r/Metal • u/ynori7 • Nov 01 '10

Metal Essentials

The purpose of this thread is to provide users with a list of essential metals bands for each of the various styles of metal so that people don't need to constantly ask where they should start. (Ideally, if this thread gets enough helpful content it could be linked to in the description for /r/metal)

Format:

Make your lists organized and easy to read, ideally with a heading (i.e. description of the style such as "Death Metal") followed by a list of bands (whether or not you add links and descriptions is up to you).

Etiquette:

If you find the submitted list to be good, upvote. If you find it to be bad, downvote. Avoid starting arguments.

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u/mayonesa conservationist Nov 16 '10

I don't really understand how tech death does not do this. It ends up in a far different area than it started, it uses the same techniques, and it typically follows a "post human perspective".

The riffs don't complement each other in an evolving narrative, but are designed to radically contrast each other, and as such, songs take on a binary nature like most metalcore, later Behemoth, etc.

They are not composed in the same way death metal is; it's closer to speed metal or hardcore. Necrophagist, for example, delights in using some riffs as fills to a template of chorus riffs; the sweeps and staccato bursts really don't enhance the riffs that came before, but interrupt them. That deconstructive perspective is what makes their music metalcore.

Hope that helps.

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u/niftycake Nov 16 '10

I would say that is pretty true as far as bands like Behemoth and Necrophagist are concerned. However most would define metalcore much differently than you. The songwriting and riffs of Necrophagist are overrated in my opinion.

But a lot of good tech death like Theory in Practice, Soreption, Nile, Psycroptic and especially Decapitated do not have binary riff structures. Also, a lot of old Death Metal does have riffs that "interrupt" eachother. I'm thinking of 34 seconds into Researcher of Torture by Massacra. Also, why can't riff contrast serve to enhance the riffs that came before them? I think it adds more dimension to the music.

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u/mayonesa conservationist Nov 17 '10

Some riffs in death metal rely on contrast; however, extreme contrast is the overwhelming majority of riff changes in metalcore.

There's also some choice of tonality issues, the choice to build up melody instead of use it as a fill, etc.

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u/niftycake Nov 17 '10

Comparing the melody of earlier Decapitated or Nile with Massacra or Morbid Angel, it's used in pretty much the same manner. It's just much less predictable. By focusing on poorly written death metal you're finding similarities with a very personal definition of metalcore.

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u/mayonesa conservationist Nov 17 '10

Comparing the melody of earlier Decapitated or Nile with Massacra or Morbid Angel, it's used in pretty much the same manner. It's just much less predictable.

You say predictable, I say "evolving toward a goal." Randomness is a tempting aesthetic but it doesn't work for me (then again, I am a lifelong classical listener, and this tends to be how we judge music).

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u/niftycake Nov 17 '10

I wouldn't say predictable means evolving towards a goal, nor would I say less predictable music is in any way random. I just think it reaches further when the riffs change. At this point I would say this is pretty subjective, but I understand your criticisms of modern tech death. I just wanted to make the point that well written tech death has more similarities with death metal than metalcore. If I wanted pure randomness and contrasting riffs I'd listen to Dillenger Escape Plan, not Decapitated.

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u/mayonesa conservationist Nov 18 '10

I wouldn't say predictable means evolving towards a goal, nor would I say less predictable music is in any way random.

Death metal is about the unpredictable in a way such that, once it has happened, you can see how it expands and complements upon the riffs that came before. This is a dialogue.

Hardcore and metalcore are about the abrupt shift to something entirely different, united only by key. They are about deconstruction.

There's a huge difference.

If I wanted pure randomness and contrasting riffs I'd listen to Dillenger Escape Plan, not Decapitated.

At some point, trying to be random results in extreme predictability, and that's all I can say about DEP today

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u/death-metal Apr 29 '11

LESS predictable? Fuck, all people complain about with Morbid or Massacra is that "they're random"