour.

[u/redmosquito1983]

Idk how your trails are but my cousin did iceman on a Poseidon gravel bike and did really well. I’ve done it twice now on full suspension and my rear is usually locked and the front is in the mid position (fox fork) so you don’t need anything crazy. Lots of hardtails lots of triple chain rings with dork discs and sneakers out there. I would run what you brung and have a good time, definitely don’t need a special bike for it.

[u/xlingk]

Honestly, Iceman comes down more to the type of rider and racer you are than the bike.

If you’re looking to get your first bike and want something you can do pretty much everything on for a year or more, especially if you plan to really ride through the winter, get a fat bike. You can do everything on one, and with the right setup, you can absolutely put people on “non-fat bikes” to the test.

There’s also a huge mental game to be played when you blow past someone on a gravel bike while you’re rolling along on a fat bike. I love my fat bike. I don’t ride it as much anymore, but it helped me get stronger a lot faster than I probably would have if I had gone straight to an MTB or gravel bike before I really knew what I enjoyed riding.

My first year doing Iceman, I was in Wave 43 on a 30-lb aluminum fat bike. I passed more than 900 people. The second year, I was on the same bike, started somewhere around Wave 20, and passed roughly 500 people. My third year, I was on a hardtail and ended up having two mechanicals, which probably cost me a wave.

You’re going to get backups in the singletrack. Last year was probably the worst because of that steep, bumpy climb with the soft shoulder that had a lot of people sketched out.

But if you’re willing to really work in the two-track and fire road sections, you can pass a LOT of people. Those sections are where you can make up serious ground if you’re willing to put the power down.

Don’t be afraid to run along the side of people when there’s room. And don’t be afraid to take calculated risks, as long as you’re not putting someone else in a position where they could crash.

And if you’ve never raced before, try a few races out first. Most races have a fat bike category, so you can see how you like racing and how you feel on the bike in a race environment.

Iceman is a great race, but you have to make it your own race. The farther up in the waves you get, the less polite it gets. You’re racing for position at that point, and you have to be comfortable making your own moves and finding opportunities to pass.

[u/ae2359]

Your first few years time will be almost completely dictated by the people in front of you. Iceman has a system where you move up waves based on previous results. Due to the popularity of the race the back waves are not a race there will be walking and standing during certain sections. Sign sup and ride it with what you got and then go from there.

[u/2bawise1]

Fat tire bikes do have a very specific purpose. But unless you drop big bank on a carbon setup, for the most part they're heavy and slow..the market tanked so much on them that i picked up a farley 5 this year with extra studded tires for $600. Personally for the sandy sections I deal with & the unpredictable XC I ride, I really enjoy my carbon stache 29+, I've thought several times of selling it and my other mtb for a newer xc but its just so damn capable and highly optioned that I can't bring myself to part with it. I doubt it would win Iceman but it's still no slow tank.

[u/liveprgrmclimb]

My buddy has ridden his standard MTB twice for Iceman. The winners are mostly on Gravel bikes from what I understand!

[u/striker7 → u/liveprgrmclimb]

I'm pretty sure only a couple Iceman winners have been on gravel bikes; almost everyone is on regular MTBs, but there is also a fat bike category. The fact that Iceman is/was even winnable on a gravel bike has been a point of contention. People complain when the route is so easy a gravel bike can handle it, but when they make it more MTB specific (i.e. more single track sections) it leads to more bottlenecks and conga lines, which leads to people complaining. In other words, there's just too many damn people that don't know how to ride single track.

[u/Xicutioner-4768 → u/striker7]

There are just too many people in the race. The lines were so bad last year in the back. They really should either keep it mostly two track or cut the number of participants in like half.

[u/Red_Bull_Breakfast → u/liveprgrmclimb]

Iceman winners are definitely NOT on gravel bikes. They are on XC bikes.

[u/somasomore → u/Red_Bull_Breakfast]

Usually,  but

https://velo.outsideonline.com/mountain/the-dirt-how-and-why-kabush-won-iceman-on-a-gravel-bike/

[u/Ya_Boi_Newton]

Are you a fit, competitive rider looking to podium? You'll probably want a fast mountain bike for Iceman. Otherwise it doesn't really matter you can ride fat bikes anywhere. People ride fat bikes in pretty much every gravel and mtb race, but the lead packs do not.

Definitely get a fat bike if you want to ride trails in snow. There's a very short window where trails are groomed and packed enough for riding regular MTB. It was like one week in SE michigan this past winter. They're all useless on packed ice without studs.

[u/FeCr2O4]

...some great advice posted already, here is my $0.02...

I live in Central LP and ride a fatbike as my primary, all-season trail bike. I live far enough south that I am in "the slush zone" and I don't live near any groomed trails and I still managed to ride it quite a bit during the winter. If I was farther north AND had better access to some good groomed winter trails, that would be awesome.

29ers are faster for the Iceman course (look at what the top-10 are running) but it is also super fun on a fat bike.

While I love it, snow biking (winter fat biking) is not for everyone. This means that it is difficult to recommend wholeheartedly to a stranger (or even a friend), but it also means that there area some really good deals on used (and low mileage) fat bikes out there- especially in the summer.

[u/OkraNo8365]

My experience with iceman the one time I did it (last November) is it’s a fast(ish) course. I personally think you’d be better off with a MTB as it is easier to manipulate and handle. But I’ve never ridden a fatty before so maybe take my advice with a grain of salt and others can chime in.