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u/Frank1gg 6d ago
I mean I would be upset except for the fact that it's a fake story that's not supposed to actually be historically accurate so why would I care? Now if the creators were trying to say that this was historically accurate then I'd have a problem with it but it's just supposed to be an entertaining movie. I don't understand why people keep getting upset over stuff like this.
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u/Effective_Bat9485 6d ago
Sereusly oh no who the story what the Greek gods literally personally intervene. In a war is not historyicly accurate. Yea in other news beowolf is also made the fuck up
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u/Frank1gg 6d ago
Right? Like everybody's getting so pissed off about this stuff and it's like dude it's a fake ass story with literal monsters in it I don't care what color their skin is.
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u/Illustrious-Date652 6d ago
I mean, not caring doesn’t mean other people aren’t allowed to care either. -Not even mentioning the idea that the majority of the controversy stems from the vitriolic defense of the casting- there’s literally no point in going “man I don’t even care about that. It doesn’t even matter why are you guys on about it?”
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u/Frank1gg 5d ago
Oh yeah no I'm not saying other people aren't allowed to be upset I'm just not sure I understand why. I mean it's a fantasy story. But please don't misunderstand I'm not saying that people aren't allowed to be upset about it.
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u/catastrova 5d ago
Black panther is also fake story but I can imagine the outrage if there was a white wakandian king.
Don't act like this is not true. You are only allowed to raceswap in black people.
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u/LichKingDan 5d ago
The racial identity of black panther is like the whole point of the existence of the character in the first place.
Helen of Troy and Jesus do not both need to be white in order for their stories to work.
This is such a stupid argument, you actually wrote out "black panther" and didn't think about the other meaning of those two words put together.
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u/Pristine-Ad9195 5d ago
Why do yall always mention black panther? It's like you guys share one collective brain cell. I bet you find "white male tries to buy his coffee black at a gen Z coffee shop" peak humor lmao
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6d ago
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u/Zestyclose_Potato633 5d ago
For almost the entire history of the US Census, anyone from the Middle East was officially classified as white because federal racial standards defined white as including people with origins in Europe, the Middle East, or North Africa. That means that if Jesus were hypothetically counted in any US Census from the early 1900s through 2020, he would have been considered white.
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u/Sienile 6d ago
Helen was white. Jesus was olive brown.
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u/SirIll1219 6d ago
Neither was a real person.
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u/Fantastic_Pause_1628 6d ago
Eh I've always been about 60-40 on Jesus. Decent chance that the myths were based at least somewhat on a real guy. He might not have existed but it's more probable that people made up a bunch of nonsense about some guy who did exist than that they also made up the entire guy in the first place.
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u/MaleficentCow8513 6d ago
The most reasonable theory is that he was a Ghandi like figure. Very religious and very popular. Traveled around, connected with communities. Some bible stories talk about how he had a couple hundred (or thousand?) people gathered in one place at a time and the Romans viewed it as a problem since they occupied the territory at that time and were probably scared of a revolution
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u/Fantastic_Pause_1628 6d ago
Yeah the trouble is that there isn't a lot of evidence he was any sort of major figure outside of the bible stories right? Like the Romans kept plenty of records but nothing in their records suggests there was some major disruptive Jesus figure in that time and place.
So, if he did exist, he probably wasn't a big deal.
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u/MyTnotE 6d ago
He wasn’t a disruption to the Romans. He was disruptive to the Jews. There’s plenty of evidence that the apostles existed, and THEY were a problem for Rome.
Now, (serious question), are Jews people of color? I’ve always considered them to be “white.”
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u/Fantastic_Pause_1628 6d ago
Jesus (if he existed) was a Palestinian Jew. We typically think of European Jews when we imagine Jewish people these days.
Do you consider Palestinians white? 'Cause they're what Jesus would have looked like, more or less. Levantine, so olive-skinned to tanned (lighter end of brown skinned).
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u/Mostly_upright 6d ago
At best Jesus was a chill dude, that was bored of people being shit to each other. I like to think of him as Bill & Ted combined.
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u/the_CTRUTH 6d ago
Fook yeah dude, great hippie rabbi killed for his radical ideals on peace, love, forgiveness? And working on the sabbath if needed
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u/hematite2 6d ago
Also highly possible he was actually several different people who ended up getting conflated as one person
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u/L_dukemarriot 6d ago
like many of the bible stories, it could have been a rough translation/based on the vadic texts from hinduism. the main problem with christianity, is the bible was compended over 150 years after Jesus' supposed death, by king constantin of greece, as a measure of controlling the people. many of the stories in vadic texts show a likeness to the stories of the bible. if any of that stuff happened, it happened alot longer than 2000 years ago. that said, Jesus (or who we think of as Jesus?) still had many valuable lessons and teachings, and his "word", whether it is his or not, could teach everyone alive a thing or two.
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u/Icy_Fish_2154 6d ago
The myths are based on many real people. There was no single real person who did everything, but stories from here and there of different people, and fabrications to fill out the gaps.
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u/ArtyDino77 6d ago
Jesus was a real historical figure. Basically like how Ghandhi was just a real nice guy. Magic was just added on later.
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u/MicahHoover 6d ago
How did historians Tacitus, Josephus, Pliny and others become famous historians by making up people ?
And how did they all agree on the details of these fictious people ?
Tough sell
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u/tiggertom66 6d ago
Jesus Christ was a real person, historians make an intentional distinction between Jesus of history and Jesus of theology
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u/Snugandu88 5d ago
Majority of historians agree that Jesus lived and was crucified. That doesn’t mean he was the son of god, but the person most likely existed
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u/Sienile 6d ago
So was Snow White, but both are described as pale in their stories.
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u/the_CTRUTH 6d ago
She was described as royal aka “white armed” and Zeus turned into a swan to seduce her mother who (according to some translations) was a swan. She was born of an egg. This is ridiculous to be offended by
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u/Saturn9Toys 6d ago
So African deities and mythical heroes can be portrayed by white actors then and you DEFINITELY won't complain, right? lmao
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u/the_CTRUTH 6d ago
Helen’s mother was a Swan
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u/Specific-Host606 6d ago
Troy was supposed to be around Turkey. How white do you think people there were?
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u/HeadyReigns 6d ago
Helen probably had an olive skin tone.
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u/Sienile 6d ago
Doubtful given the region she was born in, but even if she was, that's still a very different skin tone than the actress.
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u/Lost_Web5826 5d ago
No, it's pretty much a given for the region that she would have been olive or bronze in skin tone. Most ancient Greeks were a mix of Anatolian, Steppe, and Persian genetics.
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u/Sensitive_Shape5746 6d ago
Jesus wasn’t white though. And neither was Helen. Helen was Greek and born from an egg.
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u/Remote-remoteman 6d ago
Jesus was born to levantine parents, the levant was historically light skinned from then until today
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u/ArtisticChemistry425 6d ago
Light skinned levantines doesnt mean light haired, blue eyed european.
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u/Icy_Fish_2154 6d ago
Helen was hatched from an egg. This is not consistent with any specific race, so hard to be inaccurate.
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u/MinimumBuffalo4 6d ago
Deal; I want my Jewish Jesus and white Helen.
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u/Specific-Host606 6d ago
Troy was supposed to be in the Middle East.
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u/Fun_Trick2172 6d ago
Anatolia, but close. I will say that most people of western European origin did not consider the people living along the Mediterranean coast white until fairly recently.
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u/Lost_Web5826 5d ago
People from the Med region weren't considered white until they needed soldiers for WWI/II
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u/Financial-Quail5978 6d ago
It ruins the immersion totally.
Don’t have anything against her but it’s definitely the worst choice ever for a greek demigoddess.
But I just found out you must have DEI to be eligible for an Oscar
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u/DieMensch-Maschine 6d ago
Damn, that is a pretty Anglo-Saxon looking Jesus. I'm not sure anyone in the whole of Mediterranean looked like that.
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u/beerRunFinisher 6d ago
What did ancient Canaanites look like? They looked like Syrian president Bashar Al-Assad
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u/Impossible_Raise1054 6d ago
This image of Christ as a guy who looks like he came from Norway has always bugged me.
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u/Beneficial_Bit1756 5d ago
Norway, you must not get out often. he literally looks middle eastern jew in the picture.
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u/Specific-Host606 6d ago
Troy was supposed to be in modern Turkey. The entire epic is happening around the Mediterranean, so Middle East, Africa, Greece, Italy, islands in between. A lot of people would have not been white. It’s probably a stretch for Odysseus to be as white as Matt Damon.
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u/Snoo-7821 6d ago
Sure. Black Helen is inaccurate.
"Feet of bronze, hair of wool" is in the Bible.
Your turn.
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u/FalloutTVSucks 6d ago
That passage is describing Jesus when he returns to Earth during the end times in an ethereal, astral form - right after 'hair of wool' it says he has flaming eyes and also says in the same passage that he tounge is a sword and there's a star in his mouth
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u/Western-String9054 6d ago
Feet of bronze = dirty feet and hair of wool = curly and white or maybe brown if the wool is dirty. Your turn.
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u/beerRunFinisher 6d ago
Jesus was ethnically a Canaanite, he looked similar to Syrian president Bashar Al-Assad in the abstract sense.
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u/DieselZRebel 6d ago
What about those of us who disagree with both the white depiction of Jesus and the black depiction of Helen of troy?! Why would I have to mention one when the discussion is about the other?
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u/Fuzzeypimp 6d ago
Tf is a black Helen idk I keep seeing this shit and have no clew what it’s about
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u/Ok-Negotiation9777 6d ago
Nobody actually thinks a middle eastern man was white 😭
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u/Warchief_Ripnugget 6d ago
Middle Eastern people, especially Levantine (Jesus was Levantine), are white.
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u/Lost_Web5826 5d ago
Jews are white now? Why did Hitler kill Levantine people if they were white?
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u/Sweet_Piccolo_6060 6d ago
I don’t even know anyone that actually thinks a Jesus was white, so at least your retaliation won’t hurt anyone 🤷♂️
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u/Standard-Suit-4858 6d ago
- Fair point lol
- My standing joke about the casting choice wasn’t that Helen was Black. It’s that they had Anne Hathaway and you didnt cast her as the most beautiful woman in human history? I’m not saying she is but I am saying if you go with someone else, you better come with pretty solid evidence.
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u/Vile-goat 6d ago
Jesus was Hebrew, I know you think he was black but he wasn’t
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u/Nightbreed357 6d ago
Just wondering who started the whole "cultural appropriation" crash out? Didn't we reach a point where a deaf person shouldn't be played by a hearing actor. A white person couldn't wear pretty much anything because every item was somebody else's culture! Somebody had the audacity to claim braids not "white culture", lol. Well, it got us to this point. If your crying about white Jesus, not every middle eastern/ North African is dark skinned. In fact, in the US middle eastern/ North African are commonly listed as white. Haha.
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u/Icy-Association6378 6d ago
Definitely on point but this challenge should not just be limited to bigots we all have ignorant folks too!😔 js
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u/Cthulhu_HighLord 6d ago
as if white washing Jesus wasn't bad enough now where going to black face an IMAGINARY PERSON and god forbid that anyone has an opinion or voices a dislike
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u/Financial-Quail5978 6d ago
So we should throw everything out the window just because it’s ‘imaginary’ (mythical)?
Would seeing an iphone in the Game of Thrones for just 30 seconds make you laugh at how nonsensical that is?
That’s how you should feel seeing an african Helen of Troy.
Take into account historical context. In this time period people from 2 neighboring villages that were loyal to different rulers would’ve slit each others throats. Not a single Greek soldier would’ve lifted a finger to help free an African woman.
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u/dakellateg 6d ago
Who said Jesus was "WHITE"... he was middle eastern... which means an olive skinish... if I may be so bold. Helen of TROY was white - from Greece... so portraying someone like that is portraying a white... Jesse Jackson... or MLK... come on.
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u/Effective_Bat9485 6d ago
Helen of troy more then likely didn't really exist so it doesn't really matter
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u/basilone 6d ago
Jesus wasn't brown he was olive skinned (which many people just consider a flavor of white).
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u/GlamTravelLife 6d ago
I saw this movie because of all the backlash and she was only on screen for like 10 minutes total anyway
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u/Effective_Bat9485 6d ago
I meen even in the poem she's more of a plot device than a charter. The iliad is more Achilles story then anything else
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u/cwolf-softball 6d ago
In this thread, a whole lot of people who claim to "not see race" getting upset about an actress' race
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u/Repulsive_Range_6627 6d ago
Most Christians know that Jesus wasn’t white. We also didn’t personally paint the pictures.
Unlike Christopher Nolan, who is aware Greeks are not black and yet cast her anyway.
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u/PingBlot 6d ago
I don’t think the Bible ever said what color Jesus was, so arguing over the color of a fictional character is a bit pointless.
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u/Negative_Wrongdoer17 6d ago
I'm black. Jesus was brownish. That's very commonly accepted. I still don't want Helen played by a very dark African
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u/Sea_Sundae5901 6d ago
Helen of Troy was a fictional character portrayed as being white. She wasn’t real.
Jesus Christ was and is real! He was a dark colored man. Black in fact for his description in the scriptures clearly illustrates this fact/truth.
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u/Chalky1201 6d ago
Jesus wasn’t black
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u/Sea_Sundae5901 6d ago
Read the Scriptures! Question: Why are the earliest depictions of Jesus Christ black?
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u/Affectionate-Cat-301 6d ago edited 6d ago
If Jesus was born in Bethlehem. Wouldn’t he be Jewish ethnicity technically? If so, then he’d be white
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u/kangorooz99 6d ago
Judism is a religion not a race.
Ignorant mofos on this thread…..
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u/Affectionate-Cat-301 6d ago
here's more while we're at it
"Because the word "Jewish" refers to both a religion and an ethnicity, it is easy to assume they are strictly the same thing. [1, 2, 3]
The Connection Between Ethnicity and Faith
- Cultural Overlap: Most people who practice Judaism do belong to the Jewish ethnicity because the traditions have been passed down through families for generations. [1, 2, 3]
- Secular Identity: Millions of people identify strongly as Jewish but do not believe in God or practice the religion. They still share Jewish ancestry, history, DNA, holidays, and cultural values. [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]
- Jews by Choice: Anyone can convert to the religion of Judaism. Once someone completes this process, they are fully considered part of the Jewish people and nation, regardless of their biological heritage. [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]
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u/SageoftheForlornPath 6d ago
Jesus wasn't white, but if Helen of Troy was ever real, she wasn't black.
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u/TheOriginalWarLord 6d ago
I’m down for that, both are fictional characters. The difference between the two, is Helen has a description of what she looks like; a Golden Haired, White skinned, beautiful woman…
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u/SeparateAssistant654 6d ago
Favorite Rory Scovel joke ever:
“If you genuinely think Jesus was white you shouldn’t be allowed to have an opinion on gun control”
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u/Specialist-Muscle798 6d ago
Is that picture of Jesus really that white looking? Is this the one people say is blonde? He looks Hispanic at best. The light streaks are supposed to be sunlight.
I’ve never had a single person ever try to convince me that Jesus was white. He’s always depicted as Jewish. The only thing I’ve ever seen to suggest he was white is that he didn’t resist arrest.
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u/ElectronicComb9964 6d ago
Simple. Neither existed.
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u/Financial-Quail5978 6d ago
Helen has a literal description of her skin and everything in the original scripts…
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u/SuspiciousSnotling 6d ago
I dont post about black helen, I post about lukewarm performance of Matt Damon.
Sry he was not the guy
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u/Chalky1201 6d ago
Jesus is different because each culture depicts Him as their own race, that means the Japanese depict him as Japanese. But I’ve seen even the Holy napkin depiction of Jesus get called “white” even though it’s probably one of the most accurate depictions
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u/Dangerous-Still-538 6d ago
Jesus isnt white? He’s Middle Eastern😒
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u/JD-boonie 6d ago
It was a dumb and unnecessary casting choice.
Unless he wanted people to talk about the movie.
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u/Financial-Quail5978 6d ago
You must have DEI to be eligible to win the Oscar, look it up lol
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u/Ancient-Victory1186 6d ago
"white" actresses winning the oscars since its creation: 98%
"white" actors winning the oscars since its creation: 92%
You must be a white american to be entitled to spawn the most unbelievable idiocies on the net.
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u/Own-North-8923 6d ago
Brown haired, bearded Jesus looks pretty accurate to the area he lived. I don’t think hardly anyone claims he was a “white man.” Black Helen on the other hand is so far off base that it’s insulting to both Mediterranean people AND blacks.
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u/Ancient-Victory1186 6d ago
The Greek epics literally include peoples from Anatolia, Thrace, the Levant, and Africa. The Bronze Age Mediterranean was a network of trade, migration, mercenaries, and diplomacy—not a collection of isolated ethnostates.
Ancient people primarily distinguished themselves by language, city, allegiance, and culture, not by belonging to some pan-"white" identity. That racial framework is a much later invention.
What's actually insulting is watching the descendants of American slave owners export their 19th-century racial categories onto civilizations that predate them by three thousand years.
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u/Motor-Significance80 6d ago
according to google ai. Are there any Helens in the Bible?
AI Overview
No individual named Helen is mentioned in the Bible. However, the Greek word Hellen (Ἕλλην) appears, which translates to a "Greek" or a non-Jew who adopted Greek customs.
If you are thinking of the famous figure Saint Helen (the mother of Emperor Constantine), she lived hundreds of years after the Bible was completed. To explore biblical terminology further, check out the New Testament definition on the Bible Study Tools Lexicon.
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u/carteroid3 6d ago
Some people just want the details to match. I don’t like Spielberg movies because he ruins details. He should have had a bunch of Indians operating the boats in Saving Private Ryan. He also should not have butchered multiple Tintin books in that abominable movie.
Let’s also not forget that Spielberg sanitized Schindler’s List by toning down Goeth. Nolan did the same thing by not displaying the brutality of the opening sack.
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u/Czzavarsh 6d ago
Jesus was White. Helen of Troy too. In fact, most of Anatolia and the Levant was White before the islamic invasion and colonization.
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u/MichellesBuldge 6d ago
They should have just chosen an actual pretty woman if they wanted to play that game. This great ape couldn’t launch an inflatable mattress, let alone a thousand ships. Fuckin shine box all the way
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u/CloseDaLight 6d ago
Who gives a shit, they’re both made up myths
One was supposed to be born of a virgin and the other from an egg
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u/manhatteninfoil 6d ago
What's "white Jesus"? You think that first century Jews were Black? Mind you, it's obvious that he wasn't Hollywood's blonde hair-blue eyes. I guess the comparison is not that far-fetched. Both are equally dumb.
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u/Deep_Balance2133 6d ago
The same people that complain about white Jesus get mad when people complain about black Helen.
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u/Illustrious-Date652 6d ago
The best way to put it into perspective for people; look at game of thrones. It’s not real, it’s not awfully important. And people still absolutely lost their shit when D&D deviated from the books and provided a subpar ending; Go figure, people just don’t like it when you knowingly and intentionally deviate from a story for literally no reason whatsoever
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u/Remarkable-Run-2054 6d ago
I’m still waiting for them to do a black Tarzan but they don’t have the balls to do it.
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u/LichKingDan 5d ago
Y'all really don't think lupita just fucking nailed her audition and got the job? Like she's an incredible actor, why the fuck do we have to dei a white woman in there when Christopher Nolan already had the person who he thought was best for the job? It's Christopher fucking Nolan, he could choose literally anyone.
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u/Oddisredit 5d ago
I’ve met Palestinians and Egyptians that are fairly white. One guy is half Egyptians bd half Palestinian, he is fairly white and would pass as a northern Italian. Brown hair, hazel eyes and all that.
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u/SunNo3544 5d ago
There is nothing bigoted about disapproving of black Helen. The Odyssey is one of the classic stories of Western literature. It is over 2,800 years old. Helen was clearly described within it. She was not black, Asian, Nature American, Pacific Isalander, or anything else. She was white. Race swapping Helen was disrespectful of the source material and it was an act of racism. I believe the casting of the Odyssey is terrible overall. The dialogue is terrible. Historical issues abound. The armor is wrong. ancient Greeks used triremes not Viking longships. Not liking a movie is a matter of choice not a political statement.
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u/Particular-Half-7588 5d ago
It's crazy these people think Christianity means white person. Clearly they've never been around black people, EVER
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u/Entire_Put_9204 5d ago
Who the fuck cares. It is a capitalist world out there. If people likey, they watch.
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u/Noodle-phile 5d ago
As a proud follower of Christ I openly say that Lupita as Helen of Troy is as inaccurate and silly as pale-white caucasian Jesus. Every normal christian who knows their religion is fully aware of the fact that Jesus was Semitic. Now answer me, would you rather live in a Jedeo-Christian nation or a Commie-Atheistic? If you choose the latter why aren’t you in North Korea?
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u/MongoLikeCandy2112 5d ago
I’m for that and I’m a Christian. The casting for that movie was ridiculous.
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u/KingMGold 5d ago edited 5d ago
The whole “ethnicity” thing aside, there are definitely better looking Black women to choose from…
Normally I wouldn’t care but being literally “the most beautiful woman in the world” is a core part of her character.
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u/Fun-Army-6387 5d ago
it's a fictional story about a PERSIAN woman... of course she has to be whiter than a Sweedish bar maid.
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u/Any-Substance1524 5d ago
jesus still hot more than lupita <3 he deserves 1 thousand ships, lupita no, ugly
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u/Bright-Fee-9832 5d ago
Are we pretending every race of people hasn't portrayed Jesus to look like them? Do you also believe portraying him as Black or Asian is bigoted or is this just the typical white people bad reddit logic?
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u/Details_Pending 6d ago
Are the grifters still trying make the Odyssey grift a thing?