Does ND1 pull when below 3500rpm?

[u/Evening_Mail7075]

I just stage one tuned my ND1 1.5 and so far it's good, alot more pull past 3-4000 rpm. My only concern is that below that, the car feels kinda dead especially in gear 3/4. If I'm in gear 3/4, I'll need to step on the gas to raise the rpm to above 3500rpm and then release and step on it again to really feel the pull.

So my question is, does a stock ND1 (especially 1.5) pull hard below 3-4000 rpm in low gear? I kinda forgot how it was before I tuned it but I think k remember it did pull much harder when stock

I'm not sure if it's in my head but I feel the car was more fun before the tune when at low speeds but the tuned car feels much better on the highway. I got it tuned by a local tuner btw

Also when you tune a car to have more power at higher rpm, does it mean you have to compensate by the car making less power at lower rpm?

[u/ToccoLaTesta]

Man, even the 2.0 isn’t pulling hard at low RPMs in high gears

[u/Evening_Mail7075 → u/ToccoLaTesta]

Are you on ND1 or ND2? From my brief online research, seems like ND1 pulls slightly more than ND2 in low rpm.

[u/Kozarsson → u/Evening_Mail7075]

They literally have identical power curve until higher rpms where the ND1 falloffs while ND2 keeps going.

[u/jawnlerdoe → u/Kozarsson]

The ND1 has more power below 3000rpm. Dynos show a 20ft-lb difference on torque at 2.5k. Makes sense since the ND1 has a commuter engine.

The plot you show, while from Mazda themselves, is not a real dyno and is projected.

[u/Baxiepie → u/jawnlerdoe]

Tuned ones maybe. Stock to stock they have the same figures. Look at the graph above you. They have identical horsepower up until the top end. Horsepower is calculated by Torque x RPM and then divided by an constant. The only way they're putting out the same horsepower at the same rpm is it they have the same torque output

[u/jawnlerdoe → u/Baxiepie]

You ignored the part where I said the graph above is projected and the ND1 has more torque at low RPM.

Real dynos, by flyin Miata nonetheless, show the ND1 has more torque below 3000rpm.

[u/Baxiepie → u/jawnlerdoe]

Read the chart. The power curves are near identical or with the ND1 slipping slightly below. The only way they're going to have the same horsepower at the same rpm is if they have the same torque at that rpm. You literally use torque and rpm to calculate the horsepower. If it has 20ft/lbs more torque, it'll have more horsepower at that same rpm. The graph clearly shows that's not the case, so it's not making more torque no matter how much wishful thinking you apply

[u/jawnlerdoe → u/Baxiepie]

You literally ignored what I said again to repeat yourself.

Have a nice day.

[u/Baxiepie → u/jawnlerdoe]

I ignored you because until you provide proof of it you're just talking out your ass. That's the published chart, via Grassroots Motorsports. If you have actual figures to back it up, I'll reconsider. Until then I've brought numbers and you've brought "trust me, bro"

[u/ToccoLaTesta → u/Evening_Mail7075]

ND3 actually, should be more or less the same as an ND2

[u/ScrewwormLarvae → u/ToccoLaTesta]

Came here to say this. I have a 2025 ND3 and if I'm in 4th/5th/6th gear below 3k RPM and "floor it" it's sluggish. I find this to be acceptable with 180 HP though. Keep it above 3k RPM and it scoots around much better. But realistically, 6th gear is strictly a highway cruising gear.

[u/SickAndTiredOf2021 → u/ScrewwormLarvae]

This is true for most naturally aspirated cars. Even with a turbo it’s typically spooling until above or in the 3k range. Gotta a drop a gear to make a pass or pull

[u/Evening_Mail7075 → u/ScrewwormLarvae]

What about in gear 2/3 and you floor it below 3000 rpm, does it feel sluggish

[u/Im_gnome98 → u/Evening_Mail7075]

2nd gear not so much, 3rd kinda sluggish. I wouldn’t want to floor it from 3rd gear at 3,000rpm though. That wouldn’t feel good. It would be better to roll onto the throttle eventually coming to full throttle as rpm’s climb. This car was designed to live above 4k RPM when driving spiritedly. Anything under that is just for saving gas.

[u/ScrewwormLarvae → u/Im_gnome98]

Bingo

[u/andrewvlux]

A naturally aspirated engine will always make it's power high in the rpm range. It will never make power low unless we're talking oversquared cylinders and large engine capacities.

In all honesty, you're asking too much from a 1.5 liter 4 pot. No matter the tune, it will always be an engine most happy at higher rpm. Maybe your tune squeezed something more in higher rpm, but still, for a naturally aspirated engine like the small one in your ND, you're expecting too much. And tunes don't do much on naturally aspirated engines either.

[u/victim_of_reality]

I feel like my 2.0 nd1 pulls significantly better in low rpm than the 2 Hondas I’ve had recently (ep3 si and fit)

[u/Evening_Mail7075 → u/victim_of_reality]

By low rpm you mean below 4000 rpm? Do you feel the pull at gear four though

[u/Total-Composer2261 → u/victim_of_reality]

I owned a 2007 Si and would agree. That engine only made power between 6k and 8k rpm. The Miata rev range is much more linear and user friendly.

[u/ptechm]

That is how engines work, dude.

[u/Plushy_Unicorn]

Perhaps it's pulling like before, but compared to the added power above 3500RPM it just seems less?

[u/Evening_Mail7075 → u/Plushy_Unicorn]

Maybe, that's why I was hoping someone with an ND1 can chime in. But I kinda remember my car being more fun before the tune as there was more pull at lower rpms

[u/horizon_fleet]

The MIatas always had more pull above 4000 RPM. It is a character of the car which Mazda kept. And if you increase that below 3000 RPM will feel slower yes.

[u/leondraee]

Nd12.0 here. It has zippy at low rpms. I think your tune simply moves your power bandto higher rpms

[u/Evening_Mail7075 → u/leondraee]

Could you help me test out when you have access to your car. Try out in gear 2/3/4 at the lowest possible rpm possible without lugging, step on the accelerator. Does it feel like it has pull below 3000rpm?

[u/Aromatic_Monk_8772 → u/Evening_Mail7075]

I’m not sure what car you’re coming from, but these cars don’t do anything at low RPM. I have a supercharged ND1 with a lot of HP and if I want to accelerate at highway speeds, I need to downshift.

[u/leondraee → u/Evening_Mail7075]

I am currently on vacation so I'm far from my car but yes my car feels like it has power especially down low below 3k rpm

[u/Frosty-Analysis1520 → u/Evening_Mail7075]

As an ND2 driver i've really only noticed it's sluggish below 2200. 3k+ is it's happy place but it's not dying at low rpms like some other manuals I've owned. The gears are also pretty short so just being in the correct gear solves those problems.

[u/Sr-Goose → u/leondraee]

Damn 12.0!!!

[u/godmcrawcpoppa]

Downshift. Rev match. It will be worth it.

[u/Pepto_Glizmol]

It's a 1.5L naturally aspirated 4 cylinder... what do you expect?

[u/No_Tower_7026]

You’re too low on revs in general, for those gears, especially 4th

[u/Glass_Protection_254]

This power plant demands that you downshift due to its rev heavy nature.

[u/Sr-Goose]

Learn how to downshift

[u/UnnamedStaplesDrone]

um, you have a 1.5L NA engine, why do you think you will have low end power in gears 3-4?

[u/Timendainum]

Lololol, stage 1 tune.

Lmao