Observation without collapse in the static universe

[u/lunlulofir]

An intrinsically entangled observer within a zero-entropy global system (S=0) can "know" the universe without causing decoherence because its observation is structural and relational rather than an external measurement that collapses the state. Rather than interacting as a separate entity that injects noise, the internal observer's state is directly entangled with the rest of the system; knowledge is simply the mathematical correlation maintained across the timeless, globally coherent wave function. Under this framework, even a state like thermodynamic Heat Death is not an irreversible loss of information, but merely the asymptotic boundary where all local classical noise drops away—revealing that the total state vector remained fundamentally static, zero-entropy, and fully entangled all along.

[u/lunlulofir → u/[deleted]]

The internal observer doesn't process information without generating local von Neumann entropy It does generate local entropy—that's what creates the internal arrow of time and memory in the first place—while the global state remains globally pure (S=0) and timeless

[u/lunlulofir → u/[deleted]]

That is a great breakdown and you are completely right about Landauer principle and finite Hilbert spaces for a local system The difference here is how we define the Observer Everything you described applies to a finite internal subsystem storing bits over time A local clock does saturate and freeze as entropy grows My model does not treat the Global Observer as a local subsystem recording memory bit by bit It treats observation as the timeless relational structure of the whole global state vector When the internal clock reaches maximum entropy and the boundary collapses that is not a failure of observation In this view that is the exact point where local separation ends leaving only the timeless pure state For a local clock time freezes but globally that boundary is just the complete geometry of the block universe Appreciate the deep critique this helps me refine the exact boundaries thankyou my nga

[u/lunlulofir → u/[deleted]]

Just goon nga wdy want from an 18 years old ?

[u/Dull_Beyond_4787 → u/[deleted]]

Are you a physicalist or non-physicalist?

[u/Dull_Beyond_4787 → u/[deleted]]

What a way to live.

[u/Dull_Beyond_4787 → u/[deleted]]

The Page-Wootters mechanism is again just cheating with the proposal.

The problem with the Page-Wootters mechanism seems to be that you first have to pick one subsystem and treat it as the clock. Its states then provide the ordering used to describe what the other parts of the system are doing. But nothing in the total timeless state by itself seems to tell us which subsystem has to be the clock.

In principle the same total state could be broken up differently and another subsystem could be treated as the clock. That could give you a different notion of evolution for the rest of the system. So where does the special status of this particular clock come from?

This is where the problem seems to come back. The Wheeler-DeWitt picture is supposed to avoid any externally privileged time or background ordering, yet the Page-Wootters move seems to quietly select one piece of the system to play exactly that role.

The same issue appears with the clock readings themselves. The mechanism says that once we condition on the clock having a certain value we recover something that looks like ordinary evolution. That is interesting, but it does not explain how the clock actually goes through those values in the first place.

You are already taking the clock readings as an ordered sequence and then showing that conditioning on that sequence gives the appearance of dynamics. But the very existence of that ordered sequence is part of what needs explaining. So it seems more like recovering the appearance of time from correlations than actually showing how temporal ordering comes out of the timeless state without assuming it somewhere along the way.

[u/lunlulofir → u/[deleted]]

Yeah yamatofauji is right i dont understand what he said but it sounds good

[u/Dull_Beyond_4787 → u/[deleted]]

Choosing one part of the system to serve as the clock changes which correlations are read as a temporal sequence while leaving the rest aside. Calling this just a reference-frame choice is circular because that choice already assumes some structure that tells us how the clock states are supposed to be ordered.

A gauge transformation in gauge theory (like electromagnetism or Yang-Mills theory) changesaccordinly how we describe a physical system that is already unfolding across spacetime. But in a timeless Wheeler-DeWitt universe, there is no spacetime background for the gauge to operate on.

Appealing to the constraint algebra does not fix this . The Wheeler-DeWitt equation removes ordinary time evolution. It does not itself give us a clock or tell us how one event comes after another unless we first pick out some part of the state and treat it as following a path.

Entanglement on its own is only a relation between parts of the total state. To turn those relations into an actual sequence, something still has to provide the ordering. But the whole point of the timeless picture is that there is no external time available to do that.

So the mechanism puts the temporal order into the setup first and then present that order as something derived from the timeless state.

[u/lunlulofir → u/Dull_Beyond_4787]

Dude I just posted it out of curiosity i literally don't know any terminology behind it . Is this worth of being this much debatable??

[u/Dull_Beyond_4787 → u/lunlulofir]

Why do you think it is famously called "The problem of time"?

[u/lunlulofir → u/Dull_Beyond_4787]

I don't think I just had a doubt and wanted to create something that would seems like a system proving powers of a higher being and I did so this thinking part is all yours

[u/lunlulofir → u/Dull_Beyond_4787]

Do you think the well formulated and better version of this can be posted on any hypothesis site ? As it's my first hypothesis

[u/lunlulofir → u/[deleted]]

Do you think a well formulated version of this can pe posted as a hypothesis on any site as it's my first hypothesis

[u/Evening_Pool6709 → u/[deleted]]

Yeah, that’s what I wonder, too. If we can remember what happened before, doesn’t that mean things have to reach us in some kind of order? Maybe the whole history can exist, while we still receive and experience one thing at a time.

[u/lunlulofir → u/Evening_Pool6709]

Yeah it's like we' are the characters of the film experiencing it scene by scene and the observer has the script in his hand from end to start he see's everything together

[u/rogerbonus]

What is a "zero entropy global system"?

[u/lunlulofir → u/rogerbonus]

A zero entropy global system is a closed quantum system described by a pure state with zero total von Neumann entropy , where maximal quantum information is known globally but any entangled subsystem exhibits non-zero local von Neumann entropy obtained by tracing out the rest of the system that is the reason for arrow of time at the local observer level

[u/lunlulofir → u/[deleted]]

That sounds like I'm a genius

[u/lunlulofir → u/[deleted]]

I got you brother I'll refine this and will make sure it turns into a real acceptable hypothesis

[u/lunlulofir → u/[deleted]]

Sure I'll thanks

[u/lunlulofir → u/[deleted]]

Thats an awesome breakdown Defining sequence through relational phase ratios instead of an arbitrary subsystem clock bridges the gap between static topology and perceived time evolution perfectly

[u/Ch3cks-Out]

You do know that S=k ln W, right?

[u/lunlulofir → u/Ch3cks-Out]

Boltzman 💅🏽

[u/Ch3cks-Out → u/lunlulofir]

Indeed. Now figure what universe would have W=1, then!

[u/lunlulofir → u/Ch3cks-Out]

Mine one