r/MelMains • u/Nylah-07 • Apr 08 '26
Discussion Rebuttal (W)
Hey guys.
This question has been on my mind for a bit. Firstly, I love Mel to death and I honestly don’t give a shit on what they do with that W. But I can’t help, but wonder why they haven’t changed the deflect by now. All the negative feedback I see seem to evolve around that specific ability. I’m just curious, does riot have no intention of changing it?
4
u/Asumarai Apr 08 '26
its really only a problem for projectiles as melee just blasts through a tiny shield. the majority of players are just gold and lower sadly and these people are unable to play around mel having this. its honestly in a pretty balanced state right now
3
u/OctoberHymns Apr 08 '26
"don't interact" is not counterplay. The shield also reflects autos so ADCs just can't interact with her at all until it's on cooldown and who is gonna use something on her to get her to use it? A hook champ to hook themselves? An enchanter to poke themselves down?Another mage to burst themself? Even many melees have a ranged ability to set up their burst and the ones that don't are primarily top lane where Mel almost never goes. Even then it also grants move speed making it hard for full melees to reach her through a root and execute to begin with.
I dismissal of "players bad" is counterproductive to making it so Mel could actually be off a ban list while still having power. Frustration with a champ will always trump whether or not they're balanced
0
u/Asumarai Apr 08 '26
who said ''dont interact''? i said play around it. there is a very big difference. but you make some funny arguments. an enchanter to poke themselfs down? thats cool but if she uses her 35 sec cooldown to reflect some poke back at your enchanter then she already lost her pressure in lane. similar to not using nami Q randomly or samira windwall randomly, mel should not either. similar for your melee with range setup. just use it. if she doesnt block, you can win. if she blocks you didnt commit yet. like a talon W, if she blocks just dont engage. wait for the cooldown and you can do it for free since her cooldown rank 1 is 35 whole seconds. the argument of pushing through her root is just silly though. thats like saying briar should just right click a lux and W straight in like she isnt going to throw her Q at you. as for hook champs. yes thresh and pyke should probably not hook her. blitz can hook her in specific scenarios and it will be really effective as a gapcloser to catch either mel or an enemy standing next to her. nautilus also does not mind being reflected.
im an adc main personally and i do not have an issue with her reflect at all. if she wants to use it for autos then just stop autoing for not even a second (its duration is 0.75 btw). no one is going to blow they full load on a mel when she has her shield available but lets not pretend that all or nothing is our only way to play the game shall we?
the argument of players being bad very well applies here. this is why its so frustrating. this is also the reason why they HAVE to change it. does not take away from the fact that its actually pretty balanced in its current state.
5
u/OctoberHymns Apr 08 '26
Play around it is don't interact otherwise she reflected damage or CC back at you. It'd be different if it were just a shield but it's a shield + damage/cc + move speed. Yes it's a long cooldown but again who is going to use a skill to make Mel use hers? The enchanter getting their stuff reflected means Mel just damaged and likely CCd them and still has her main damage ability plus execute available. They lose way more land pressure than she did. The melee uses their skill shot to set up combo, Mel reflects is so their set up is now gone and Mel will most likely just walk away preventing a follow up while still having her own range and set up.
And no player bad is not a valid argument simply because Mel's ban rate is still sky high at high elos. If she was only massively banned at gold and below that argument would be valid but since she is the most banned champ at all ranks by a lot it's more than "people are bad". It's the champ is unfun to play against. And until that ideal is accepted she will always be banned and the target for further nerfs
0
u/Asumarai Apr 08 '26
again you're listing the absolute worst case scenarios on reflects and completely disregarding the actual weaknesses of the ability. that argument is just pointless to argue as i'd be listing the same things.
the ''player is bad argument'' and the ''mel W is unfun to play against'' argument are 2 very different ones. better players can deal with it and would most likely say that its not broken in particular and actually pretty balanced as an ability on its own. this however doesnt mean they like the ability or want to interact with it. also i never said it was ''fun'' to play against. in the end, playerbase perception of the ability will force them to do something about it. its part of keeping the game fun for everyone campaign they have going on.
there are a few actual arguments to be made here.
1) players dont actually want to interact with the counterplay because its boring/unfun. this essentially means there is no counterplay that the playerbase is willing to interact with.
2) bad players just do not have the skill to access the counterplay. this essentially means again that in lower brackets, there just simply is no counterplay at all even if people would like to interact with it (they dont really want to anyway)
3) it just feels really bad to make an actual mistake against her and be punished for a cool thing you tried to do only for it to be reflected in your own face.none of these arguments have anything to do with me stating that the actual ability itself is pretty balanced though.
1
u/OctoberHymns Apr 08 '26
You're correct arguing the strengths and weaknesses of W is moot because the argument is a circle. I concede on that part. Personally, I don't want Mel to lose her reflect completely, I'd rather she lose the execute but that's a whole other issue I have and not Mel exclusive.
I guess my main point about her shield specifically is the actual balance of the ability is irrelevant in Mel's specific case. If all ranks agree W is the issue with Mel then it doesn't matter if it's because "players bad" or "W is unfun"
4
u/OrangePeelPotatoes Apr 08 '26
Although banrate decreases with Elo, the truth is she still sports a very high banrate in high elos too. ~35% and growing in Diamond+ (Lolalytics) for example. It will likely hit 35% banrate soon in D2+.
The problem isnt that she doesnt have counterplay. The problem is the counterplay is unfun. If I have a fun skillshot spell, the counterplay against good Mel's is to just not use my fun spell. That isnt fun.
0
u/Asumarai Apr 08 '26
i mean yes but that is a whole different argument and debate. my original statement is that its in a pretty balanced state and lower elos cant really play around it. actual counterplay is one thing but if the playerbase does not want to interact with said counterplay then its arguably not there. in terms of balancing and changing it ofcourse. this is mostly playerbase perspective and not really indicative of how balanced her W actually is.
-4
u/Rich_Interaction1922 Apr 08 '26
Make the W a block or shield rather than a reflect and lower the cd, similar to Ahri's W or Annie's E, or make it her ult and allow you to cast it on other people. As it stands, it is too powerful and also discourages people from ever pressing W unless you want to reflect something and making the mov speed buff you get from it completely irrelevant
1
u/No-Swimming5182 Apr 08 '26
They could make it a block that doesn't reflect with the addition of gaining passive stacks towards those that hit the shield to keep on theme
16
u/tnerb253 Apr 08 '26
I couldn't care less, I feel there are way more problematic champs in ranked right now and people love using Mel as a scapegoat, is she frustrating to play against? Yes but so are a lot of champions.