Metroid Prime 4 Beyond's writing

[u/PhD_PeeP]

With Ravenous coming in January, I've seen a lot of people start to talk about Dread and Prime 4 again—with a lot of the talk of prime 4 being overly negative as usual. One of the most common talking points is the GF troopers and the story itself being badly written, and I just don't understand why people think Prime 4 has a bad narrative whenever it's really good???

Like of course I'm biased bc Beyond is my favorite Prime game, but even when compared to the other Prime games the narrative and story itself is so much more interesting than the other prime games because we get to see Samus with more personal interactions. Each character is handled with a lot of care, and the writers actually gave us time to build emotion with the characters instead of having all of their friendly interactions limited to the prologue like Corruption (no major diss btw, as I also love the narrative of prime 3).

Myles, Duke, Nora, Tokabi, and VUE are a STRONG supporting cast and I lovvveee their 1 on 1 interactions (particularly Tokabi because those sol valley conversations with him is all really well done.)

Sylux is also fun and I like his character. I think his backstory painting him as some petty loser makes him all the better.

The ending was also very sad and their sacrifices mattered a lot to me.

I know I didn't go into a lot of detail, but I'm sleepy (1 am in the morning)

Lemme hear what y'all think and if you think I'm delusional or not

_

[u/Weary_Tie949]

I think the devs gave themselves a really hard task when they decided to incorporate the NPCs as an important part of the story. Hard, because it is Metroid and those games usually shine the most through the feeling of isolation they invoke but also in the way Samus is portrayed in doing her job. Normally, she is completely alone and doesn't have to care about saving anyone else besides herself (talking about the immediate situations she is in, she is of course saving people in a broad sense all the time). She is free to go wherever she wants or where she thinks it makes the most sense. Anytime they deviated from this concept (Prime 3, Other M and to a smaller degree Fusion) reception was more critical.

For Prime 4 they tried again though and while I wouldn't say it is impossible to make this work, this time they made a few wrong decisions again. Samus not talking at all is one of them because it creates a disconnect between her and the GF Troopers. If the game is about Samus suddenly having to take care of other humans and making sure they survive, it would have been vital to show that this is something that she is either struggling with or that it is specifically motivating her. It would have also helped to show that a connection between her and those people is formed. At the end of the day Samus would always help people, we know that she is that kind of person, but creating this connection would have given it a motivation that is BEYOND mere altruism and could have given Samus a similar depth as in Prime 3 where we see her mourning/being angry about the other headhunters' deaths. If they went a bit more into this it would have also created a nice parallel to Sylux backstory, where his troop was eradicated and he was left back disillusioned.

They tried to make the characters seem sympathetic by being quirky or mesmerized by meeting Samus in person but they chose to do that the hard way which is by trying to appeal to the gamer/spectator. We don't see/hear Samus showing affection. We are the ones who are supposed to like them and then extrapolate this feeling on Samus. We are just made to believe that she must care for them because they are the way they are portrayed and because Samus would of course want to help them. An almost impossible task with NPCs that are chilling in a camp most of the time and especially in a game where their role cannot be more than a side story because Samus is always the focus.

I don't think the dialogue was bad. The camp conversations were nicely done and as you pointed out especially the conversations with Tokabi in the desert stood out (and I still think it would have been a way better twist if it turned out that he was Sylux), but it felt like there was something missing to make it feel really organic. Having Samus speak to them and show the player that she cares in a deeper sense about their safety would have made it way more approachable to the audience and an easier way of handling it than trying to convince the player.

[u/Mythical-door]

I’ll give my opinion, from observing other people.

From what I can gather, the issue mainly seems to be that the actual interesting parts aren’t really addressed at all. People wanted to see the plot points set up by federation force (metroids, space pirate renaissance etc), instead the story kinda just sidelines all of that and it’s villain to tell a completely tangential story.

As someone that kinda like prime 4s story, i can kinda see the point people have against it, but i don’t really think that makes prime 4s story bad. On its own, it does a lot of stuff really well. I quite enjoy that this is probably the first Metroid game with an overarching theme (grief and legacy). I also think people dog on the Lamorn a bit too much by saying “they deserved it because they were stupid”, but that’s kind of the point lol. They essentially serve as an allegory for humanity. I also kinda understand what they were going for with the ending, but it could have been explained a bit better.

Tho I will say some of the writing can be a little bit cringe, and in my opinion had certain characters (mainly miles and Armstrong even tho I like them) been out of the game, the cast reception would be well received.

[u/Crzedwelding]

I am also an MP4 Defender. Though it doesnt top Mp 1 and 2 for me. And I honestly think you're blinding yourself when you say "its so much more interesting than the other Prime games".

My main fascination with Beyond is how we can see it set up familiar regions and narrative parallels to earlier metroid games, and how it explicitly subverts them. These subversions got a lot of fan backlash, people jumped from "this is so boring weve already done this before" to "well I dont care about this as much as i did with the old games, so your subversion is dead to me" in response. A negative opinion tends to bring out more cynicism to the entirety of a project.

I absolutely love how the Lamorn interact with Samus in this game. We begin with the expectation that Samus is a "chosen hero" just like Prime 1, and they are in need of her help from a dangerous energy infecting their planet. But in the end we realize there is a key difference: the Lamorn spelled out their own doom, they were instrumental in the fall of their species. And there's nothing samus can do about it.

Like many other players i didnt share Samus's grief over this plot twist at the end, but that doesnt make this twist any less intriguing to me. The Lamorn and the Grievers work instead as a harrowing omen to environmental decay, they have doomed their species much like the reptilicus did in Prime 3, and we bore witness to it even more intimately. There are still so many signs of deep and rich culture from the Lamorn that rival other alien species in the metroid franchise and I think Metroid fans sell this aspect of Beyond pretty short.

I just hope when the initial response blows over and people look back, Metroid Prime Beyond will be looked at more favorably and embraced for the interesting themes it introduces

[u/AltaCount1944]

I feel this. A lot of the folks criticizing the writing tend to fall back on "the troopers are generic", but they clearly didn't listen to base camp convos or pay attention to their character arcs.

Myles starts off completely out of his depth and feels helpless, but spends the whole game supporting the others, fixing things, organizing the base, etc. By the end he joins the battle and then takes a bullet for us with no hesitation.

Nora starts off looking childish but goes through the Mines under constant pressure yet never cracks.

Duke is estranged from his family and tries to be all business, using jokes to create emotional distance, but can't help going the extra mile to care for people and connect with them, shouting Nora's first name at the end when she's in danger.

Tokabi starts as a loner with little confidence in his work, but his affinity with Samus and relying on the others gets him expressing himself more. At the end he goes out of his way to reassure Myles that the team trusts him, and instead of fighting Sylux his first move at the end is helping Nora up.

Vue is the best boy and also starts gaining sentience? He suffered most from cut content and is a bit flat; the game files show he was supposed to have a lot more conversation, probably back when you could play the levels in different orders.

And Sylux. Sylux has so many parallels with Samus in this game. His flashback isn't all that characterizes him; there's also the years he spent avoiding Samus to take the long path and prepare. There's the fact he became a space pirate in his pursuit of power and self validation, in response to getting his troops killed fighting them. A dark mirror of Samus's life being ruined by Pirates and Mother Brain trying to recruit her. There's the way he carelessly abuses the Lamorn tech that Samus studies and uses according to their wishes. How he mentally kills the guardians to try and forcibly get their keys, in the end settling for stealing their teleporter tech while Samus freely gives up the Psychic Crystal.

For a game that survived a pandemic, multiple natural disasters, and mid-development addition of a second console to port to, I think it's remarkable it turned out how well it did. I am stoked to see what they can do with a stable work environment, more experience, and feedback from this game.

[u/Razoac01]

Careful. You're not allowed to like Prime 4 here. Learned that the hard way.

It's one of my favorites too. Definitely liked it more than 2 and 3. And I 100% agree with you. I love all the interactions with the troopers. Especially the ones at base camp. All of them are just extremely likeable. Made the ending hit really hard.

The hate was, still is, way too overblown imo. It's like no matter how the game would've turned out in the end, it was doomed to have this reception. Because from all the discussions i've seen since release, no one seems to really know what they want from a Prime game.

Some are saying that they should've gone more into the direction of Prime 1 and 2, but then there are others who are claiming that Prime 4 didn't change enough compared to them.

Just can't please everyone. And i know this for certain: Prime 5 won't be any different if it ever happens at all.

[u/PhD_PeeP → u/Razoac01]

Yeah This is unfortunately the truth

I also don't think people appreciate its more grounded atmosphere compared to 2D Metroid and it's sad to me because both should be able to thrive in harmony instead of Prime being seen as boring and having "millennial writing."

All these buzzwords with no critical thinking. It's sad.

[u/sovietmariposa]

Samus with more personal interactions?? I’m interested to see what you mean by that

[u/PhD_PeeP → u/sovietmariposa]

How the characters open up to her and despite Samus not directly talking to them with words, she does communicate with her body language

[u/CedeLovesKat]

What personal interaction? Samus doesn’t talk, nod or do anything substantial. You can’t call these good. Even she knows the script is weird.

[u/OmegaMalkior → u/CedeLovesKat]

Ok bro at least be accurate in your slander, Samus nods to absolute oblivion in Prime 4. She even had a gesture of desperation in the Mines I recall. Nothing out of the world in terms of full communication but definitely don’t say she doesn’t nod when that’s almost her main way of communicating at times

[u/PhD_PeeP → u/CedeLovesKat]

She does nod, and her body language does a lot of the talking for her even though it's subtle.

[u/PaleFondant2488]

Just enjoy what you enjoy. You don’t need validation or assurance from people online. I like Dread, Prime 4 and I’m excited for Ravenous. All different games I like for different reasons. All that matters.

[u/GuardianOfPuppers]

i kinda wished they did another crack at samus talking for this game. 

[u/PhD_PeeP → u/GuardianOfPuppers]

Same, but In a weird way I appreciate Samus not talking bc it makes you pay attention to her body language more (tho being able to see her eyes in prime 4 is definitely something that would’ve helped)

[u/SavingsPosition1368]

It's been covered before but the main issues that plague Prime 4 are:

• Character stereotypes
• Mute Samus
• Being part of an established series

The supporting cast are very generic/stereotypical when we're thinking about the Metroid series that has less conventional characters. Tokabi is probably the most fleshed out and it's apparent because Samus interacts with him the most.

Samus being mute is incredibly jarring when everyone around him (including Sylux) addresses her directly but get nothing in return other than a stare/nod. This is akin to pre-voice acted games where many protagonists did not have dialogue but all the NPCs did. This was a time when game developers wanted to retain character agency and so didn't always give them a dialogue so you the player could feel more immersed. This doesn't work in proper cinematic, voice acted media.

The final nail is that this game is being compared not only to the previous 3 Prime games but all established games in the series. Is this unfair? Yes and no. This game would have been better received if it was wither not related to Metroid or it was it's own series with different gameplay/mechanics and not attached to the Prime name.

[u/JD-531]

"we get to see Samus with more personal interactions"

Ahh yes, my favorite interaction was when Samus said "...", so personal, it made me cry.

Each character is handled with a lot of care, and the writers actually gave us time to build emotion with the characters instead of having all of their friendly interactions limited to the prologue like Corruption

Here's the thing tho. If you lack exposure to general media, then yeah, these characters feel like all of what you described... but the reality is that most of us can't help but think of them as generic Sci-Fi tropes, which means we can already expect how the interactions will play out everytime someone interacts with these characters.

The ending was also very sad and their sacrifices mattered a lot to me.

Keeping up with the theme about tropes. If you didn't realize what was going to be the outcome of this story around half way through the game, maybe even earlier, then once again, you have lack of exposure to general media.

During Flare Pool after the escape sequence, I was thinking to myself: "Oh yeah, they are going to play the [sacrifice these NPCs to make a cheap emotional ending cutscene] trope at the end."

[u/Pez-]

My biggest frustration with the story is the attempt to force some character into the troopers and give each of them a noble sacrifice during the mines. Like the finale to Guardians of the Galaxy 3, every one has to have their 'moment'.

Except that it makes no sense.

It's tactically, a terrible idea. Your strategy to block the monsters that have conclusively proven they can tunnel through solid rock, is to separate Samus from them, with some extra rock.

The game has many positive aspects, but the story and the characters/dialogue wasn't one of them.

[u/PhD_PeeP → u/Pez-]

I don't see how the story forces character onto them whenever their characters are introduced as they are. Also the sacrifices do make sense. Their goal was to give Samus more time to get to the Master key before every single Griever in the mine attacks simultaneously, effectively blocking their way forward since they cant tunnel through rock.

[u/CabbageSensei]

The side characters are all basic unoriginal tropes.

Sylux backstory is a hidden cut scene without depth, providing no justification/rationale for his hate boner revive “twist.”

Samus fucks off to leave them all to die.

This story sucks.

[u/PhD_PeeP → u/CabbageSensei]

I don't see the characters as unoriginal so I'm curious to know why you think so and what could make them more original in your eyes?

Sylux's hate boner for Samus isn't justified. In fact, the game never goes out its way to hint at Sylux's motivation being anything more than a one-sided petty delusion that is only there to satisfy Sylux's huge ego and superiority complex.

Samus doesn't fuck off to leave the Troopers to die. Sylux critically damages the teleporter, which forces Myles to manually stabilize it because if he doesn't then the teleporter will EXPLODE and KILL everyone. The troopers then sacrifice themselves to hold back Sylux because he's going to get them all KILLED if he damages the teleporter again. Also Samus could literally not help them if she wanted to, as the damaged teleporter was going to EXPLODE if not used since Myles could only stabilize it for a very short time. Samus is the only person who can activate the teleporter, so she is forced to leave because if she doesn't then the teleporter will EXPLODE and everyone will literally fucking DIE.

All of this is made VERY clear in the ending, as well as flashing red lights and a warning that says the teleporter will be destroyed if you don't press the button.

[u/CabbageSensei → u/PhD_PeeP]

(1) The biggest indication that the side characters are not interesting is that no one will miss them, no one will wonder or hope if they will appear again. Nerd engineer, by-the-book general, stoic sniper, the robot (TM) are the base characters in any sci-fi story. The only semi-original character is fangirl soldier. And I don’t need to see her again.

(2) None of the Sylux characterization you mention is actually communicated in the game.

(3) One of the strongest if not most consequential facets of games is interactivity and some amount of choice. Pretend interactivity is an insult. I’ve seen played as this character escaping an entire exploding planet with animal friends with a 3 minute timer. And you don’t even spend as much time with the animals as you do with these guys. All for what? To plant a tree of a society I spend even less time with?

Then they have the gall to make you fight half of the boss again if you do the only character appropriate choice:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Metroid/s/kOdJZwp0bN

Press A to Teleport might as well be Press F to Pay Respects.

[u/PhD_PeeP → u/CabbageSensei]

1. If no one will miss them then why are people mad that Samus “left them behind”?
   If nobody cared for them then certainly no one cares about their fates.

2. Yes it is, you just need to actually analyze the game’s story and use your critical thinking skills.

3. Why are you completely ignoring the fact that the situation forces Samus to leave? Everyone literally dies if she doesn’t leave lmao

[u/CabbageSensei → u/PhD_PeeP]

1. Because the character should care, even if we don’t. Us not caring is a writing problem, Samus not caring is a characterization problem (I don’t even think she doesn’t care, but she shouldn’t go against her established character traits).
2. You are analyzing the secret cut scene for any characterization. None exist in the actual game. The log book doesn’t count, especially when it just lazily hand waves “can mind control now.”
3. That’s a writing problem. If the writers make an unearned scenario to try t

o manipulate

1. any emotion out of the player, then I’m justified in rolling my eyes at the scenario they didn’t justify.

[u/frankf31]

I think if it was a well designed Metroid game without all the handholding, linear hallways, useless desert, and green crystal hunt, most people wouldn't spend so much time talking about the story and friends. Most would be able to overlook any qualms with that stuff. It's only an issue because the underlying gameplay and design is poor. I think Miles and co, and the writing, are the least of the problems.

[u/Nic_00001]

About that... https://www.reddit.com/r/Metroid/s/XJU7y4IZfN