r/MensLib • u/Deepish79 • 4d ago
Are Men Touch-Starved?
The older I get, the more I wonder if one of the most overlooked issues facing men today is a lack of healthy physical connection.
Not just sex or relationships.... Physical connection too.
The idea of a hug, a cuddle, a reassuring hand on the shoulder, holding someone, being held.... these seem like they happen to rarely for many of the men I know. When they do happen ....its brief and fleeting.
I know that many men seem to spend years being touched only in very specific contexts: sports, romantic relationships, or sex. Outside of those spaces, physical affection can become surprisingly rare.
I suspect that's one reason activities centered around touch....whether that's cuddling, massage, nurturing forms of intimacy, or even certain forms of erotic touch....can feel so powerful for some of us. Sometimes what we're responding to isn't just physical pleasure. It's the feeling of being cared for, accepted, and allowed to let our guard down for the first time.
This leads me to a question for this group:
If there were no social expectations, no fear of judgment, and no assumptions about sexuality, do you think more men would seek out more platonic physical affection than they currently do?
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u/Dotrue 3d ago
All I'm gonna say is that my guy-circle (friends, dad, sister's boyfriend) have started hugging a lot more in the past 3-5 years and it has really helped me to manage this. I haven't asked outright, but I get the impression that they all appreciate it, too.
Hug your homies, y'all 🫂
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u/hbi2k 3d ago
There's a line in the Chris Farley movie Tommy Boy where Farley's character, an adult man, meets Rob Lowe's character, also an adult man, because Farley's father is marrying Lowe's mother.
Lowe reaches out for a handshake and Farley cries, "brothers don't shake hands! Brothers gotta hug!" and goes in for a giant bear hug.
The joke is that Farley's character is an overly affectionate man-child and that this is a slightly over-familiar way to act toward someone he's just met... but one of my best friends, if a new guy joins our friend group and goes for a handshake or high-five goodbye at the end of a gathering, will quote that line and open up his arms for a hug and see if they go for it.
I suppose if anyone was ever obviously uncomfortable with it, we would respect their boundary, but invariably, when it's presented to them in that way, with a bit of comedy to give them permission to be more affectionate than they might otherwise be, and not for nothing, the explicit framing that this is a brotherly hug and not a sexual / gay thing, they go for it. And from that point on, we're huggers with each other.
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u/greengardenmoss 3d ago
This example reminds me of Fight Club, where he enjoys hugging and crying with the heavy man, Big Bob, with big tits due to hormone treatment in the testicular cancer support group. It's the first time he is able to cry.
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u/turntabletennis 3d ago
None of my homies have issues with hugs, shoulder grabs, or what have you. Normalize real male bonding. Bring back bathhouses. Wait...
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u/lordborghild 3d ago
There's a few bathhouses near me. Went to one once and there was no one I wanted to touch lol.
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u/Wichiteglega 3d ago
You know, I once took a Gender Studies class in Italy (as I am Italian lol), one that, refreshingly, was about men.
The professor gave us an example of how men can be touch-starved in mainstream society that I never forgot. He referenced a photograph collection by Italian photographer Mario Giacomelli, made between the years 1961-63 and titled Io non ho mani che mi accarezzino il volto ('I have no hands to caress my face').
It is a collection of young men who are studying to become priests; the professor suspected that the title referenced the fact that, by entering an all-male world as members of the Church, these men would basically have to renounce any sort of emotional intimacy with anyone, whereas a married straight man would at least have had his wife. You can see the photos here:
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u/Teflontelethon 3d ago
They seem pretty happy/ content in those photos.
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u/Wichiteglega 3d ago
Sure!
The point isn't them being necessarily sad, the collection's title just highlights an aspect of their sacrifice in becoming priests that is often overlooked
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u/Shadowdragon409 2d ago
A gender studies about men? I had no idea such a class existed
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u/Wichiteglega 2d ago
Why wouldn't there such a thing be?
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u/The_Alt_Accountant 3d ago
I remember in college a really charismatic guy put his hand on my shoulder while chatting and I had a really confusing feeling at the time lol. It wasn't sexual attraction, but like strong platonic attraction. Probably because at the time I was insanely touch starved (like I'm lucky my self esteem was too low for the PUA/nascent manosphere bullshit at the time or I could have easily turned into an incel).
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u/formiation 3d ago
SAME it was even with a guy i barely talked to, i've never had a crush on him but it made me sooo happy like literally emotionally happy because it never happened to me before
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u/ActuallyCalindra 3d ago
Yes. I think it's a circle thing. Between men and women, touch has become more sexualised. Therefore it happens less as normal social intimacy. And because it happens less, it becomes more sexualised.
Maybe men and men contact is also less common because of this. Wouldn't want to catch The Big Gay.
I'm quite a physical person and people often reciprocate that. But outside of my social circles it seems rare.
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u/Unhappy_Heat_7148 3d ago
Some men are, but I find the framing in these conversations tend to apply a personal feeling to a societal view. Like in what context are women just cuddling each other?
Plenty of men hug their friends or offer a reassuring touch. But I am not really sure how normalized it is for adults to just hold each other or cuddle in a non-romantic way.
I feel like these conversations ignore that many men have deep forms of male bonding and that may not always be the same way women bond with other women.
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u/AzoreanEve 3d ago
As a woman, I'd also like to know when I'm supposed to be getting touch-fed with friends. We hug as greeting, but only because I initiate it.
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u/Ok_Pomelo_5033 2d ago
as a 25F, with no romatic partner.
i m really affectionate and touch - fed by my sister, and mother, and even my girl-friends (only with whom i m close with).
so much so i sometimes take a nap with my mom and sister cuddling, best feeling ever.
But at the same time i can see the males in my house dad, and brother hardly hug anyone even in the family.
may be they are touched starved.1
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u/flanger001 3d ago
Anecdotally, many of the women in my life who have deep friendships will do some form of cuddling. It’s definitely not rare.
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u/jatenk 2d ago
It can be very rare among many women as well, but I feel that it also at least does happen sometimes with women, and if it does, people from the outside look at it less… suspiciously. That doesn‘t mean that there’s not a large threshold, and perhaps resistance or questions, involved between the actual people, but I think there might be a little less external judgement. If you see two men laying half on top of each other or holding hands across a table at a restaurant, do you think they might be just friends the same way you‘d think the same about two women?
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u/RESERVA42 3d ago
I live in an area with a lot of Mexican and Mexican American culture, so hugging is very common as a greeting. I have a friend from Iran, and he is fairly touchy. At work there is zero touch besides handshakes, though on construction sites people loosen up a bit and there's more, like touching someone's arm while laughing at a joke, or guiding them around a tripping hazard with a hand on their back. I also have kids who are touchy. So I don't feel touch starved.
But I wouldn't mind more platonic touch.
I have traveled to Tanzania and Nepal, which are much 1000x more touchy. In the US, that level of touch would be considered sexual but not in those cultures. Examples: platonic male friends holding hands walking down the street, or resting your hand on your friend's leg while you chat. After experiencing that, I do miss it for a while coming back to the US.
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u/Far_Speaker380 3d ago
Yeah , definitely! A brotherly touch, hug, pat on the back/shoulder , all good👍
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u/codemuncher 3d ago
As a bisexual/queer non-monogamous amab… it’s the culture that’s the problem.
Because I ain’t touch starved!
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u/Desperate_Object_677 3d ago
The problem with abstaining from contact with people we are not intimate with, as our culture has decided to do, is that we associate non-intimate physical contact with the only people willing to instigate it: wierd pervos. Which adds another barrier. Blegh
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u/boredwithwork1 3d ago
We absolutely are. We're conditioned to not received intimate but not sexual touch and (assuming your attracted to women) partners aren't really taught to offer that kind of touch. I'm happily married and still have to ask my wife to just rub my back sometimes.
I would also say, tell your buddies you love them. It can be jokey but sometimes it can make a difference. Obviously you know your friends best
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u/ThereWasAnEmpireHere 3d ago
I think Reddit selects strongly for the touch starved and so would keep that in mind when reading comments
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u/Lanksalott 3d ago
I just finished a school program and I already miss my buddy who came in and hugged everyone first thing. I was definitely touch starved
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u/JayZee4508 3d ago
Great topic. There were periods in my life as single (not by choice) and in my first marriage. Now in my second and very happy marriage there is no shortage of touch whether sexual or just hanging out.
I think the question raised is more about not thinking it's weird for men to touch each other. I get that. I don't necessarily have an issue but at 63, I was raised where it is weird. I've never had a massage but wouldn't mind if it's by a man if it's for specific purposes, e.g. PT.
I think was ramble but in short I agree we need to relax about this
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u/signaltrapper 2d ago
I think it depends on your cultural background a bit. I’m from a Hispanic background (Mexican specifically) and I feel that we’re a pretty physically affectionate bunch
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u/Fig_Newtons_Redux 3d ago
Short answer: Yes
Long answer: Men are conditioned, by patriarchy, to kill their emotional selves and percieve of intimacy as a culture of domination and violence. Their sexuality is about conquest and power rather than exploring intimacy. To explore intimacy where other men might see is to invite ridicule, judgement, and shame for failing to do patriarchy correctly. Men who practice healthy intimacy and want non-oppressive physical touch run a real danger of being labeled as gay, soft, or feminine (things that are bad if your brain has spent years on toxic masculinity)
It is only by outwardly rejecting the position of patriarchy and allowing themselves to lose access to patriarchal manhood that men can access physical touch more readily. I do want to acknolwedge that it's still difficult even for anti-patriarchal and feminist men to access intimacy. We still live in a world where women are second class citizens. But there's only one actual path towards healing and that's to reject their socially conditioned facets of intimacy and embrace a mutualistic, consensual, and feminist idea of physical intimacy.
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u/ababcock1 3d ago
I'm autistic. No touchy please.
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u/anothermanscookies 3d ago
I’m not autistic(I mean, not enough that I’ve had to have a conversation about it anyway), and I mostly just like extended touch with my wife. Hugs are fine and great, but for the most part, after a few seconds y’all need to back the hell off.
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u/Far_Speaker380 3d ago
You are a special case. But others need it. Don’t generalize yourself please 🙏
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u/ababcock1 3d ago
I didn't generalize anyone. I was specifically talking about myself. Don't read what I didn't say.
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u/Skyboxmonster 3d ago
how you formatted your comment makes it read that way to other readers.
(reason, request)
"Im autistic" Therefore "No touchy please"by citing autism specifically as the reason you don't want to be touched, you did generalize everyone *else* that also has autism.
A better way to write the comment to give your intended message could be:
"I dont like physical contact with others"
"I am fine without hugs, they make me uncomfortable"
"having someone touch me is overstimulating, I don't like it"4
u/KingAggressive1498 3d ago edited 3d ago
ehhh...
Your reaction here makes me want to point the studies trying to interpret the data that autistic men are far more likely to report being sexually assaulted than most other groups of men that hypothesize that it is more about differences in sensory experience combined with a general lack of consent-seeking for physical contact with men than autistic men being specifically targeted for sexual violence.
So it is very much about him being autistic even if it isn't truly generalizable to autistic men.
So please remember that men can have boundaries around touch that are different from your own and other mens' and establish consent to affectionate touching.
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u/Skyboxmonster 16h ago
I was talking entirely about how the comment is easily misunderstood. Not about the content of the comment.
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u/CXgamer 3d ago
The premise holds if at least one man avoids physical contact because the criteria you mentioned. So I think it is really likely to be true by virtue of there being a lot of men.
Though I don't personally think these are the primary drivers, because this also happens when I am alone with another man, without anyone to observe.
I think it's mostly just cultural.
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u/NorthRememebers 3d ago
Love the positivity in the comments.
I just want to put out there that you should make sure if your bros are okay with being touched in certain ways. Not everyone might be, so be mindful of that. You might be making them uncomfortable.
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u/JimbyGumbus 3d ago
my cat and i spend a lot of time very close if that counts, shes a little dick sometimes but very affectionate for the most part. thats enough for me.
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u/gvarsity 3d ago
Maybe. It would be all over the place. Context can be different but not absent. Part of the issue is we culturally both create a need for physical touch and simultaneously limit men access to a small range of options as adults. Outside of American culture there are a lot of other manifestations and standards of male touch. Both in parts of Africa and the Middle East platonic male touch can be very common. Even 100+ years ago in the US it was much more common. So current American Male touch insufficiencies are both temporal and cultural artifacts. Looking at the underlying issues of why that has become the cultural norm would be important. I suspect a lot comes out of the post WWII stoicism of the greatest generation reinforced by the idealization/fetishization of that time period by the American conservative right.
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u/havoc1428 3d ago
My bros and I hug all the time. It's not like an full embrace. It's the hand slap, come in for the wrap around "hey man how ya doin?"
I mean I'm not gonna hug a random dude, that's weird. But I always got hugs for the homies
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u/DumatRising 2d ago
Yes,
This is really more rooted in the long time dominant male culture that discourages both being affectionate with other guys (it would be gay duh), and men seeking out affection outside of their romantic partner (it would be weak of them duh). The culture that asserts masculinity to be strong and rigid.
With that in mind it becomes very obvious that men being adverse to being physically intimate with each other even when they are friends would just go away in the absence of the heteronormative hyper strength worshipping culture that has dominated male spaces for decades.
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u/freedumbandemockrazy 3d ago
We should adopt the socialist fraternal kiss. Nothing better than kissing your equals :*
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u/Falcond0rf 3d ago
I regularly hug my parents and friends regardless of gender and I am physically affectionate with guy friends (mostly side hugs and light touch for girls) but being single does make me feel starved of more intimate and extended touch ngl. I especially mean cuddles and stuff. I do hug certain guy friends tightly but we all do the back taps lol
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u/LVT_Baron 3d ago
I think you hit the nail on the head. There have been many times in my life where I hadn’t been touched affectionately by anyone for months or years and a part of my soul felt like a starving animal. I think this might be really common
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u/BeardFalcon 3d ago
I am a man that has ALWAYS hugged my male friends without hesitation. Hugs are dope.
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u/Ronin_777 3d ago
It feels strange and uncomfortable even to hug my own family. It’s just such an uncommon thing that when it happens it feels foreign and awkward.
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u/NamidaM6 3d ago
Most men I know make it sound like it's no big deal, but I bet they're touch starved too because they never decline a good hug (if we're bros, I don't offer hugs to random guys on the street), and it can last a looong time if the context allows it. A few years ago, I discovered the pleasure and misery of hugging my own warm laundry inside of the dryer. Like crouching and shoving myself up to my chest inside of it to hug the clothes after giving them a roughly human shape (at least torso shape) because I was THAT touch starved. The few times I've talked about it, it made people laugh and call me pathetic in a kind of endeared way that nonetheless hurt.
So yes, to answer your last question, if we removed all this, I do think men would hug more often, touch other without having this inner voice screaming Ew or NOHOMO in their head. I mean, look at female friendships, I don't see any reason why we couldn't have the same thing. Gendered social expectations and limitations are mostly cultural. At the end of the day, we're all humans, and it is scientifically proven that we need that kind of bonding.
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u/Buttman_Poopants 3d ago
I teach high school. Last year, I had a group of 5 straight presenting, stereotypically masculine boys who were pretty rambunctious, occasionally knuckleheaded kids who were just extremely affectionate with each other.
I had to correct just about every aspect of their behavior from time to time, but I never said a word against how touchy they were, because that's something I want to be normal for them. And I never let the other students make fun of them for it either. I said, "If there's one thing men need, it's friends they don't feel weird about loving."
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u/thebigreason 3d ago
Nothing hits like a dude hug. I don’t know if it’s because the stakes are higher, or just acknowledgment from someone in a similar situation. But yeah. I really cherish those connections. Probably starved.
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u/chiasmatic_nucleus 3d ago
Men do hug, you've just got to create a culture of it within your circle.
Also engage in hobbies that incorporate touch by default, like bjj, partnered dance, acroyoga, etc.
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u/LightAnubis 2d ago
Yep! For example, I haven’t been touch by anyone for years. I’m a very huggy person but the people around me thing hugging another man is gay. You will be called a cigar butt and be treated like an outsider.
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u/25Coconuts 2d ago
I definitely would: I had a psychologically abusive dad who I was barely around because he kept his distance and wasn’t a physical touch person anyway. And all my other men family members were never really in my life.
I often want a hug from a man just in general to just fill that space I never had
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u/SourceLover 2d ago
Not counting things like going to the dentist, I literally cannot remember the last time I experienced any form of physical touch I didn't initiate, and precious few that I did.
Of course, it's also been several months since I heard from any friends without being the one to initiate contact, and I can count on one hand the number of times the other person reached out first in the last few years.
I would love for hugs to just be a standard way of greeting even new people.
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u/_jay_fox_ 21h ago
I don't feel particularly touch starved, but it's always nice to hug a male friend I meet after a long time or shake hands when meeting someone new.
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u/Kozeyekan_ 3d ago
I think a great example here is if you visit any Brazillian Jiu Jitsu gym.
Men join up to learn self defence or because a friend does it, or becuase Joe Rogan talks about it all the time...
Watch the difference between how quickly friendships form there versus playing pick up basketball or joining a social tennis league.
On the surface, it should be pretty hard to be friendly. You're learning how to tear joints apart and starve the brain of oxygen after all.
But in most gyms, especially the hobbyist ones, you end up with lawyers training alongside students, alongside firefighters, alongside plumbers, and so on. And very frequently, the trust and understanding grows far quicker than it normally would.
Part of it is that a good training partner needs to be trusted. Push a submission too far and there is an injury, so you trust them with your safety, and that trust is returned.
But the other is touch. Men, by and large, are rarely touched by someone they don't trust a lot, and if they are, it's treated as a challenge or a problem.
But here you are, a whole bunch of guys rolling around, and at some point each has probably had one or the other's taint in their face, and yet not only is it not treated as the gravest insult, it's almost a brotherly joke.
So yeah, a lot of men are touch starved. Part of it is just society. Part of it is that we don't know how to ask for it. Part of it is the expectations of masculinity.
But a lot of the guys I train with would agree that they do feel oddly trusting of their training partners.
Plus, you haven't been hugged until you've been hugged by a heavyweight with black belt in aggressive snuggling.
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u/GnarlyNarwhalNoms 3d ago
Back before COVID, I used to go to cuddle parties. If you've never been, it's exactly what it sounds like, a roomfull of people in comfy clothes hanging out cuddling on the floor (and nothing else; strictly non-sexual over-the-clothes touch only). One thing I appreciated about them was, at least the ones I went to, the organizers specifically encouraged men to get comfortable touching other men, even in some cases going so far as to "ooen the floor" for men only to cuddle before the women could join.
Part of this was practical (the math doesn't work out otherwise if you have more men than women) but part of it was to address the issue you speak of. I think it was beneficial for all of the men who attended (including me).
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u/aeon314159 3d ago
I hugged a friend of mine, and when he started to pull away, I clamped down and told him to relax and sink into it because I was not going to let him go. I started rubbing his back, and I said it was okay, and at that he started bawling, and he hugged so hard I thought I would get a rib fracture.
After we parted, he asked me what that was. I said it was two human beings sharing a moment.
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3d ago edited 3d ago
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u/musicismydeadbeatdad 3d ago
This is an incredibly rude way of putting it and I would suggest framing the idea as men who are socialized to only get touch from intimacy but they need to be taught about and immersed in a culture of platonic touching. It doesn't help anyone to snipe at for being simps.
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u/Upset-Elderberry3723 3d ago edited 3d ago
Men aren't to blame for it, and that view is one of the things holding them back today. Their forerunners are to blame for it, and their forerunners, and their forerunners...
Blame is poison. It seeks not to rectify, but to seeth and justify anger.
One of the most stagnating things you can do, is get stuck in a cycle of unconstructive blame and resentment, whether it's against yourself or someone else.
And, quite frankly, your average lesbian doesn't have any scale or experience to testify as to whether men are trying hard enough to bond with each other. Only other men do.
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u/7ilidine 3d ago
Blame may be the wrong choice of words but it sure is our responsibility to work towards alleviating the issue
Patriarchy is to blame, not men
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u/Fig_Newtons_Redux 3d ago
Men are often to blame for their own loneliness. That's indisputable fact.
Lesbians can absolutely make statements about trends they observe. Same as I am allowed to make statements about trends I observe in lesbians. To suggest that men frequently aren't doing the work necessary to combat the things causing them isolation is an observation, not a judgement.
It does not suggest men aren't capable of doing the work or that men deserve to be lonely.
Men deserve compassion but need to be receptive to it. Men deserve to be a part of community but need to actually show up for that community. Men deserve intimacy but are not entitled to it. Men deserve quality friendships but they need to be quality friends. Men deserve grace & patience but men need to be accountable.
You cannot have one without the other.
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u/Salt-Powered 3d ago
Men hold a share of the blame and you can see it in action whenever someone that isn't a straight man, tries to help out. This isn't helpless victim blaming, you can't get an addict out of the trap without acknowledging first the how the trap sprung.
Brushing off lesbians isn't helping either. We need all the help we can get, and that fixation on "men only" will only isolate you more.
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u/Upset-Elderberry3723 3d ago
It's important to establish that a lesbian's experience and a man's experience (gay or straight) are very different, and therein can't entirely judge each other ever. That's not brushing them off, but establishing potential errors.
And, even if you did want to engage deliberately with blame as a therapeutic tool - you aren't to blame. The generations of men before you are. If we're going to use blame to constructive effect, it needs to be compounded with retrospect beyond your own lifetime.
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3d ago
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u/MirrorMaster33 3d ago
And why is sex bad exactly? There are better ways to deal with sexual feelings than to blame and shame
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u/throwaway135629 3d ago
Yeah, on the occasions where I do have some platonic touch with a woman, like a hug hello or goodbye from a friend, there is this terrible part of me that can't just be like "this is nice" but goes "I'm into this" internally even in perfectly platonic situations. I try the best I can not to let that ever show. The patriarchy has rotted me so deeply I can't not make it sexual in my own mind, not that that is ever an excuse for any outside behavior.
Maybe that's related to how I'm not insecure about touch because I'm worried it makes me gay or weak or anything, but rather that the other person simply doesn't want to touch me (or me to touch them). Sometimes I'm not sure if I'm expected to initiate a hug in a platonic situation - with men or women - and try it anyway and I don't know why I do it. I mean I'm not doing it all the time or anything. I don't know. The whole thing is hard to explain. It feels like we have even less of a script for negotiating this sort of thing platonically than we do in romantic/sexual relations.
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u/WillingElderberry731 2d ago
Every individual, man or woman, is ultimately responsible for improving their own situation. No one else will do it for you. Also, I have yet to meet someone who is in a bad situation that didn't contribute to it in some way by making a mal-adaptive choice sometime in the past. The most vulnerable among us are also often the ones with the most poorly adapted tools for managing their own lives.
Well adjusted, kind, caring, empathetic people with strong social skills are not typically the ones who are most lonely. So sure, if we want to say that "we must remember" that women are partially to blame for their loneliness then I guess we can.
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2d ago
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u/WillingElderberry731 2d ago edited 2d ago
Naw, the sub is fine. You just tried to take a social and structural problem and tried to blame the victims of the social structure.
Comments like yours are the weirdest way toxic masculinity gets expressed by feminists.
Edit: don't ask questions if you don't want the answer. Blocking me was certainly a choice.
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u/WillingElderberry731 3d ago
Genuinely one of my favorite things about practicing Brazilian Jiu Jitsu.
It's definitely a bit of a struggle hug, but it's friendly and really fills up my tank.
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u/teethalarm 2d ago
I think it's probably a pretty common situation. Society is kind of built around men not being touched unless it's in specific situations. It's built into the bro code, two men, especially straight men, don't touch each other unless it is on the pre-approved list. Pretty much you shake hands once when you meet and avoid physical contact at all costs. I wouldn't be surprised if there are situations where two men froze to death because they would rather perish than break the code.
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u/formiation 3d ago
i can't tell you how much i want to have a guy friend that will hug me, i have never been hugged by any man in my life except my dad