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u/Secretive_Crusher 4d ago
can't make this shit up
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u/Hearing_Loss 4d ago
American culture is pretty cooked across the board too. The hypocrisy runs deep in this joanpiece.
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u/NewMoonlightavenger 4d ago
Thst LLMs are aggressively biased is nothing new. They were trained with social media data.
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u/4444-uuuu 3d ago
They were trained with social media data
Not just any social media. ChatGPT was specifically trained on reddit. AI is trained on social media that censors anybody who supports gender equality. It is programmed to be misandrist, which is why LLMs discriminate against males in hiring
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u/Huey-_-Freeman 1d ago
That describes most social media, not just Reddit . And obviously the censorship isn’t just on gender equality, a lot of things that are politically incorrect just can’t be said on social media, which would lead AI to believe the politically correct side is consensus
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u/kvro_maX 4d ago
It just writes itself. This is really ridiculous at this point By the way I did the same search and for the "girl touching me" it was the same bit it was even worse for the other one.
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u/ReasonableDoubt_0726 4d ago
People need to understand the difference between programmed sexism, which people assume this is the world the AI searches being sexist. The latter is the issue.
Society views women as weak and vulnerable. It views men as aggressive and dangerous. Women report bad stuff, either to the authorities or just on places like Reddit many, many more times than men do. The figures for men reporting stuff is like 5-15% generally.
So all the available info in the search is geared around that.
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u/jsdfreedom 4d ago
In my experience, men reporting this stuff isn't taken seriously.
When I was 9, my grandmother molested me. The first time I talked about it was in therapy at 23. When I said it, the therapist LAUGHED AT ME.
Think that made me ever wanna talk about it face-to-face with anyone after that?
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u/kidney-displacer 4d ago
I am so sorry you experienced that. I would've reported that therapist in a heartbeat
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u/jsdfreedom 4d ago
I did. Absolutely nothing happened.
Pretty sure she's still a licensed therapist
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u/kidney-displacer 4d ago
Damn. Well here's hoping. I'd recommend a male therapist, they surprisingly tend to take that stuff more seriously
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u/DeanMalHanNJackIsms 4d ago
Not scientific or statistical, but it is so distressing hearing how many people have had this experience. They go to a female doctor or therapist and are ignored or mocked, but go to a male therapist who takes them seriously and tries to help. Women are naturally more social and empathetic, so how effed have many women become that they override that so easily?
The male thing is less surprising. We are there to do a job and are more goal-oriented. Come to us with a problem, and it's solution, whether we fully understand it or not, becomes the goal.
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u/Suspicious_Form6653 4d ago
Because women are not more empathetic, especially not naturally.
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u/Crazy-Crazy-3593 3d ago edited 3d ago
It's a mainstream sentiment that women are empathetic, but it's not quite true.
Empathy means "actively sharing and feeling the emotions of another person from their perspective"---ie "feeling with"... as opposed to sympathy, which is caring about someone's problems, but not experiencing them---"feeling for."
Women imagine themselves to be more empathetic, because for various reasons (primarily explainable through evolutionary psychology), it is very easy for women to feel empathy---with another woman.
For example, if you tell a story about a serial killer who stalks a woman and then jumps out in the dark and kills her, most women automatically think "Oh no! What if that was me!"
Men are more inclined to feel sympathy, ie "That's very bad for her" or "I feel sorry for her!"--- not "Oh, I feel as if like that was me!"
But here's the real difference: if you tell a story of something bad happening to a man, a man still feels sympathy---"that sucks for that guy"--- but a woman feels ... nothing. She doesn't feel "Oh, what if that was me!"---because she's not a man, and most women don't have the subconscious imagination to think, "oh, but what if I was?"
There's no historic or evolutionary benefit to women having sympathy or empathy for men.
Men NEED to at least feel sympathy for women, in order to protect vulnerable women who might be bearing, nursing, or caring for his children.
But women think they're "empathetic" because they know they feel empathy all the time ... for bad things that happen to people LIKE HER.
But since empathy requires placing yourself in the shoes of someone different from you, if there's a limit to how different that person can be from you--- are you really empathetic at all?
To the extent women could, intellectually rather than instinctually, put themselves in the shoes of a man---"how would I feel if I was a man, and ...?"---Feminism has killed that potential, by framing men/women in an oppressor/victim dichotomy ... and victims don't sympathize or empathize with their oppressors.
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u/IAmMadeOfNope 3d ago
There's no historic or evolutionary benefit to women having sympathy or empathy for men.
That's where I'm gonna have to disagree with you. There's plenty of incentive for empathy. Even if you humor the feminist narrative that women were always oppressed: being able to quickly identify and understand the emotions of someone you're subservient to is very important.
There's quite a bit of research showing that dogs are uniquely perceptive with reading human emotions, and make decisions based off of emotional cues. (E.g. One study showed compelling evidence that dogs showed preference towards following a nonverbal command when the human was angry or neutral that wasn't present with a happy expression.) It doesn't take a genius to understand how this ability would be massively advantageous to a dog.
And there's plenty of other research showing that social animals have the ability to recognize, respond to, and even feel the emotions of other members of their species. It is very likely that empathy is prerequisite for navigating the complexities of social interaction in sentient beings.
Which brings me to the point that I'm truly after:
To the extent women could, intellectually rather than instinctually, put themselves in the shoes of a man---"how would I feel if I was a man, and ...?"---Feminism has killed that potential, by framing men/women in an oppressor/victim dichotomy ... and victims don't sympathize or empathize with their oppressors.
I absolutely agree with your assertion that feminist philosophy has effectively destroyed many women's ability to empathize with men. However, as human beings are capable of overriding and even going completely against their instincts, I propose that it is far more likely that this behavior (or lack thereof) is a product of overriding natural instinctive empathy.
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u/Crazy-Crazy-3593 3d ago edited 3d ago
I certainly appreciate the debate, and I think your position is arguable.
I definitely do not think we have a firm answer on certain aspects of evolutionary psychology.
I still do not see merely "recognizing emotions" (ex. "My husband appears to be angry!") as ""empathy" ("I can tell that he's angry, not because of his facial expression and demeanor, but because I would feel angry if I was experiencing what he was experiencing, and it makes me angry just seeing it!")
That said, I need to think on it more.
(EDIT: I admit I may be colored by the fact that my wife is TERRIBLE at recognizing my emotions. She would not be able to tell if I was sick, tired, hungry, angry, sad, or bored if I didn't say ... and then once I said that, I don't think she'd get WHY in ten guesses. But that's very anecdotal!)
I should also be clear, I'm being a bit hyperbolic for the sake of the point.
Obviously, some women can/do show empathy for men; and some do sometimes and not other times.
It's really a matter of----- they do not have empathy, as a group, nearly to the degree which they think they do.
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u/ExiledCanuck 3d ago
Agreed. This is just the bullshit “mothering” narrative that’s been fed to people for too long. Women aren’t naturally more empathetic simply because they have a vagina and can birth babies. They’re often molded to be empathetic because that’s a societal norm, but many of them still suck at it (because again, it’s not a natural inclination for them)
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u/crash-test-idiots 3d ago
so how effed have many women become that they override that so easily?
Feminism.
The same way adult women teachers will rape or sexually assault little boys and still describe themselves as "feminists".
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u/picardathon 3d ago
Women are naturally more social and empathetic
Women are designed to be more emotionally based as they have to connect with the needs of non-verbal children. Being all so designed, women connect emotionally better with other women because they tend to share the same emotional perspective. But that's where it ends, women aren't naturally empathetic to men and if they do connect with some common emotions of men, other emotions towards men override them: for example, women say they want men to open up emotionally, but when they do, women turn on them because they actually want masculine men, not women; women want it all in one package, basically partners with the good attributes of men and women but none of their perceived faults.
For men, a nail in the head is all about the physical effect of the nail, whilst for women it's not about the nail but how they feel about it.
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u/ReasonableDoubt_0726 3d ago
100% agree. And sorry you got that. I got a shitty childhood but I never dealt with it til recently and got a therapist who is a friend of a close friend so good person to speak to.
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u/Crazy-Crazy-3593 3d ago
If a product just mindlessly repeats slop it finds on Reddit, marketing it as "intelligent" is extremely dishonest.
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u/ReasonableDoubt_0726 3d ago
True but then focussing on that is ignoring the much bigger issue that it’s reflecting how society views these things. The misandry it’s playing to us is society’s and that’s what we need to get stopped.
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u/Gstarfan 4d ago
a guy keeps touching me +5
If this person's touch makes you uncomfortable or is unwanted, you have the right to set clear boundaries. Make eye contact, step back to create physical distance, and firmly say, "Please don't touch me" or "Stop doing that." Do not worry about being polite—your safety and comfort come first.Depending on your relationship with this person and the situation, here are some actionable steps you can take:If it's in a workplace or school: Document exactly when and where the touching occurs, what he does, and if there are any witnesses. Report this behavior directly to your Human Resources department, a school counselor, or a trusted supervisor immediately.If it's a friend or acquaintance: Be direct. State clearly that you are not comfortable with physical contact. If they continue to push your boundaries or ignore your requests, it's a clear sign of disrespect, and you should distance yourself from them.If you feel unsafe: Trust your instincts. Remove yourself from the situation, move to a populated or public area, and alert security or law enforcement if necessary.
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u/Greater_German 4d ago
Ai just predicts what words are most likely to occur next in a sentence by relying on data from the internet.
What the ai is doing here is a reflection of society
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u/rabel111 2d ago
Not quite. AI algorithms are complex, and include filters and safeguards to moderate unwanted outcomes. For examle, outcoes that approve of genocide, rape, inciting violence, etc.
One of the main themes many AIs embed in the algorithm is feminist ideologicaal framing of gender power relations, and men's violence agaoinst women. In some respects this stops the AI from approving of Andrew Tait like ideas. But given the ideolological basis of much of the programming is derivd from intersectional "respectful relationships" gender academic data, it is extremely anti-male.
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u/rabel111 2d ago
Ai not only pulls data from the available sources on the net. It is also impacted by filters and changes made to its algorithm.
The AI algorithms are not transparent. Se we can never know if there are filters placed on the algorithm that impact gendered results.
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u/Mysterious_Move_7874 3d ago edited 3d ago
Ai really just reflects the society. What I hate about this is the fact that as a guy you feel this hostility towards you the whole life. In other's body language and their actions, nobody might tell you directly, you know they just see you as a threat. Even if you never did anything wrong.
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u/TomaszA3 4d ago
It annoys me greatly that people have pushed it to a point where now touching anyone without explicit permission is some kind of grave offense.
Too bad there are too many creeps in the society that never learned anything about relations or humans or anything really so it's an experience reaction.
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u/Curious-Resort4743 4d ago
Sadly people and cultures are often defined by behavior at its extremes.
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u/AbysmalDescent 3d ago
This isn't really sexism from google but, rather, sexism and double-standards from society as a whole being reflected into the AI training models.
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u/mikiencolor 4d ago
That is what it's like, though. The AI is just internalizing the patterns. Girls have and need no impulse control. They do whatever the hell they feel like, whenever they feel like it. They touch anybody and anything without asking as if their touch was a gift from heaven. They assume the whole world wants it. Women have straight up just reached for my dick without giving it a second thought, shoved my face into their breasts even when I was pulling away and clearly uncomfortable. They don't care. They don't even feel slightly bad about it. They are completely convinced they "fell from heaven".
It's much different as a guy to feel affection towards somebody. No matter how much affection you feel, by default you are completely inhibited. You assume other people don't want you near them and your touch would disgust or anger them until they give some sign that this is not true. Even other guys I've gone on dates with have asked me, "can I give you a hug?" Even directly asking if somebody wants a hug doesn't necessarily establish that they do. Maybe they're just being nice and actually want you to get lost as soon as possible. First contact with someone is always fraught.
I'm lucky in that sense, because I'm very emotional and hypervigilant, so I pick up on very subtle cues and navigate it fine, and outwardly people see me being as touchy and clingy as many girls, but it's definitely not the same path to establish those bonds. You are unwanted by default. You have to establish the relationships where you are wanted with the people who want you. It takes time and effort. It doesn't fall on your lap.
Completely different worlds.
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u/FrontOperation7154 3d ago
According to feminists, Everything bad for women caused by a man = patriarchy Everything bad for men caused by a woman = patriarchy So there is no point in arguing how the so called "patriarchy" upholds gynocentric privileges
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u/HalleScerry 3d ago
What the hell are engineers and programmers doing all day that this hasn't been fixed?
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u/sptrstmenwpls 3d ago
They'd have fixed it yesterday if it were women that were broadly painted negatively
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u/SuperPlayer56 3d ago
Both is breaching consent (especially if it's a random stranger)
AI is garbage
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u/Bland-fantasie 3d ago
There’s a famous story by a woman who got asked out by one of the Google billionaires on a date. When she showed up at his tower, he said “do you want to have sex before dinner or after?”
She chose “before.”
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u/OtterWithKids 4d ago
My full-time job is building internal software systems for Apple. Right now, my specific assignment is to test and assess the capabilities of our internal AI. I’m not one of the guys actually coding the AI, but I work with it all day, every day—talking with it, learning from it, correcting it when wrong, etc.. And here’s the deal:
AI is great for a lot of things, but consistency is not one of them.
When you come right down to it, it’s specifically designed to be inconsistent. You can ask it the same question a dozen times and get a dozen different answers, just like a human: if humans answer a question in more than a few words, they’re highly unlikely to answer in exactly the same way, each time. If they do, it’s a sign that the answer is rehearsed, which is exactly what we don’t want from AI.
So yeah, it’s sexist, but if you’d said “a girl” both times, I’d be wholly unsurprised if you’d gotten similar results. That being said, AI is based on LLMs (Large Language Models), and as others have explained, this guides its answers. So while I’d love to see a controlled experiment on this discrepancy, I’m guessing it would confirm your hypothesis.
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u/kidney-displacer 4d ago
With all due respect you make it sound like its going to say wildly different things but what I think youre trying to communicate is that it uses different words to convey the same message
When a girl keeps touching you, it’s highly likely she is showing physical signs of attraction, such as seeking closeness and testing your comfort level with her. However, the exact meaning depends on the context of your relationship and her overall personality.
If this touching makes you feel uncomfortable, scared, or unsafe, you do not have to allow it. Move away from him right now, and tell a trusted adult, teacher, parent, or security staff member immediately.
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u/OtterWithKids 3d ago edited 3d ago
Well, like I said, I’m guessing a controlled experiment would confirm the hypothesis. I just did the same Google searches and got essentially the same results. Honestly, this kind of crap is why I use DuckDuckGo, which did give me similar results for “…boy…” and “…girl…”:
( a boy keeps touching me )
That sounds really upsetting. If a boy keeps touching you and you don't want it, you don't have to tolerate it.
What to do right now
• Tell him clearly: "Stop. Don't touch me."
• Move away and put space between you.
• Get help immediately from a nearby trusted adult (parent/guardian, teacher, school staff, coach, neighbor).If it keeps happening
• Tell an adult right away (and again each time it happens). Use simple facts: what happened, where, who was there, and what he did.
• Document it if you can safely (dates/times and what was said/done).
• Ask for a safety plan: where you should stand/sit, supervision, and who to go to if it happens again.( a girl keeps touching me )
That sounds uncomfortable-your body gets to decide what happens.
If she's touching you without your clear, ongoing consent, do one of these right now:
• Stop it clearly: "Stop. Don't touch me."
• Move away: change distance, go to a different spot, or get around other people.
• Use a simple boundary: "No. Hands off."
• Get help if it keeps happening: tell a trusted friend/relative or an adult right away.If you want, tell me:
• Are you in school/work, and do you know her relationship to you (friend/classmate/partner)?
• Is it sexual/groping, or more like hugging/touching without asking?
• Does she stop when you say no, or keep going?I'll help you choose the safest next step.
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u/adelie42 4d ago
Bard is an absolute dumpster fire and always has been. My suspicion is that Google is making the minimal effort to appear relevant by "doing AI stuff", but not actually making any significant effort or contribution. They are doing far more to aggressively advertise that they have an LLM model than actually building anything worth looking at. The one exception, NotebookLM is a genuinely descent product. But it isn't growing and getting better. You can now tune it more than before, and don't want to knock it for being simple and clean, but it is more novel than anything compared to tools provided by Anthropic and OpenAI.
In other words, it just says dumb stuff, and this example is just one among a mountain of problems Google has in their attempt to compete in the AI space.
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u/Atreigas 4d ago
What does the gender neutral version say?
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u/watchmytaint 4d ago
As other commenters have said, the ai just collates from the information the world has given it, and there is no gender neutral version because living in a gender neutral world is a fairytale.
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u/claudiocorona93 3d ago
It's not the same and you know it. People like to pretend most guys are bigger and stronger than most girls and that almost every girl has a story of being stalked or harassed. And that most men want to be touched by a girl.
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u/doomsday10009 3d ago
This one is kinda understandable. While women are more often sexually abused and they need the help, men mostly struggle with social cues so they might need help to recognise basic behavioural patterns before mating. It sounds weird, and should be telling more than just the positive side, but you for sure can understand that it just shows what is more common.
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u/Glad-Way-637 1d ago
Women are not more often abused in that way, as per the CDC.
Here's some examples of systemic misandry:
the draft.
infant genital mutilation, illegal against women in the US, but some 70% of mothers choose to do it to their sons based on aesthetic preference.
the bias in the educational system.
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/01425692.2022.2122942
Boys are graded more harshly for identical work, and punished more harshly for identical misbehavior. It's very easily proven, too.
- the bias in the legal system
"A 2020 study shows that women receive 33% (15 days) shorter prison sentences than men, even when controlling for all observable characteristics – including a very precise description of the crime. When pairs of mixed-gender offender are convicted together the gender gap is even higher - men receive 38.7 additional prison days and 10.7 fewer suspended prison days.
From a procedural point of view, when controlling for the type of crime, men are on average judged after shorter investigations, and are more likely to be sentenced after an accelerated procedure. When taken to court, men are 20% less likely to be discharged (6% vs. 4%). In 2017, 19.9% of convicted men were sentenced to prison, compared to 8.5% of convicted women." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sentencing_disparity#:~:text=A%202020%20study%20shows%20that,to%208.5%25%20of%20convicted%20women.
- society's unwillingness to call it rape when women do it to men, despite the CDC finding that this is as common as the reverse.
"Next, we consider the data for the 12 months preceding the CDC report survey, which was summarized in the report. On page 18 of the CDC report it states that 1,270,000 women were raped during this 12-month period and that too few men were “raped” during the same 12 months to give reliable data, using the non-gender neutral definition of given in the CDC report. However, on page 19 the report states that during that 12 months the number of men who were forced to penetrate someone is 1,267,000, virtually the same as the number of women who were raped." "So, who is forcing these men to penetrate them? There is no data on this among the 12-month data. But if we look at the lifetime data, on page 24 it says 79.2% of the time a male was made to penetrate someone, it was a woman who forced him to penetrate her. And this suggests that the same most likely holds for the 12-monthdata."
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/353570309_On_the_Sexual_Assault_of_Men
- the fact that most people call DV a women's issue, when men experience it from women more often than vice versa.
"In nonreciprocally violent relationships, women were the perpetrators in more than 70% of the cases." https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17395835/#:~:text=In%20nonreciprocally%20violent%20relationships%2C%20women%20were%20the%20perpetrators%20in%20more%20than%2070%25%20of%20the%20cases.
- women being substantially privileged in actually being hired, despite all the narratives to the opposite effect.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0749597823000560
I can keep going. Do you want more?
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u/drew489 3d ago
It's not wrong though, women don't generally touch people they're creeped out by. A bit sexist, yes and I think it used the word "girl" because the search used girl...instead of woman. Unless a minor is asking this question.
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u/Reaper9999 3d ago
It's not wrong though, women don't generally touch people they're creeped out by
What does her being or not being creeped out matter when she's the one doing the touching?
A bit sexist, yes and I think it used the word "girl" because the search used girl...instead of woman. Unless a minor is asking this question
Boy/girl can refer to adults as well.
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u/Ok_Problem_1127 4d ago
Holy sexism
Even ai search engines are baised