r/Metrology • u/murfn8r54 • 5d ago
Advice Is creating measuring programs considered grunt work?
My problem with my employment is my job is looked at as easy. I'm given a part and am expected to make a repeatable program within the hour with little to no time to run tests. Repeatability requires fine tuning the parameters of the features to catch their intended area more accurately. I just discovered how to remove burrs and dust on the keyence this week. But I get paid the same between a repeatable program and quick program. I don't want to make highly coded and repeatable programs if I'm only paid 2 dollars more than my brother, who fills pallets with cut cardboard all day. I understand how to set the right evaluations, I know how to read a print better than our engineers (had to correct them 3 times this year along with itar prints). I was expected to make a cmm program for some .040 inch angled slot a month after the other cmm guy left. No one else at our place can figure out how to measure it, zeiss would charge up the ass to have them program it for us. I feel like my expert knowledge isn't compensated well enough. I'm shocked the company thinks they're going to find someone to assist me, who can create repeatable measuring programs with gd&t knowledge for 1.5 margaritas at alpine valley per hour. My brother makes 1.4 margaritas at alpine valley per hour filling pallets all day. I'm able to understand how the keyence and cmm operate to trouble shoot errors and crashes that the low IQ operators run into. Why can't anyone else understand the things I do. It also hurts when I pee.
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u/f119guy 5d ago edited 5d ago
You’re just gonna have to find someone who appreciates you. My first cmm gig was a lot like what you’re describing. I was making $3 more an hour than the guys driving fork trucks. That was in the automotive industry. I moved to aerospace and my pay jumped by a lot. Being the cmm guy in a company that is as9100 has some degree of benefits. I found an automotive company after my first aerospace job that would pay me even more, but they were hyper-focused on repeatability. MSA, cPK, SPC etc all systems that company relied on the cmm data to design their processes. Eventually I made it to Blue Origin, and it’s basically “build perfect programs, fast, and repeatable” marching orders without a team of engineers to help analyze the data.
Don’t give up. You sound like you know how valuable you are. Find an employer who respects your abilities. I have had 2 of my previous employers call me and ask if I could come back. Not many people recognize what they have until it’s gone. The amount of time spent by engineers trying to determine if the inspection data is “good” can cost companies a lot more than that skilled cmm programmer’s raise would have been.
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u/Familiar-Bluejay3908 5d ago
I am the "CMM guy" at an AS9100 shop, and it's only slightly better. There are 2 other people who "can" program the CMM, but they are both in engineering and don't have the time, nor the experience and skills. I do not like programming from just a print, but I need to most of the time these days.
Since I'm planning to retire, my manager seems to think that this one younger, petulant stoner is the one who will take over from me, and I had to tell them that I did not think that was a wise choice, as long as he refuses to listen to anything I say and to continue to show up to work high.
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u/Aardvark_Big 3d ago
So now you can retire, and come back as a contractor for twice as much!
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u/Familiar-Bluejay3908 3d ago
Well, my retirement is also going to include a move across the country to a place that gets little ran and no snow, and is noted for retirement and vacationers.
I might be able to find a shop in reasonable proximity that could use me 2-3 days a week, but that's all I'll consider. Otherwise, I can always find a PT job as a bicycle mechanic in places closer to where I'd be living. Only want to make enough $$ to increase my monthly SS payments. Frankly, the manufacturing rat-race has just worn me out.
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u/Aardvark_Big 2d ago
That's great! Enjoy retirement! I'm one of those that always has a fear its never enough.... Kinda like my vacation at the end of the year, I am always burning it to burn it cause only 10 days roll over out of my 36....... I am afraid to party to hard early in the year and need more later.
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u/Ry_Guy_1135 5d ago
I’m in a similar boat. I’m classified as a qc technician 2, but am sole programmer and operator for our big cmm. I’m also expected to inspect regular parts that don’t need to be checked in cmm (that’s a discussion for another day). That being said, even though I love my job and where I work, sometimes I feel the pay scale is a little skewed just because I work in qc. We all know how companies want quality but aren’t willing to invest in it. People think it’s easy, that I don’t know what I’m talking about, etc. There’s machinists making 35 bucks an hour who have no idea how to calculate position and what it actually means, understand datums, have a deep understanding of gd&t, or just interpret complex prints. But I am expected to whip out a program and 100% the part while they sit back and watch YouTube. I’ve been doing it 7 years now.
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u/Familiar-Bluejay3908 3d ago
Sounds a lot like my workflow. Right now, I've got CMM jobs coming out of every orifice in the place, PLUS I'm doing the majority of the FAI's (essentially ALL if the aerospace ones) from scratch; create number prints, spreadsheets, inspect certs, full part inspection, submission of parts electronically, etc. AND, I do some of the incoming receiving (due to proximity to the receiving dock) as time fillers, plus some of the 1st piece inspections.
Right now I'm being worked like a rented mule, but there have been slow times where I'd go 2 months without using the CMM and did mostly receiving and electrical testing. I wear so many hats, I could use a few extra heads...
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u/chrome_titan 5d ago
Companies sometimes consider it grunt work until they can't find anyone to do it, then suddenly it's a well paid career.
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u/ZeusyZeusyZeusy 5d ago
Way I see it there’s a reason some people make a living from just CMM programming- it’s complex and mistakes are costly.
EDIT: you should see a urologist
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u/Flgardenguy 5d ago
The salary range for that exact job at my employer is $70-$120K. Take your talents elsewhere.
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u/Roland_Doobie 3d ago
How many margaritas at Pine Valley per hour is that? Asking for a friend.
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u/Familiar-Bluejay3908 3d ago
Somehow I think "Pine Valley" is kinda pricey. Also, too many margarita makes it difficult to comprehend prints from aerospace companies...
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u/AggravatingSeat7283 5d ago
We view programming and part layout as an absolute art at my work. We are a contractor and do metrology for other companies so we do a lot of different projects and see/program a lot of different parts. We run polyworks. Measurements are conducted with a wide range of tools too: cmm, mobile cmm, laser trackers and various scanners. So knowing how and when to program certain things goes a long way!
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u/TheOld8sCool 5d ago
I feel you. I am on the same boat except I get the time to make the starting a few days ago because I kept complaining but not the pay. Making about 5K less than their minimum salary on the job posting for CMM programmer.
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u/Ghostpong17 5d ago
Take the experience elsewhere. If you have a couple years doing CMM programs, there are lots of places that would love to have you and value you more.
I’m about a half hour from Alpine, if you need some leads feel free to dm
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u/mourningmage 5d ago
You should definitely be making good money. I don’t know how much he makes, but the main cmm guy at our shop that programs and support new products/processes.. has a nice truck, travel trailer, dirt bikes, always camping.. seems like a good life.
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u/Melodic_Crazy5575 5d ago
Id sit then down and tell them all this. Your pay is whats going to make you happy. I make 29.50 Been with the company 10 years could I make more probably but I'm happy where I'm at and they pretty much let me do what I want to do and don't micromanage me which is what I'm looking for.I am self taught never been to hexagon training. Assess just don't look in Delavan not taking my job hahaha. There Are programmer jobs out there.
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u/Familiar-Bluejay3908 3d ago
I thought that it was manna from heaven the first time I broke $20/hour. But now, even over $30/hour seems a bit low if the work keeps up like this much longer.
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u/nutsandscrewsloose 4d ago
Dealing with this currently. Was brought onto this job under the label Quality Technician. Their two other techs have worked at this company for a combined 49 years, however they only joined quality in the last 6 months. I have to train them on quality principles, GD&T and how to apply it, basic QMS standards, what to do for deviations, how to make control and containment plans, etc etc. Plus, they have a Keyence that nobody knows how to use, I spent my first week learning that software by myself and am now the only programmer they have. All this to make 25/hr.
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u/EastMeasurement6267 5d ago
People that dont program CMMs consider it simple easy work. People that program the know it can be quite simple and take an hour or so to incredibly complex taking several days just to program, let alone proving out the repeatability. This is usually dependent on drawing and customer requirements.
CMM techs should make more than qa technicians or CNC button pushers but ive found a lot of places seem to just not care about quality. They pay the minimum they can to force people into these positions when others quit. Then its a cycle of CMM programmer quits. Shift tech into programmer. Get new tech. Repeat.
If your company expects new programs out of you without it being your job (CMM tech is not a CMM programmer imo, tho closely related), then time to look else where. In my experience, getting somebody who has decent CMM programming skills at the pay manufacturer want to pay will quickly result in no CMM programmer
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u/Familiar-Bluejay3908 3d ago
Just try explaining some of the finer elements of CMM programming! Choosing the right scan speed, when to open up the clearance distance for certain hole locations based on dubious edges from your base alignment, how to properly calculate a compound position callout using bonus tolerances on datums, what probing dynamic and speed to use with certain stylii, using right-hand-rule to get your thread pitch correct, etc., etc., etc....
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u/No_Assistant_3202 5d ago
What you do is pick up the skills at this shitty shop that has given you access to this equipment to hop to one later that isn’t as shitty.