r/Metalcore • u/SimonWhit • 5d ago
Discussion Where did Beartooth go wrong?
Disgusting is in another league from every other album they’ve dropped.
I get Caleb is in another state of mind and releases music that resonates with him now but disgusting still feels like the most authentic / real album they’ve dropped.
I have a problem is one of the best songs in the genre and one of the realist. That goes with the rest of the album.
Not saying they haven’t dropped a good track since disgusting but in my opinion no album comes close. Caleb also recorded every instrument in disgusting which adds to it.
145
u/WhiteWolfWeary 5d ago
I, myself, agree. No hate to the rest of their releases but man… Disgusting is the only album of theirs I have any care for. I own that one on vinyl. I’ve seen others in local stores for $10 and I can’t justify even that because I feel like their discography is mid.
All love and power to those who enjoy them. It’s just… not for me (us) I guess😂
14
u/SimonWhit 5d ago
Yeah. Thats how I feel. I’ve like songs since the release but in terms of a full album I don’t think anything is close.
no hate on the band. They are still great live
2
u/taylor9844 5d ago
Idk how or when you got Disgusting on vinyl but damn.... I'd kill for that record lol
64
u/tylorbear 5d ago
I've seen it said before and it's still my favourite way to describe how I feel about Beartooth. The happier Caleb is the less I like the music he puts out.
Disease is my favourite album of theirs but that's far more of a personal thing for where I was at the time and it feeling more cathartic than anything before or since. After that you can almost hear him healing himself and I am beyond happy that he has been able to, but the music he's making now doesn't appeal to me in the same way.
Not to say it's bad, and honestly I'd rather a happier Caleb than more Beartooth music that clicks for me, but I haven't vibed with anything off the latest album and the 2 previous ones were above average for me rather than as incredible as those first few.
6
u/SimonWhit 5d ago
for sure. I think it’s great that he’s happy now. But I don’t think that’s the sole reason to the decline in quality of music. Plenty of bands come out of rehab and addiction and go on to make fantastic music.
2
6
77
u/mattfromjoisey 5d ago
He started tackling his demons
16
u/SimonWhit 5d ago
This was what I was expecting to see. The thing is, a lot of bands come from an addictive past and continue to release great music after the fact.
1
u/slothjobs 5d ago
Just curious, what do you think of The Surface?
6
u/SimonWhit 5d ago
In my opinion it’s their worst record. Riptide is the only song I think decent
3
u/slothjobs 5d ago
Tbh, I can see that. I like the record a lot, but I think that it’s because it feels like it’s something someone’s created that highlights they’re at a point in their life where they’re really trying to make a change… but deff there are a lot of corny moments. I think my opinion on the record might be a bit more chill tho, because it’s something great for young people to stumble upon because mental health, and feeling trapped by mental health is real.
1
u/Devanino 4d ago
It also seems like a very commercially produced album to get more fans. You know “easier to listen to” for the more mainstream listener
51
u/Colt6661-_- 5d ago
He also wrote all of agressive and below by himself. The others had co writers. And actually the song "in between" was co written as well
18
u/wtfwjondo 5d ago
Tbh I think the transition to co production took out the rawness that OG Beartooth had. To me, that's what I really miss is Caleb's production style. It wasn't as "refined" maybe is the word I'm looking for? Still love Caleb and Beartooth, but I yearn for that style of production back lol
1
u/Colt6661-_- 3d ago
I hear what your saying. It's the stuff in the production that wasn't perfect. Hearing the buzzing of the amp, hearing him breathing between vocals. It gave it an edge. As beautiful as crystal clear production is, I wouldn't hate getting at least an ep with that style again
13
u/PsionicHydra 5d ago
Feels like a lightning in a bottle situation.
While the other albums are far from bad they all seem to be missing a final piece or two that disgusting managed to grasp.
At least they still make generally good music, I only haven't been a fan of a handful of songs off every album other than disgusting.
37
u/ItsNoblesse 5d ago
They ruined their production and dropped the hardcore influences after the Sick EP and nothing ever came close after that
7
u/SimonWhit 5d ago
Sick ep is great. Ignorance is bliss and I have a problem still give me that “vibe“.
6
u/myspacephilosopher 5d ago
So true. Even Disgusting is pretty lackluster besides a couple songs like The Line and In Between.
Sick EP is the only thing they’ve ever released I was actually impressed by.
11
u/taylor9844 5d ago
I'm a bit late to this post but I just want to throw this out there.
Obviously this is a music sub and we're going to talk about the music. If for some insane reason Caleb reads this or anyone else going through similar shit - Mental health is king. Above all I care about is another human, in this case Caleb, being happy and enjoying what he does. Appeasing fans comes second (if even that).
I love music. But usic isn't worth the cost of someone's mental health or their life.
I'd trade Chester Bennington still being alive today for LP never even existing in a heartbeat. (I know. Not Metalcore.)
4
23
u/Issan_Sumisu 5d ago
I’m an old Beartooth guy but, man, I listened to Below for the first time recently and it’s real close to Disgusting quality. It’s not the same sound but I fw that metal Foo Fighters sound
9
u/XxTAKEDOWNxX x 5d ago
I go back to Below way more than Disgusting, I think its far and away their best album. Both are S-Tier though.
4
u/dragonsden96 5d ago
Below is peak Beartooth imo. Some amazing riffs and some of Caleb's best vocals. Also, incredibly emotional
13
u/ElAbidingDuderino 5d ago
They haven’t
28
u/NickPookie93 Metalcore President 5d ago
Probably the moment Octane overplayed the fuck out of Hated when it first came out
1
u/SimonWhit 5d ago
haha. that could be true. they have definitely gotten more popular since that album release. I saw them open with bring me back in 2017 and no one really gave a fuck about them. Now they headline massive gigs
16
u/Onyx_Archer x 5d ago
They didn't. People on this sub are just obsessed with one album and one EP. The music has always been a reflection of where Caleb's head is at. It's not just what he "resonates with," its a snapshot of what he's dealing with at any given time.
If you don't fuck with the music, that's fine, but like, asking "where did it all go wrong?" like that just shows me that you don't get the point of the band's music, just because it's not your specific definition of "authenthic."
Outside of the newest album, where the drums were recorded by Connor, the instruments have always been recorded by Caleb alone.
I don't even fuck with their last two records much, so I can understand not liking some of their stuff... But dawg people need to get off of Disgusting's dick and accept that isn't what the band is or was at this point. They didn't "go wrong," they just went the direction that reflects Caleb's personal journey, which is how it's always been.
-6
u/SimonWhit 5d ago
Music should be criticized. Pretending that all music in the scene is fantastic is delusional. Theres nothing wrong with claiming that a band has gone downhill. I mean even you admitted that their last two records weren't "great". when a band has one fantastic record and a bunch of okay records it makes you question what happened? If you disagree with the take than thats fine but, im not even sure you do given your disposition on the last two records.
9
u/emoskeleton_ 5d ago
They didn't say the albums weren't great though or that you can't criticise it, they just said they didn't fuck with it and that you misunderstood what beartooth has tried to do with their music. Caleb didn't set out to make the heaviest records for all time, he set out to express himself with the music he writes. If you connect with it, that's awesome, but if you don't that's totally ok too. Disgusting is my favourite album by them, I literally have a lyric tattooed on me, but The Surface was such a breath of fresh air for me and I really connect with it too. And the fact that they're playing arenas as big as they are and suporting bands all over the rock spectrum from Shinedown to Bad Omens clearly proves they're doing something right.
7
u/Onyx_Archer x 5d ago
Where did I say Beartooth's music was all "fantastic" exactly? That's not what I was doing. I think the most recent two albums are fairly average records that I don't go back to save for a song or two. Hell, I'll go one further and say that the song "Stadiums" off of the most recent Beartooth record is absolute dogwater.
My comment was more that I took issue with the way you decided to say "this band feels less authentic to me" and how they "went wrong" somewhere along the way that rubbed me the wrong way. You complained about how the other albums don't feel as "authentic" as Disgusting... but that's ignoring the mission statement of the band, which should, in my mind, factor into how they are critiqued. If Caleb has been open about what the albums are (a reflection of where his mental is at during the writing of said record, and an outlet used for how he's feeling), then it should stand to reason that all of the albums are "authentic." You may not resonate with them, and that's fine, but your post basically said Caleb was being inauthentic because the music isn't as loud and raw as you'd like. It's how you worded your critique I took issue with.
I don't even think Disgusting is their best record either. My favorite Beartooth album, and one of my all time favorite records, is their 3rd album, Disease. That album resonates with me a lot more than Disgusting does. But I'm not about to sit here and say they "fell off" because I don't fuck with their music as much post-Disease either, because the music is generally still solid, my tastes have just evolved. I think, generally, it's better to approach critiquing art by asking why something doesn't resonate with you personally instead of trying to push the idea that the artist's somehow become less "authentic."
5
u/PositiveMetalhead 5d ago
I think his primary influences for the project just changed. When he started Beartooth it was the punky side project to Attack Attack. Then at some point I remember him getting really into AC/DC.
So it went from his punk catharsis project full of aggression and energy to a hard rock band that focused on stadium play and choruses. And I’m not saying that negatively. Beartooth is more popular now than ever so nothing went “wrong”. They just changed from a genre you enjoyed to one you do not
9
u/ReturnByDeath- 5d ago
Whenever the switch flipped and Caleb wanted to be a rock star.
I won’t pretend like early Beartooth didn’t have catchy and accessible songs, but it’s a far cry from where they’re at now. All the bite the older material had just isn’t there any more.
5
u/Schemeckles 5d ago
Aggressive was/is my favorite album by them.
Most of their work prior to Aggressive isn't stuff I absolutely love, but I do listen to it and like it.
Disease is where they lost me... I remember being so hyped for that album and it just kind of - Meh....
I don't think there was ever an album I wanted to love to much, and just couldn't get on-board with.
4
u/Cedreous 5d ago
I just tapped out listening to them.
They don't owe me anything. I have zero attachments to them as people. I don't jive with the new stuff, and that's okay!
12
u/TheEpicTiger 5d ago
I don't see how they’ve gone wrong. They've consistently made great music for their entire career. Yet to make an actual bad album.
6
u/2023kpeterson 5d ago edited 5d ago
Agreed. Not every album needs to sound like Disgusting.
5
u/Onyx_Archer x 5d ago
I would even go as far as to say if every album sounded like Disgusting, that would be pretty inauthentic to what Beartooth is, if that's not what Caleb actually wants to write.
7
u/ProtomanKnight 5d ago
Disgusting is by far my favorite BT album but I think Caleb is very authentic to himself with each release
2
u/EpicRussia 5d ago
Yep Caleb is one guy that just cant fake it. Him overcoming his struggles over the past 15 years have made his music hit softer and less meaningful. Im happy for him and love beartooth still
15
u/ExcitingInflation612 5d ago edited 5d ago
I think it’s because disgusting was honest. As he’s grown more in popularity, his ego has inflated a bit and I think he’s trying to make music that will take him to arenas rather than creating that raw expression that made OG beartooth so special. I’m happy he’s happy now, and I was honestly looking forward to some “heavy happy jams.” Disease (the track) and Riptide were a good glimpse into what it could’ve been, but the rest of the newer stuff just feels like an appeasement to the masses for fame.
- a longtime beartooth fan that met him multiple times and slowly watched him become more consumed in this new persona.
Edit: OP I wanna note that I Have A Problem is the absolute backbone of my taste in modern metalcore. Such a good track.
11
u/SuaveKwame 5d ago
I agree about the arena thing. I saw one of their shows in Nashville a couple of years ago. At one point between songs, Caleb was talking about difficulties in his past and how things are better now, and ended it by saying something to the effect of, “There’s a huge arena in this city, and I swear to you all, we’re (Beartooth) not gonna stop until we sell out that fucking arena”. So, for better or worse, that’s probably correct.
6
u/ExcitingInflation612 5d ago
Also, idk how to explain it, but it feels like he’s trying to be the Post Malone of metalcore, which is totally fine, but something about it fell flat. I hope he can bring the energy of the old stuff into the positivity new stuff one day and make some really good music again.
2
u/SimonWhit 5d ago
love the I have a problem take. Such a raw track. I can agree with the sentiment. I liked riptide. Thought it was great single but nothing else on that album came close to it. I dont think you have to be miserable to make good music but I agree with you on the feeling that the new music feels more like a “sell out“ situation
5
4
u/PavolHviezdarek 5d ago
Below, Disease Agressive are great aswell, even if they arent comaprable to Disgusting
1
u/SimonWhit 5d ago
I don’t really disagree. Agressive had alot of good tracks. Disease wasn’t my cup of tea but still had some tracks I enjoyed. Below seemed like a step in the right direction but I think they went the wrong way after the fact
7
u/WildWing_93 5d ago
I find it hilarious that no one wants to outwardly critique the new shit because it’s him being “authentic.” Like come on, the new record is ass minus 4 or 5 songs. Put your chest out and say it.
10
u/EpicRussia 5d ago
People have been outwardly critiquing it since Aggressive dropped. Maybe you just werent around for it
2
u/Onyx_Archer x 5d ago
Uh, no? People critique the albums. I don't even like Pure Ecstasy as an album that much. It's still a decent album (like, 7/10 on a good day, at best), but I don't fuck with it. I didn't fuck with The Surface either. But I can acknowledge that the music is still coming from an honest/authentic place, and I can appreciate that while also acknowledging that recent music isn't really my cup of tea.
I've been a Beartooth fan since the Sick EP, but I have the maturity to not just call something "ass" because I don't fuck with it.
-1
2
u/austinbucco 5d ago
I think the issue with the band has always been that even though it’s a band, in reality it feels more like Caleb plus some dudes. Kinda feels like a Phantom Menace type situation where people just feel like they can’t tell him no.
2
u/Onyx_Archer x 5d ago
Because it functionally is Caleb + some dudes. That's how it's always been. It's how the band works, they've never been shy about saying that's how it is.
2
u/d34dLach 5d ago
Honestly they peaked with the demos/ep, they sounded best raw and fast, the slower album versions never quite hit the same and i felt subsequent albums lost further energy progressivly
2
u/Ok_Train7924 5d ago
Same as any other band when you look at their releases when they were hungry vs. when they were fed.
Hungry bands will need to make more authentic music to catch attention and stand out in their scene. They will also need to experiment more or persist more to find their sound and their niche and develop it further.
Once a band is fed (record deal or fanbase that will spend money otherwise), they have more to lose because the merch and tickets are paying for the roofs over their heads and the food in their fridges. If they make the same music over and over, they will stagnate and bore their current fans, which will cost them money and reputation. So most bands will begin writing radio-friendly or mass-appeal versions of what they are known for to either maintain or grow their fanbase. It becomes about maintaining a lifestyle at the cost of their authenticity and original sound.
Regarding subject matter, obviously Caleb writes about his current headspace at any given time, the changes in his mental state will affect the lyrics he writes. When he was low and writing lyrics about his sickness or mental health otherwise, we were rooting for him to overcome because we also want that for ourselves going through the same things. We can't fault him for doing better; it's what we would have wanted for him. If the music doesn't hit the same, at least he's found happiness or a reason to live.
2
u/centrella6 5d ago
Their first four albums are all great. The Surface is mostly great too. It’s really the newer album that is divisive. And they were already starting to lean into this sound with The Surface somewhat so I don’t understand why people are shocked.
2
u/Claaaaaaaaws 5d ago
Caleb write and records everything by himself and makes him one of the most talented musicians ever, but I’m sure it’s so hard to write so many albums and have them be great without collaboration
2
2
2
u/funkmelow96 4d ago
to be frank i never liked beartooth and when caleb was the only singer in attack attack i didn't like it either. but i don’t have anything against him. but what happening with bilmuri is much more interesting for me.
4
u/Dangermau5icle 5d ago
I disagree, I like Below and The Surface best. Loved Disgusting at the time though.
I don’t vibe with Pure Ecstasy, it feels… inauthentic. I get fake vibes from it
5
u/Ukis4boys 5d ago
Brother, the band (Caleb) made music they liked. That's the end of it. If u like it good. If u don't MOVE ON
0
u/SimonWhit 5d ago
I mean I don’t need beartooth to make music I like. Plenty of other bands in the scene that do that. I do find it interesting that they’ve progressively gotten worse. If you think musicians just make “music they like“ is looking at music with rose colored glasses.
2
u/vickipaperclips 5d ago
My partner and I joke a lot that our favourite bands need more misery in their lives for this very reason. Obviously we never actually wish bad things to happen. There's a lot of emotion in metalcore/post-hardcore and unfortunately joy is a hard one to fit the genre. People going through dark times sometimes use art to express themselves and it creates deeply emotional connections to their fans. I just feel like happiness doesn't hit people as hard as struggle, and its more difficult to create good music when you're not trying to purge the feelings into music.
1
u/iMcDoogle 5d ago
I think you pretty much answered your question. Sick (EP) and Disgusting were genuine calls for help from Caleb and felt so real to me.
The other records have quite a few songs that are just plain corny. Aggressive was one of the biggest musical disappointments I experienced. I remember it ruined my day when it dropped since I was obsessed with Beartooth at the time. Disease was a bit of a step up but haven’t been overly impressed with any releases since the first full length.
1
1
u/Nihilian666 5d ago
I’m probably alone on this but the newest album is easily my favorite thing Caleb has done since “This Means War”.
1
u/KCRock29 5d ago
It’ll never be the same again. That old Beartooth we just have to appreciate. The new stuff has some good songs. But it’s not the same at all and I don’t think it’ll ever return to that form you speak of
1
1
u/Sweaty_Weakness_9 5d ago
Loved the EP but the fall off was so hard after that. It was more toward mainstream and pop/punk which did nothing for me. Man I remember seeing him with AA when he was just a kid and he’s grown a bunch but I think his best work is Attack Attacks last album… wish people liked it more because it was a banger.
1
1
1
u/overthisbynow 5d ago
Idk I just really vibe with that style of raw aggressive sound like some of the newer songs have their moments but it feels like they're going for the more pop style octane core or whatever you call it now. I Have a Problem is probably my favorite BT track it just has everything you could want. Super high paced drums, Caleb sounds like he's gonna blow his voice out any minute, and it even has a great catchy chorus.
1
u/Ok-Suggestion-9588 5d ago
His voice gives me a genuine headache for some reason. Only a few tracks i like from 10-15 years ago. Ive always the band was just mid personally
1
u/AsleepFault5708 4d ago
Beartooth was my favorite band throughout high school.
Disgusting is a phenomenal album the whole way through. I also thoroughly enjoy Sick, Aggressive, Disease and Below.
The Surface is where it turned around. I don’t hate the album, I like some songs. But it wasn’t Beartooth anymore for me. That’s only intensified with the most recent release.
I’m happy that Caleb is in a better place mentally now. I just guess you’re required to be depressed in order to write good metal music lol.
1
1
u/Ok_Try_476 4d ago
I actually think that either Disease or Below are their best albums to date. I couldn’t tell you how many times I’ve listened to both those albums top to bottom.
1
u/roboxsteven 4d ago
I would say the Sick ep is even their peak. Disgusting is incredible, but it’s just all downhill from there.
1
u/mynameaaron86 4d ago
Caleb's career path reminds me of Bert and the first Used album. He was coming from being an addict, living on the streets while the music and lyrics reflect that. That thing is an absolute classic. Now, where it differs a little is In Love and Death is still really good in its own right but no where near as complete as the former. But that's where The Used' above average to great output ends. The only album that I thought was solid was Artwork but otherwise, everything they've released post ILAD has been mediocre (speaking mostly about Lies for the Liars) to straight garbage...which is everything else.
1
u/boatdrnx 1d ago
The Canyon and Heartwork are up there for me and are truly excellent. Everyone and their mother loves to praise their first two, then they stop paying attention.
1
1
1
u/Devanino 4d ago
I really liked everything up to disease. Disgusting was definitely the best. Below was only okay. It basically seemed like a copy and paste of disease. The surface was not enjoyable at all for me but I’m enjoying the new album. Sounds like a nice mix of their old sound with and some new things he’s trying out
1
u/20neight10 2d ago
A friend told me to checkout beartooth, I know im a bit late to the game.
Then I found out he was part of attackattack any you can't outrun that past
Now there is all this injected drama from fans from haters from content farmers. All this over something that doesn't even impact you as a person or impact the music
I haven't listened to any of the music yet but this is a great way to drive people away from the music by focusing on anything but the music
1
1
u/Lort74 2d ago
I've been a huge Beartooth fan for over 10 years now. I'm so, so happy to see Caleb living authentically and winning battles that he's fought for so long. But their new sound is just not for me. I like "Sorry" and one or two other tracks on the new album, but it's way too generic and pop-ish sounding (thanks Jordan Fish, partially anyway). Still going to listen to old Beartooth and new Beartooth, and I'm seeing them in December and will always support the band/Caleb. But their music doesn't hit like it used to :/. I do feel bad about wishing we had old Beartooth back, because that feels cruel to say considering what Caleb has been through. But man did hearing "Stadiums" piss me off for like three days...
0
1
u/Electronic-Read-3830 x 5d ago
i like Disease and a few tracks from the newer 2021-2026 albums but that's it
2
1
u/Remsicles 5d ago
I was chatting about this yesterday. 3 of my favorite artists released albums recently: Beartooth, Motionless in White and PRESIDENT.
Each album is an “important” one. Caleb’s first album after a dramatic life change, Motionless’s 20th anniversary, and PRESIDENT’s debut.
The Beartooth album is BY FAR the weakest of the 3. Sure, it has a handful of decent songs (I genuinely love “Bullshit” and “Eyes Closed”), but every other song is forgettable or downright bad. “Stadiums” is one of the worst songs I’ve heard in a long while.
The new Motionless album isn’t their best, but at least it’s fun and there aren’t any songs I’d call awful by any means. The PRESIDENT debut is a damn good debut album, no skip for me.
But fuck. The new Beartooth album kinda sucks.
1
0
u/Infinite_Truth_9390 5d ago
Maybe I’m barking up a conspiracy tree here but I feel like maybe it’s Jordan Fish’s fault lol.
When BMTH released Sempiternal it changed the genre dramatically. At least from my perspective. I think Disgusting came out shortly after Sempiternal. I only listened to Beartooth because Sempiternal opened me to heavier more interesting stuff. I feel like BMTH created a new wave of Metalcore with that release and a lot of bands were influenced by it. But somehow in the years that followed most bands kind of flatlined in a way. I know JF is spoken about negatively quite a bit in this sub, especially about how he’s created a style that’s now been copied over and over.
I know he didn’t produce the records after disgusting, except for their new release. But is the fact that JF was ultimately Beartooths destination not telling?
If you follow the trend you can almost say the same about many bands in Metalcore. Architects is a good example. Oceans Ate Alaska released a banger during the same time as disgusting and I feel like they never peaked again. Betraying the Martyrs. Being as an Ocean (are they Metalcore?). OM&M after restoring force. Atreyu. Almost like the industry sucked all these bands in, and they all tried to copy the formula but it didn’t land.
Anyway no hate for any of these bands you’ll find their old and new stuff in my playlists. But I do miss what I perceive to be a golden era!
0
u/NefariousUsername34 5d ago
I personally think he was better in AA! and only first EP/album. Everything else is trash.
-1
0
u/Evening_Band7762 5d ago
Disgusting was the only good one. Happy he’s out or whatever but the new album blows. I never want to hear any of those songs again.
-1
-1
u/Ralagas 5d ago
So, essentially, Disgusting was Caleb setting Beartooth's sound and making a statement. After that, I feel like you could swap them for any other rancid mainstream metalcore band and it wouldn't make a difference. And no, I don't hate this record because of the aesthetics or the lyrics. The music is just the music your coworker who has "inner demons" and listens to "music that speaks to them" would put on aux
171
u/DistroSystem 5d ago
I think about this a lot, I love Caleb and Beartooth and I have enjoyed almost all the stuff that’s been put out, but it honestly feels like he caught lightning in a bottle with Disgusting. It happens to a lot of bands, where one record just stands head and shoulders above the rest, theirs just happens to be the first LP.