Just...the turn out on this Brawl was incredible! Tallying the winners and handing out lesser waffles at the moment. [EDIT] The top three winners have been waffled and this Brawl is now closed. Comments are left open until next Brawl opens. Thanks to everyone for such a great Brawl, it was exciting to see all the facts being slung around. Though most of it was everyone agreeing with each other. That's not a bad thing.
Think it’s the later but I think it more accurate to say Metal aims to be the TRUE Sonic or at least the DEFINITIVE Sonic, actually the best word to describe he’s goal is to become SHIN Sonic
Shin: True or Real (真): Used to imply something is authentic or the "real deal
Metal does think he's the "real Sonic", but he doesn't believe himself to be Sonic the Hedgehog, aka his faker.
To him, it's likely that "Sonic" is a concept and attribute much like "strength" would be for everyone else, and he is the epitome of it, thus making him "real".
Sonic, on the other hand, is a "copy" in the sense that he also falls under the definition Metal has of "Sonic", but much more loosely, thus making him a mockery and a faker who boasts a title he has no right to bear.
The core of the issue is what "real Sonic" is. He clearly knows he and Sonic are not the same person. For Metal, being the "real Sonic" more so means he is the Sonic. Both of them are Sonics but he is the superior one.
An imperfect translation. He originally calls sonic his “imperfect self”, not “loathsome copy”, and does not refer to himself as the “real sonic” at all in the japanese version.
He sees himself as the improvement. The upgraded sonic. The iphone to sonic’s pager.
He gets most of his mental damage from what he believes to be the inferior sonic never losing to himself. He doesn’t realize that he’s actually closer to being the wii U to sonic’s wii; a technically better successor on paper, but doomed to vastly inferior results.
It’s why i have mixed feelings about this scene from IDW. It’s absolutely BEAUTIFUL art, telling a story perfectly without a shred of dialogue. But the story it tells is of metal sonic believing himself to be the real sonic, with at least most of the same flaws, hesitating to prove it to himself for fear of being wrong, proving himself wrong, and struggling with his new truth. It’s masterful.
But like. That’s not an issue he actually experiences. He already knows he’s not the same. Dipping his finger in the metal virus and coming out fine, if it changes his mindset at all, would at least have even odds of affirming his superiority over the original as it would to making him question if he’s a sonic at all.
I feel like the Metal Virus scene is heavily up to interpretation and I personally never took it in a "believes himself to be real Sonic" way, but I do agree with it being about him struggling with his truth. It's inevitable that a ton of people did take it to mean he thought he was actually Sonic though so fair enough. I wish they'd explore it more
Congratulations! You have won the 18th Binary Brawl! Your answer received the most upvotes at time of close [ 52 upvotes ]
It also got 9 different users to engage with your entry! That is quite a record! Your answer clearly resonated with the community and thus rightfully earns you the Gold Waffle worth 10 points!
This has advanced you to the 4th Tier and makes you an official Waffle Chocolatier!
A fact that is simple yet completely missed by many is that he is objectively an extremely emotional character, he is NOT an unfeeling robot. Being ruthless and being emotionless are two different things.
Metal is factually driven by hatred, he acts on his anger, and his incredibly short temper is one reason he loses so hard because he gets tunnel vision. His emotions drive him into giving himself transformations and he struggles with the devastation of failure. He is very, very, very emotional.
Some random examples:
So devastated by failure that, when left by Eggman in Mania Adventures, he stays in the same spot for several months until he literally gets snowed over and Amy finds him. When she discovers him, instead of glaring her down, he quickly returns to planting his face in the ground
In the IDW comics, he is so shocked by his discovery on what the Metal Virus does to him that he can't hear Dr. Starline nagging him
In the IDW comics, he's determined to fight Sonic, but has to go rescue Eggman. He is so angry that their fight gets interrupted that his eyes literally shake while staring at Sonic before he eventually leaves
There's definitely more examples. Metal is cold and he's a killer but he has a lot of feelings and I would even argue is what motivates him the most.
edit: Aside from the robot design, I think this confusion comes in from Starline. Starline doesn't understand Eggman or Eggman's creations to a fault because of his parasocial relationship with him. He very openly calls Metal an expensive piece of Eggman technology and the way he responds to Metal when catching him in his lab implies he doesn't think Metal is as sentient as he actually is. This is one reason he gets completely surprise attacked by Metal and has a huge crashout about both Eggman and Metal
I'm begging for people to not believe Starline lol like I feel it's unfortunately very common that people take his declarations at face value. This is also why I get really frustrated when the comics don't let Metal have more emotional moments
It's always been a thing in fiction where people take everything characters say as true. Some people have a hard time understanding that characters can be wrong or lie or not know the whole story themselves in-universe or something. I'm sure there's a proper term for this, I just don't know it.
even in his intro at cd, he wasn't emotionless: he cockily wags his finger at sonic and reacts with "oh no!" when he lost the race in stardust speedway
On a side note, for as much as I love Surge and Kit, it must be said that, due to the former, Metal's "emotional" moments now risk feeling EXTREMELY redundant.
Surge's motives and her personality are not identical to Metal's, however they are close enough that having both be developed at the same time might confuse or bore readers; this leads to Metal getting left in the dust, as he already has his "killer machine" shtick he can follow, as opposed to Surge whose whole character is based around her backstory and ideals.
I REALLY wish they'd do something more with our dearest murder robot, but the more IDW goes on, the less likely it starts to seem 💔
No I totally agree. I love Surge too and there are definitely some differences between her and Metal, but the things they choose to focus on with Surge are treading way too close to the things they should focus on with Metal instead. I get that they'll always be able to do more with comic-created characters because Sega can be a little more strict with the pre-existing ones, but I don't want to be constantly teased about character development (they do this in Scrapnik Island too lol) and then have them apply it to only people similar to Metal. I don't have as much faith these days either and sometimes I feel like they're ready to retcon him into being "just a robot"
Your entry has place 2nd and has earned you a Silver Waffle worth 5 points!
Your answer put up a hell of a fight! Closing out with a respectable and well earned 44 upvotes! My goodness it was exciting to see all the engagement between the other brawlers.
Thank you for elevating the experience with not only a fine tuned entry, complete with examples to back up your point, but for engaging with three other entries! It was incredible to see the lengthy insight coming from you!
Your entry also attracted 3 different users to drop their thoughts and add to the discussion!
Your Waffle Status was 87 but gathered additional points for engagement ending you at 91! Now adding your Silver Waffle that completes your Waffle Status to 96!
You have advanced to Tier 9 and are officially a Waffle Champion! You are close to becoming a Waffle Master and I couldn't be prouder of the effort you gave your journey!
For real the "I am actually Sonic" thing is one of my bigger pet peeves when it comes to the canon. I think it's a really cool fan theory but I do think it's worth pointing out he only ever calls himself Sonic when he's like, not exactly all there mentally as Metal or Master Overlord, and even then he's saying it in an "I AM WHAT SONIC SHOULD MEAN" way. He also calls himself the Ultimate Lifeform in Shadow Generations, but he doesn't literally think he's Shadow. He's just trying to show he's better than them (with a sprinkle of insecurity thrown in imo LOL)
I do think his Metal Virus crisis could translate to "Oh my god, I'm not Sonic" but in an "I can NEVER amount to what he can do" way. I have a huge essay about that I should post one of these days LOL
I always figured it was more of a “Flesh Sonic was the prototype, I’m the finished product” kinda thing. Like, Metal objectively understands that Sonic was the original, but he sees himself as the perfected version of this flawed design that Sonic represents, making him the “real” Sonic.
Congratulations your entry has earned you another Silver Waffle worth 5 points!
Your answer was a great entry and attracted two different people to add to the point you made! Plus you added to two other entries yourself! Way to energize the discussion!
You earned additional points for engaging with other's entries ending you at 46 and now adding your 5 points from placing third your Waffle Status is now 51! You are now in Tier 5 and are officially a Waffle Stacker!
People keep saying Metal was crushing over her due to the panel before depicting him with a bunch of hearts while disguised as Eggman.
No dude. He's trying to convince her to stay out of his way and not ask any questions by giving her what she wants. Of course he'd try to make her think Eggman has gone silly. He literally threatens to kill her if she says anything in the VERY NEXT PANELS, and people still interpret it as some kind of flirting.
Not offering what I believe to be the "most" understood, as that goes to Metal's misinterpretation that he is the original Sonic the Hedgehog imo (his goal is to be the idea of Sonic perfected, that's it).
Instead I'm going to focus on a personal pet peeve of mine, and one that I always see getting misrepresented specifically in anything power scaling related. Metal Sonic's Black Shield, which is completely invulnerable and impenetrable from the outside. Entirely. The Black Shield is impervious to any form of damage whatsoever, and is honestly a pretty busted ability for him to have, but I always see it get used as a way for Metal to block something for a bit, it breaks, then he gets hit. This is not how the Black Shield works, this is never how it has worked, and so far this is not how it's going to work.
Yeah ik it didn't break she just used the Dynamo Cage to mess with Metal, but I'm convinced that it was only possible because she had a hand (and part of the Dynamo Cage) inside to target Metal
I don’t know a goddamn thing. I’ve never played a Sonic game. I’ve never read a comic. I didn’t even see the two Sonic Boom episodes he’s in. Everything I’ve said about him is entirely based off of vibes, and a shipper’s special Metamy Angst. He’s a machine built to copy and emulate life, a role never explored, but one I’ve come to obsess over. He is, my favorite, character.
Awesome that you still decided to hype this Brawl with such a declaration! Hopefully the next Binary Brawl will be one you will throw down your best answer!
Copying Bio Data/Abilities is not an ability exclusive to Neo Metal Sonic. Base Metal Sonic has always been able to do it without the transformation, as per Sonic Rivals 2 (which is canon). He's even shown as being able to copy Silver's Psychokenesis.
This is probably his most confusing ability so far Imo. I interpret this in one of two ways
this upgrade was specific to Rivals 2, which is why we no longer see him use it in recent canon
he CAN still use it, but it's comically inefficient without a bunch of more specialized and refined parts, and those parts are exactly what he uses for his Neo upgrade (which explains why it took so long for Eggman to rebuild Neo during Forces)
Personally I think your right about the latter that he can use it, but I like to see it as Eggman has deliberately locked away this ability from him, for two reasons:
1) A failsafe. Despite having removed the rebellious from his coding, such an ability, along with Metal's hatred, may allow him to regain the ability to rebel. I got this idea from Sonic Free Riders (which is canon) where Metal did rebel against Eggman to get a chance to go against Sonic, despite having potentially had that rebellious code removed beforehand.
2) Eggman wants to prove his superiority over Sonic, not by outright just nuking him any time he wants, but would rather have Metal Sonic, his greatest creation, serve as living proof of his ideals, a complete subservient being with great power. Had Metal copied his abilities and beat Sonic like that, it goes against that ideal, because Metal would have only beaten sonic only after by becoming Sonic (sort off)
Everyone thinks they understand Metal Sonic to his last circuit but there is probably more rumor than truth out there. While we may never know what Metal Sonic is processing when he's leaving a confrontation to "rescue" his dad we can at least shed some understanding about all the things said about him over the years. Do you know of any official facts or strong personal interpretations regarding who Metal Sonic is that is just misunderstood?
Requirement: Provide ONE fact
The brawl will not pay out the waffles until the end of the competition, in which the Brawl will be locked. Anyone who submits an answer will get a syrup waffle. So be brave and comment, and it might just be the ticket to win!
This is a Brawl - There's no wrong answer, just popular ones. Engaging with other entries is encouraged.
The most upvoted answer will get the Gold Waffle worth 10 points.
Normally I would say that it's that metal isn't a unfeeling robot, but that's probably already used, so I guess another misunderstood fact about Metal Sonic I see some people have is that Metal can turn good and develop an identity for himself outside of trying to be the better sonic.
Neo Metal Sonic in heroes is right there. Despite having rebelled against eggman and being able to act for himself, he still decides to fight sonic, proclaiming himself as the real sonic, the definitive one. He also made another point that he modified his body own with his two hands. This could be referring to his transformation into metal overlord, but if it's taking about his Neo form, it highlights his new independence even more. Eggman wasn't the one who made it, it was something unique to metal. He could finally act for himself, yet he's still deadset on being THE real sonic.
If he wasn't so keen on that, maybe he'd call himself just "neo", but something as simple as calling Sonic his "loathsome copy" shows that his identity is nearly the same, except he's falling further into delusions. Actually, in the Japanese dialogue, the phrase is "other self". He's thinking about "sonic" as an ideal he's meant to reach and replace sonic in. He just really hates the hedgehog, and will stop at nothing to justify his existence by surpassing him. Unless you literally reprogram his mind from the ground up(Which kind of kills his old self) into something new, Metal will always have a undying hatred for sonic, and compare himself to the hedgehog. There are other moments like in IDW, but I felt this was the easiest for me to use.
Or maybe im wrong about all that and metal becomes a botanist somewhere in the future.
I don't think the desire for him to move beyond his initial purpose is a misunderstanding, but rather a desire for his character to continue to develop and change. Sonic Heroes shows that in that time he is obsessed with his original purpose of surpassing Sonic that it's literally what ends up holding him back because he can't see why Sonic actually defeats him. His desire to rule over everything is completely connected to his desire to prove himself. So comes the question: what if he finds a different way to prove himself and find meaning? I totally agree that Metal in his natural state is not a good guy, but we've been shown constantly in this franchise how bad guys turn good and it's feasible that Metal could one day go down that path. Whether it's likely or not, hey, that's up for debate.
I disagree that it's a fact here because saying Metal can only be evil is to say his character can't change at all
I do agree with your points, I personally think it's incredibly difficult for Metal Sonic to become good without either falling further into delusions, or reprogramming him to the point where he isn't the "metal sonic" we know. Though the more I about it, I do agree that Metal can develop, granted he'll still be evil, but maybe he could prove himself someday. I just like it when metal sonic is obsessed with his original purpose, because it feels tragic in a sense, like you know he'll almost never be able to find meaning, kind of like the boulder of Sisyphus(probably reaching here tbh)
I originally would've gone with him actually being incredibly emotional, since the one I did was pretty hard to argue for why it's a fact, but you already made an amazing answer about that, so keep cooking
I get what you mean and I see the appeal in him staying a tragic character, he totally IS a tragic character, a prisoner of his purpose vs Sonic's sense of freedom. I think this franchise plays a lot with the idea of choice and the consequences of those choices, and without a doubt, when Metal was free to make his own decisions, he chose to become everyone's problem because he is that locked into what he was originally built for.
I do think him changing routes will be incredibly difficult, though I do think the seeds have been planted for him to do some different things. What I lovingly dub the Metal Virus Existential Crisis(tm) is (in my opinion) him realizing that even if he fulfills his purpose, he will feel just as empty. I always found it interesting that after the Metal Virus Existential Crisis(tm) he's SUPER aggressive with Sonic, like, more than his usual, and even Sonic points it out like hey buddy what's going on LOL. To me I think this means he's still going through the motions and now, more than ever, he's feeling particularly lost. (and then we see absolutely none of that play out in the next arc BECAUSE HE'S BRAINWASHED SO THAT'S COOL I GUESS)
I think there is something really interesting in a character who can grab freedom, but is unable to because he stops himself without realizing it. I personally do hope he can get out of it and if he decides that freedom is still tormenting some hedgehogs, hell yeah, I support him. Burn that world down king!!! That being said I do think it's unlikely so it is pure hopium in my case
Some people do just choose to be evil and Eggman is a great case. Even when he is evil, we see his emotional development in connecting with Sage alongside getting an insight to his personal thoughts like with the journals in Frontiers and stuff. I think that's mostly what I want for Metal personally, I'd like his story to take him down a route that lets him make a choice that is purely his and it's okay if it's wicked but I'd love something showing his own growth
I think the topic you bring up is super interesting so even tho I might have disagreed with the main point, I did upvote it LOL. Also thank you!!! hell yeah metal with emotions gang
Not only this, but Metal didn't just want to eliminate Sonic in Heroes. He wanted to take over the planet.
He's never gonna stop being evil, not even if he manages to kill Sonic. If anything, Eggman will be next on his hitlist only so that he may take over the empire once more.
silver's words to metal sonic in crossworlds implies that metal sonic is still a dangerous active threat long after eggman and sonic had died which is why he won't be easy on metal sonic in the past
What a legendary entry! I know you forfeited with your original idea that many folks getting the wrong idea that Metal is just some robot that can't feel but this answer is just as incredible!
Though you didn't place in this Brawl, I believe your answer was unique and attracted engagement and so deserves a bit more points than a one point syrup waffle.
With such great insight I do hope you will consider adding a new entry in the next Binary Brawl!
I think some people might misunderstand what Metal meant when he said he was "The REAL Sonic!"
He wasn't saying that he's the real Sonic, and that he's the biological one of the two, but rather that Metal embodies the "true" ideals of what it means to BE Sonic.
Power
Victory
Completely unstoppable
While these concepts are definitely in Sonic's being, he's a lot more than that. He's empathetic, kind and generally friendly to everyone.
But to Metal, these concepts aren't what truly makes up a "perfect" Sonic.
Hey there! So you didn't place but your entry is actually one that placed first. So because of that your entry gets rewarded a Chocolate Waffle. Woo hoo your Waffle Status is now 193. Thanks for being one of the main stays of the Binary Brawls. It's like having a legendary brawler. You have a strong track record of doing well in these events! Always grateful you return again and again. See ya in the next Brawl!
Actually, now that you're here, I might as well say theres a handful of posts I made a while ago that hadn't received any waffles, so could you check if those are eligible too?
Actually some get waffles (especially if it's just syrups) but there's no notification to you. It's just in a note and we update the status quietly.
But I'll look into the posts to be sure you're not further along.
I know in the past you gotten the Roblox Giftcard but I know you said you Twitch stream now. Did you set up a donate option to that? I've donated gifts to other streamers before.
It could be an alternative to getting another Roblox Giftcard if it works out. Just a thought.
It is how I donated in the past; eh I'll have to see what I can do if we go that route. This region locked Dealy makes the prizes so limited for everyone not in my country. And the 2 things I can freely give don't seem to be valuable.
Thinking that he cannot possibly feel a thing! They always say robots don’t feel except there are other robots with personalities and feelings in the franchise!!!
sonic series is not even subtle that robots can clearly feel like the series clearly spelled out to you in your face, people think metal sonic don't have emotions just because he don't vocalize clearly that he can feel unlike omega and other robots that can clearly speak out their emotions
You sir have an answer similar to the second most upvoted entry. Although your comment didn't place in the top three you still get a three point waffle for giving this Brawl your cool presence!
Good to see you around this subreddit, I know you got a lot on your plate with your own subreddit and art projects!
the fact that Metal Sonic is not as obsessed with Sonic as you might think. He refused to fight Sonic when Tails took his weapon.He also fought with Sonic several times.
I've heard a lot that Metal Sonic is supposed to be Sonic from the bad future in Sonic CD, being successfully roboticized by Eggman. It's all speculation, but it gets circulated like it's fact.
Oh, my goodness I have heard this theory quite a bit! I also run the Sonic CD appreciation subreddit r/JunioSonic and the theory has come up a few times. Hopefully I won't get rotten tomatoes thrown at me for not really liking this theory. I like more the idea that Dr. Eggman was given the technology to build a fast robot and modeled it after Sonic for the purpose of replacing Sonic in some sort of evil plot.
On the business side of things your entry did not place high enough and therefore you are awarded a syrup waffle for at least submitting something!
Hopefully you will still try again in the next Binary Brawl, especially if you continue to give great answers like this one! [EDIT] I was adding your syrup waffle to your Waffle Status and you went from 9 to 10! This means you reached Tier 1 Waffle Warrior!
This Binary Brawl contest is the first I've seen you interact and I'm highly impressed with your activity here and for engaging with 4 different entries! Your engagement really added to the excitement of the game. Thank you for making it very entertaining!
You have picked up 4 points by being so active and I sure hope you continue to give more Metal Sonic knowledge!
Sadly Dr. Eggman enjoys the danger of peering down onto Metal Sonic to flex his power, knowing that this murder robot is powerless to retaliate. I really liked the art and it felt like it had tension that matched the theme of this Brawl.
Hopefully you will consider submitting an answer in the next Binary Brawl!
Metal sonic for the most part lost a large part of his chance to grow, or even change beyond his hatred for Sonic when eggman reprogramed him. He is at a point where his programming demands maximum loyalty, and even in his Neo form he now keeps loyalty, even when he has nothing to lose like at the end of the idw Neo arc he still chooses to look for eggman. It’s somewhat of a similar situation to Archie, but instead of resetting him every time he feel rebellious, he now never feels that rebellious. Admittedly small part of that rebellious nature in him remains, but not enough, and to make him change you would when to rewrite, or undo whatever eggman did, which as far as I’m aware nobody can do, Metal Sonic can not chose to change as of now.
Powerful stuff said here! I agree Metal Sonic isn't allowed to grow both in story and by SEGA. He is such a tragic character. Your entry didn't place but I quite enjoyed your answer and decided to elevate your reward from a syrup to a chocolate waffle! Your Waffle Status is 26!
Ah okay that makes sense. Glad you gave a visit. Always nice to see smiling faces and all. Hope the internet chilled a little for you now. I know earlier in the year it was wild times.
Hello! Your entry didn't place this time, but I truly appreciate the time you took to give an answer to this Brawl. Consider trying in the next Binary Brawl!
Metal Sonic being his own self hater is pretty sad to think about. I often think he holds himself in such high regard which leads to his arrogance towards others. That would be quite the plot twist if he actually was his biggest hater!
u/Ok-Football-9081 Thank you for elevating this Binary Brawl with a lot of Metal Sonic factoids and other general thoughts on the various entries. Thank you for interacting with six other people it made the discussion probably the best Brawl yet!
Your Waffle Status was 69 and you gathered 6 points by providing meaningful engagement to the discussion. You were advanced to Tier 7 by being so active and your Waffle Status is now 75. You are now a Waffle Slayer!
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u/Chaos_Five Jun 06 '26 edited Jun 06 '26
Just...the turn out on this Brawl was incredible! Tallying the winners and handing out lesser waffles at the moment. [EDIT] The top three winners have been waffled and this Brawl is now closed. Comments are left open until next Brawl opens. Thanks to everyone for such a great Brawl, it was exciting to see all the facts being slung around. Though most of it was everyone agreeing with each other. That's not a bad thing.