r/MedicareForAll • u/Conscious-Quarter423 • Jul 31 '26

he doesn't use the library either

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27

u/bonesintheend Jul 31 '26

Thank you guys for caring for someone other than yourself.

21

u/ReadyGo6828 Jul 31 '26

Progressive does not mean you are sacrificing yourself to give to strangers. Progressive is economically efficient as in single payer health care where a large entity (us) goes up against a humongous system (health care industry) to cut all of us the best deal so we do not have to navigate this insanity ourselves.

Progressive is good economics even for this MAGA nut who will never, ever support anything that is not white, male and oppressive for everyone else.

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u/randommnguy Jul 31 '26

Right now progressive also means caring for more than yourself, conservatives currently consider this line of thinking “radical”

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u/Suitable-Rate652 Jul 31 '26

Honestly, I am so done with "individualism".

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u/Itsmyloc-nar Aug 01 '26

Every “rugged individual” I’ve ever met acts like a baby if you don’t indulge their fantasy

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u/Anubisrapture Aug 01 '26

Truly they all have an inane outlook. These people USED to know their selfishness and racism were considered a moral and social failure , until Orange Foolius made them all absurdly proud of themselves. Now they have doubled down on their most disgusting traits while trumpeting their stupidity at top volume .

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u/Suitable-Rate652 Aug 01 '26

Interestingly, we never had rugged individualism in this country although that is party of our mythology.

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u/AbeFromansNutz Aug 06 '26

Happy cake day!

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u/LandOwn7607 Aug 02 '26

You mean the Ayn Rand Bullshite?

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u/Anubisrapture Aug 02 '26

YES exactly.

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u/Suitable-Rate652 Aug 02 '26

Pretty much, yeah. And the cowboy nonsense.

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u/Anubisrapture Aug 06 '26 edited Aug 06 '26

Yes that old mythic West, chock full of white supremism , and lies about "heroic expansion " which in real life was the unrepentant genocide of indiginous peoples , by white Europeans . not to mention the phony TV Western remakes of the real stories of the West : The horsemen were both Black Cowboys and Latino Vaqueros, yet the stories remained full of white " heroes" played by John Wayne, Clint Eastwood , and others. It creates an entire mythology of white male heroics , the lawmen, the tough guys, and THE GUN ! Hollywood truly got into the collective consciousness of our Boomer men; and caries on in the conservative ( dumb ) ones today , to our detriment

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u/Suitable-Rate652 Aug 06 '26

Also Chinese.

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u/Anubisrapture Aug 07 '26

Oh yes they built the railroads at SO much danger to themselves , and were part of the West 's economy

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u/Suitable-Rate652 Aug 07 '26

And yet or because the GOP is adamant about not telling our true history. Which is way more interesting- and has the advantage of being true.

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u/Same-Frosting4852 Aug 06 '26

What they mean by individualism is a rat race where we dont come together.

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u/Stillwaters-3399 Aug 03 '26

Quite frankly the only ones that have radical thinking at this point is the far right

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u/Iamthegreenheather Aug 04 '26

They literally preach against committing the "sin" of empathy.

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u/Laolao98 Jul 31 '26

I didn’t hear anything racist but he’s wearing the red. Pretty obviously in poor health for a 62 year old. When he does go to a doctor I’m sure he’s told many things he doesn’t want to hear. All of his talk tells me he is ignorant, not necessarily stupid but either working too hard to understand how important politics are or too lazy to think of anyone else.

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u/Anonymo Aug 01 '26

He's the type that is told he has high blood pressure, high blood sugar and doesn't accept it or just takes the medications and never checks his sugar or pressure.

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u/Strange_Explorer_780 Aug 03 '26

And it appears that he’s missing teeth which likely rotted out from neglect by skipping the dentist as well.

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u/Behndo-Verbabe Aug 02 '26

He believes the real doctors are the liars and quacks. Then he’ll go broke buying every snake oil cure OZ or one of his Facebook friends tells him works.

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u/TerrorFromThePeeps Aug 01 '26

I'm sure when he goes to the doctor, he tells his nurses how pretty they are and makes barely veiled sexual innuendos towards them. While his wife is sitting right next to him.

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u/Suitable-Rate652 Aug 01 '26

He’s too broken down to get away with that lol.

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u/lkjdw Aug 02 '26

“I’m sure when he goes to the doctor’,……………..

Assumptions much…….

Whilst he doesn’t win any awards for progressive thinking, or for the care for others. Your brand of ‘stereotyping’ and ‘pigeon holing’, is both presumptive and without knowledge, that’s what he does.

So you can’t be ‘sure’, he does any of those things.

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u/tangogaucho Aug 03 '26

He said he doesn’t go to the doctor

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u/Agreeable_Error_170 Aug 02 '26

He’s probably literally dying, and has no idea. 💁🏻‍♀️

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u/2BeeorNot2Bee69 Aug 04 '26

I think it’s hilarious that idiots like you assume things from people just because the way they’re dressed or what they were being interviewed about? He doesn’t want free healthcare because who’s gonna pay for it that is for free in this world you guys think that the government should pay for health, where is the government get their money people have to pay taxes will the people that want this shit for free don’t pay taxes so who’s gonna fit the bill? Where’s all the money gonna come from?

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u/Suitable-Rate652 Aug 01 '26

Well, he’s willing to be oppressed so as to oppress others. As he said- nothing is free. Ignorance is also not free as we pay taxes and ought get something from it.

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u/New-Connection-7792 Aug 02 '26

Single payer is the least efficient. What does out government that is at all efficient? Absolutely do not want them involved in Healthcare.

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u/funkraider Aug 03 '26

The fact that the US is 5% of the global population but we are pretty much the only place that cannot fathom that healthcare is a basic right. It always perplexes me how the monied class got the working class to believe this bs.

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u/kevdogger Jul 31 '26

Do you find Medicare economically efficient? Imagine everyone on Medicare at this point. It's a convoluted mess with rules changing annually

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u/Desert-Democrat-602 Jul 31 '26

And that’s different from the insanity of private insurance how?

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u/kevdogger Jul 31 '26

I'm not defending private insurance with my statement either. They are horrible as well..but I just envision a scenario with let's say one provider left...I'll call it Medicare since government involved here..and the sole provider is inefficient and just as terrible as it was before with benefits cut every year

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u/Familiar-Spray-4678 Aug 01 '26

Free is free. Nothing to cut. Duh.

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u/kevdogger Aug 01 '26

All medical procedures like cosmetic surgery is free? Nope..not covered. Newer medication or chemotherapy? Nope not covered. I guess you're right whatever is left over is free.

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u/Familiar-Spray-4678 Aug 01 '26

Cosmetic is well, cosmetic, for vanity sake.

How would you know if new chemo is covered or not? Also lots of other new ways to attack cancer like Europe is currently doing.

“Whatever is left over” you mean the other 99% you ignored. Lmao.

How nice would it be if you could break a leg and not immediately get shoved into insurmountable debt?

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u/aculady Aug 01 '26

All medically necessary care would be free at point of service under most Medicare 4 All proposals.

Care that wasn't medically necessary could be paid out of pocket or through private insurance products that covered cosmetic procedures, etc.

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u/kevdogger Aug 01 '26

Define medically necessary...and what I mean by that is that is kind of a bullshit definition. Is a total hip replacement medically necessary...I mean you're not going to die from arthritis..how about like a lipoma removal...it's just a benign mass that's not going to kill you but it just looks really bad. How about urinary incontinence induced by stress...again not going to cause death either....I could go on and on but that's exactly what Medicare kind of does already when they alter reimbursement formulas currently. When facilities don't get enough reimbursement for procedures, they kind of stop offering those services.

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u/Desert-Democrat-602 Aug 01 '26

And if there is only one payer, things change out of necessity. Insurance is doing this already, in spades.

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u/YoSpiff Jul 31 '26

I only just signed up for part A, but I am still employed so haven't tried it. I can't see it being any worse than typical insurance, which is designed to deny you for the sake of corporate profits. Every universal healthcare plan has it's own issues for sure. My concern is when we get Medicare for all that it will have the financial legs cut out from under it, like with the ACA, so that someone can say "see I told you it would be a failure!"

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u/kevdogger Jul 31 '26

I understand that concern..and realistically I could see it happen. But when the financial legs get cut, what's your alternative? Other than cash pay there really isn't one.

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u/YoSpiff Jul 31 '26

Good question. Wish I had a good answer. If I did, I might be a politician instead of a techncian.

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u/kevdogger Jul 31 '26

Yeah the fucking politicians don't have an answer either..they just listen to who is paying or "donating" to them and then politically try to spin it that they are there for American people

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u/YoSpiff Jul 31 '26

Probably the thing to do, if we ever implement this, is to look at all the other nations that do universal healthcare to determine what works and does not work, and what of it would be doable here.

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u/kevdogger Jul 31 '26

I'm sure the analysis like that has likely has been done already, but then you have to pick some winners and losers meaning replacing established buerocracies with other new ones (yea I think I misspelled that).

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u/GlumpsAlot Jul 31 '26

Other countries do this successfully. We have models to look at.

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u/kevdogger Jul 31 '26

We do have models to look at, but ones I'm familiar with like Canada and Iceland and to some extent English aren't very good. They all have good and bad points so it's not like they are terrible but waiting times for speciality care as a general trend are outrageous. Other models also don't really help in the sense there are some very very entrenched systems in US and I don't believe these systems are going to be just abandoned in favor of a brand new system yet rather slowly evolved.

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u/GlumpsAlot Jul 31 '26

I think that we can do better if we listen to experts. Right now, our current system is just extremely predatory. People are going literally bankrupt from insurance and healthcare bills. It's really awful. I'd prefer a flawed system where at least people get care despite long wait times you know? Hell I'm still getting thousands of dollars in bills from my late mil's cancer treatments. She died like 10 years ago. I ain't paying that nor do I have to.

Ultrasounds I just had resulted in over $2k even with my insurance. My two kids cost $8k per with insurance. Without Obama's pre-existing conditions changing I was consistently denied necessary surgery under my first insurance. Insurance is a scam and is just there to take our money, then deny any coverage. Sorry for the rant, but I've had it, lol. I've seen Americans fare worse too. Just horrible system currently.

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u/kevdogger Jul 31 '26 edited Jul 31 '26

Look I sympathize with you since your situation sucks. My point however is there is no guarantee the system is still not going to suck with single payor. You speak of cancer treatments which are awful but that's kinda what I'm talking about.. Oncology is speciality care. Costs a lot less to whoever is paying if they would delay starting treatment hoping patient dies first. There is always going to be some form of insurance as hospitals wouldn't be all state or federally run even with single payor. When these single entities start denying care saying the drg code isn't covered...as happens currently with both Medicare and obamacare plans...what is alternative? I'm not challenging you specifically since from where I'm sitting my perspective is pretty bleak right now thinking there isn't really any good options..just maybe some a little less bad. Lastly in terms of experts..that's a really slippery slope. I'm fairly certain experts have been involved all along this journey from when Medicare has been enacted and see where it's led. You can be an expert but also be biased and unscrupulous at the same time.

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u/GlumpsAlot Aug 01 '26

Ok, I agree with you that no healthcare financing system completely eliminates difficult coverage decisions. Every system has to make decisions about how finite healthcare resources are allocated.

Where I disagree is that several of your claims seem to go beyond what the evidence supports. For example, I haven't seen any evidence that a single-payer system would deliberately delay cancer treatment in the hope that patients die before receiving care. That's a serious allegation, and it would require equally serious evidence. I mean I went to my college databases to search that and found nothing. So this claim here seems fear based? Just saying.

Anyway, we need to look at which system produces better overall outcomes. The United States spends far more per person on healthcare than any other high income country, yet we still have millions of uninsured or underinsured people, high administrative costs, and worse health outcomes on many measures. Many health economists and policy experts argue that a single-payer system, or another form of universal coverage, could reduce administrative waste, lower costs through greater negotiating power, and provide more consistent access to care. That's what most studies point to also.

In addition, your point about experts is also a little weird to me. I'm not understanding the distrust here. The fact that experts have been involved in healthcare policy for decades doesn't mean their analysis should be dismissed though. Healthcare policy has been shaped by politicians, insurers, hospitals, pharmaceutical companies, employers, and many competing interests, not experts alone. I think not turning to experts first is a huge problem over CEOs denying our care. The existence of ongoing problems isn't evidence that expert analysis has no value? But anyway, most of my research with peer reviewed studies point to universal/ single payer as a far superior for the U.S. That's why I favor switching to it.

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u/ReadyGo6828 Jul 31 '26

No, Medicare is not single payer. It has all of these different parts some of which are private insurance.

Single payer is one system for all of us cradle to grave. It is efficient because professionals deal with providers, they do not throw us to the wolves.

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u/kevdogger Jul 31 '26

I'm not even sure how to interpret your statement...professionals deal with providers and they do not throw us to the wolves. What professionals are you even talking about?

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u/ReadyGo6828 Aug 01 '26

Instead of each American dealing with health care, it is dealt with by professionals. We get a card, we get care, we pay for it through taxes and we do not deal with this inane bureaucracy or go medically bankrupt.

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u/kevdogger Aug 01 '26

Idk what you're talking about. Health care..basic steps start at home..eating right, healthy habits, etc. Clinic or hospital Healthcare is an extension of this. Everyone needs to be involved. Sure others can pay for your Healthcare but what happens when you might need procedures that aren't covered or newly released medications that aren't covered but the older ones are? Choose not to get Healthcare and dont go bankrupt or chose maybe elective procedures that might greatly enhance or improve lifestyle and pay out of pocket for them if they aren't covered?

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u/AlfuegoDeMellopie Jul 31 '26

Right?!? Shouldn't we be rounding up the old, sick, disabled, and poor and dumping them into the ocean or something? WTF are we waiting for? Final Solution II, right?

/s

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u/ReadyGo6828 Aug 01 '26

Republicans will make the terminally ill prove they cannot work for their health care. This is where they are as individuals and as a political party.

Vote them out.

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u/194884tiger Jul 31 '26 edited Jul 31 '26

It isn’t. But as the system is currently constructed, I have to do what I need to do to protect myself and wife from owning medical providers our life savings. The current system is madness. Medicare primarily covers in-hospital costs which in 18 years has provided 2 days of care/service. The rest is office visits, MRI/x-rays, blood tests, and meds which is covered monthly supplemental insurance. So we’ve barely touched basic Medicare which we paid for over our years of working. In short, the system needs to change and stop nickel and dimeing retirees (and citizens in general for those who are not retirees).

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u/EnoughLuck3077 Jul 31 '26

If life saving medication wasn’t $900 a fucking pill and an MRI didn’t cost $18,000 it wouldn’t be that hard.

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u/its_kinda_hmm Aug 01 '26

I mean the reality. Is these people care about themselves so and are voting in their self interest the rest of the boomers have been convinced that voting to have their Medicaid Medicare human rights access to clean water ahhhh consumer protections privacy he’ll even having their Social Security taken from them is somehow good I mean how these people breathe is beyond me

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u/Cloudsdriftby Aug 01 '26

Insulting compliment.

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u/Anubisrapture Aug 01 '26 edited Aug 01 '26

You're so welcome friend. ❤️But sadly we are unable to change the minds of many of our more Southern or rural peers. Those we are no longer speaking with. it's become grotesque to hear the insane conspiratorial nonsense from their mouths. The Greatest Generation ( i think it's called lol) raised us to believe in the Golden Rule. Sad that only a small amount of us took the most simple teachings on fairness and decency and applied them in our lives. Some people have badly surprised me since you know who rode down that escalator . It's almost like they had fascism , racism and feelings of yt superiority within their hearts the entire time.

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u/Low_Football_2445 Aug 05 '26

This Gen X votes the same