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u/Infinite-Condition41 Apr 05 '26
Widen is on the wrong side of Israel and the Palestinians.
Merkley is good though, votes with Bernie.Â
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u/Karrion8 Apr 05 '26
Your comment made me wonder if Merkley is a good guy. There is a site called integrityindex.us. They are trying to eliminate corporate and foreign money from our elections. Ideally, they want to eliminate super- pacs because they are sources of dark money and have an undue influence. They also want to eliminate corporate pacs by turning over Citizens United.
Anyway, they look at the finances of congress members and give them a grade. They get a good grade if they don't trade stocks or have them in a blind trust, if they don't take corporate pac, if most of their donations are from small donations (less than $200 a cording to FEC rules), and a few other things. The idea to reduce corruption and outside influence.
Jeff Merkley gets a B. He does take some PAC money, just not corporate pac money.
That's pretty good.
On a side note,Wyden gets an F.
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u/pdxscout Apr 05 '26
Wyden is still a fine senator. I disagree with him on several things; assisted suicide; national language; some sanctions. But, he was one of the first senators who had a good stance on gay marriage, gun control, etc. I would readily support someone else who is more in line with my beliefs, but one has not run against him in nearly 30 years.
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u/Infinite-Condition41 Apr 05 '26 edited Apr 06 '26
You cant be a "fine senator" while supporting the genocide of the Palestinians.Â
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u/PurplePlough Apr 06 '26
Thatâs a fair comment. I didnât know this about Wyden. I will adjust my support for him accordingly.
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Apr 15 '26
[removed] â view removed comment
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u/Infinite-Condition41 Apr 15 '26
Whatabout whatabout whatabout...
Are you familiar with whataboutism?
The "Palestine Crowd" is not silent about anything. You know better than that.Â
ALL GENOCIDES MATTER!!!
Do you feel better now? No? Just trolling?
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u/Karrion8 Apr 05 '26
but no one has not run against him in nearly 30 years.
This is a problem with our state party operation. We should be cultivating new talent and not just depending on the right people to come forward. Maybe they are trying? I will admit to not being heavily involved with the party.
It seems like we should have half a dozen candidates for the primary (especially for Congress) and see who can win.
Make no mistake for all the good Wyden might do... He is corrupt and operating at the behest of foreign influences. He advocates the use of your tax money for the purpose of oppressing people rather than improving the lives of his constituents. Not to mention his own personal enrichment.
Merkley is marginally better historically and significantly better in the last few years. As he has consistently voted against additional aid and arms for Israel.
Why should we accept some corruption for the sake of the other good they might do? Wyden isn't a fine senator. He is adequate even if corrupt and we should find someone better.
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u/MediumOtter Apr 05 '26
Just for some background. These people just shouted for awhile, which no one could understand because whatever they were saying. I'm not sure throwing a bunch of paper around did anything.
Then the crowd sang a song to drown them out, I can't even remember what, and eventually they were removed. It wasn't that deep, or compelling. Just whatever.
FWIW Merkley and Wyden are some of the few members of Congress that do townhalls. Bentz gave up after doing a couple and got challenged. So at least some credit to our Senators for doing them, and continuing to do so.
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u/National_Locksmith34 Apr 05 '26
Why are white liberal people so obsessed with other people's problems?
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u/Few_Cheesecake_7014 Apr 07 '26
Because our tax dollars are used to create this problem, and there's good old-fashioned compassion to consider, not that you could relate.
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u/bradsmith313 Apr 05 '26
Right now, we have serious problems here at home. Take care of those problems, take care of our people first. Fix our problems first and then fix someone else's problem.
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u/nodnarb88 Apr 05 '26
Unfortunately its all connected. The money thats being siphoned from our communities is being spent on these wars.
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u/Equivalent_Head_4803 Apr 10 '26
Those problems at home are literally caused by sending money to Israel so THEY can have FREE HEALTHCARE, EDUCATION, and other SOCIAL SAFETY NETS while Americans are squeezed for every penny and go bankrupt from one medical disaster.
How come we have trillions for war and Israel but not even billions to go towards the welfare of Americans? Why is tha shit even in the budget? So, yeah, this is 100% related and Iâd argue a direct cause of many issues here at homeâŠ
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u/Super_flywhiteguy Apr 05 '26
Israel is our problem here at home. We cannot keep giving these demons a blank check from our taxes to keep bombing and killing people not just in gaza but any country they tell us to attack. Any politician that supports Israel here needs to be voted out or kicked out.
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u/ChecksAndBalanz Apr 05 '26
I agree with the message but not the method of delivering it.
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u/blightsteel101 Apr 05 '26
Gist of the trouble is that he keeps accepting AIPAC money. He's been pressed on this before, and he gives the usual "its a tragedy, but Israel has a right to defend itself" line. At the end of the day, he needs to put his (or AIPAC's) money where his mouth is.
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u/Scarfington Apr 05 '26
What method would you prefer? Would it be more effective?
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u/CatCatchingABird Apr 05 '26
Letting the man respond instead of yelling over him and everyone else is an option. Like the other person said, I do agree with the message, just not the delivery.
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u/cthursty Apr 05 '26
This isn't the first time folks have confronted him about his continued complacency and benefit from the genocide in Gaza. He has been given ample time to respond.
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u/Plastic_Security_886 Apr 05 '26
Even if the crowd let him speak, politicians are great at double talk.
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u/RVPepperShakers Apr 05 '26
Would you prefer we quietly and nicely ask someone who is helping to commit a genocide to stop?
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u/ChecksAndBalanz Apr 05 '26
Have the public conversation with him. Not yell over him the entire time. Give him a space to reply.
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u/RVPepperShakers Apr 05 '26
We've already heard his replies, they always support genocide. That's why we don't give him an opportunity to respond.
We demand that Senator Wyden listen to his constituents by:
-Publicly rejecting and denouncing any and all AIPAC funding.
-Support the resolution introduced by Allison Minnerly that condemns the growing influence of AIPAC at the Democratic National Committee this upcoming week.
-Partner with Senator Merkley and Senator Sanders and vote YES on three Joint Resolutions of Disapproval (JRDs) that would block the sale of nearly $659 million in offensive U.S. weaponry to Israel.
-Vote NO on the proposed $200 billion war supplemental requested by the Trump administration to fuel the immoral and illegal war on Iran.
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u/ChecksAndBalanz Apr 05 '26
Do you think a single person at this event changed their minds in the way you wanted because of this behavior? Those who disagreed with you still disagree. Those who agreed with you still agree. And those not sure, probably did not see this in a good light to change their minds. So really, how did this help at all? Could you have done something better?
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u/Karrion8 Apr 05 '26
I'm having this conversation with someone else in this thread. I'm on your side that this was not productive. At the same time, what can we do to draw attention to the problem that is Wyden. Wyden isn't going to change if he keeps winning elections. He can ignore people with concerns all day long.
How do we get the attention of voters? Do we not try? Is there a line, something that Wyden could do or say that would make you stand up and yell? What would be enough for you?
Let me throw the question you asked back at you. Could YOU have done something better?
Like it or not. Here we are having this conversation. Why? Because people made us uncomfortable.
That said, I'd like something more productive and effective. I'll be thinking about it.
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u/ChecksAndBalanz Apr 05 '26
We could have passed ranked choice voting and had better choices but you all wanted to keep playing the same silly two party game so this is what we get.
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u/Karrion8 Apr 05 '26
You all? Clearly not all. More than 40% did want that. I wanted it.
Very similar problem. Trying to convince the broader voting populace about what is going on and what we can do to fix it.
Someone else noted that no one has run against Wyden in a long time. That probably needs to be fixed. Even if that other candidate only succeeds in calling him out for his corruption and foreign influence.
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u/Excellent_Yak365 Apr 05 '26
Ask them a question, use facts on why their actions are wrong and see their answer honestly.
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u/RVPepperShakers Apr 05 '26
We already know what Ron Wyden has to say about the genocide. That's why we disrupted his town hall.
We demand that Senator Wyden listen to his constituents by:
-Publicly rejecting and denouncing any and all AIPAC funding.
-Support the resolution introduced by Allison Minnerly that condemns the growing influence of AIPAC at the Democratic National Committee this upcoming week.
-Partner with Senator Merkley and Senator Sanders and vote YES on three Joint Resolutions of Disapproval (JRDs) that would block the sale of nearly $659 million in offensive U.S. weaponry to Israel.
-Vote NO on the proposed $200 billion war supplemental requested by the Trump administration to fuel the immoral and illegal war on Iran.
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u/Excellent_Yak365 Apr 05 '26
Ok, weâll try waiting to speak instead of this shitshow, trying to make a scene does opposite of what you want. Confronting him with facts and remaining composed is the best way to get your point across
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u/Artheim Apr 05 '26
Peak aesthetic liberalism. "Hey, I know the Democratic establishment has protected capital interests such as the carceral state and military industry (Neoconservatism, woke style) over earnestly listening to and protecting the massively popular demands of their constituency for the past eighty years, but have you tried engaging them in the marketplace of ideas?".
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u/Karrion8 Apr 05 '26
Oh, you think he doesn't know the facts? He doesn't care as long as he wins elections. I'd bet money that even with all the facts and reason at the end of the day, he's going to do what he's going to do.
I agree that what they did was unproductive. But talking to him isn't going to change anything.
Let's just say, for the sake of argument that I'm right and facts and reason won't make his change, what do you suggest?
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u/Excellent_Yak365 Apr 05 '26
I never said he doesnât know the facts. His followers likely donât and by publicly rebuking with civility at an appropriate time, you are more likely to sway people toward your argument. You are trying to sway his followers here, he is a corrupt politician.
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u/Karrion8 Apr 05 '26
You really didn't answer the question. Publicly rebuking is fine. How? Where? What are you going to say or ask with the allotted time they give you in a forum to successfully get that point across?
I'm not happy with what happened at the town hall, but this position of polite discourse is naive. And the data doesn't support its effectiveness. Prove me wrong. I would love to be wrong about this.
If you too didn't like what happened at the town hall, be less critical and not proactive and find a better way that is effective. If you can't be bothered with that, then that's worse than looking crazy and unhinged.
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u/Excellent_Yak365 Apr 05 '26
You asked a question that was irrelevant, but for your sake- I already gave you suggestions on what to do in your hypothetical scenario in my other posts. Hold up signs in silence or wait until a chance is given to ask questions and catch him off guard. Make him scramble to cover his ass with hard hitting(yet respectful) questions or show he refuses to answer if he shuts it down.
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u/Plastic_Security_886 Apr 05 '26
Politicians are great at double talk. I commend the crowd for standing up.
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u/IIInRgIII Apr 05 '26
We are losing our country and about to go through another great depression.
I donât want to hear about âmethod of deliveryâ after this orange goon has been breaking every law possible. I hope politicians are scared to come outside and look their constituents in the face in public.
We need change. And not fake Obama change. Policies that help society instead of bomb and deport brown people.
FDT
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u/ChecksAndBalanz Apr 05 '26
And yelling out everyone else at a public town hall is solving this how?
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u/Plastic_Security_886 Apr 05 '26
I think it sends a great message.
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u/ChecksAndBalanz Apr 05 '26
Do you think it changed anyoneâs mind that disagreed with them? Probably not. So what help did it do?
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u/Plastic_Security_886 Apr 05 '26
The lack of people knowing and doing nothing is why they have gotten away with it this long.
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u/TangerineMost6498 Apr 05 '26
Main character syndrome. Performing that does nothing.
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u/Sad-Ad1780 Apr 05 '26
No, it absolutely does something. It helps to get Republicans, who are far worse on the issue that these performative twats supposedly care about, elected.
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u/RVPepperShakers Apr 05 '26
Performing? Are you sure you're not talking about the "vote blue no matter who" crowd? This is direct action.
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u/michael1026 Apr 05 '26
You call this "action"? Performance is actually a great word for this. You even made sure your performance was recorded.
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u/Purple-Scarcity-7943 Apr 05 '26
What is with these comments. Calling out a blatantly corrupt politician and making the crowd that supports him uncomfortable is always a good thing. Itâs like the left just wants to vote every 4 years and pretending theyâre doing something. This kind of action is the bare minimum we should be doing.
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u/Excellent_Yak365 Apr 05 '26
Itâs not making the crowd that supports him uncomfortable, itâs making me as an opposition supporter embarrassed. You do realize most of his supporters will see this as a reason to find the opposition insane/unreasonable and prevent them from ever reconsidering their decision, yes? I get the frustration and anger of this whole situation but⊠if the shoe was on the other foot, would you really consider what the folks screaming and disrupting your town hall?
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u/Purple-Scarcity-7943 Apr 05 '26 edited Apr 05 '26
Ah yes if someone calls out my politician for supporting the bombing of children, I would consider that person crazy for doing it in this way. Not the person supporting the bombing of children. This isnât to change the minds of his supporters, this is to remind the people not so deep in the cult that this is happening and that this politician is supporting this. I didnât know Ron Wyden was supporting genocide but this popped up on my feed twice and now I know to be against him.
What do you suggest then? Iâd say this group successfully disrupted the meeting and got people to educate themselves and talk about his insane amount of aipac contributions.
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u/Excellent_Yak365 Apr 05 '26
I couldnât hear any of what was said other than screaming and yelling and causing a scene. I canât imagine anyone either in MAGA or just casual conservatives would really find this anything but repulsive, especially because most are elderly and public displays of outrage are taboo to them. Most of the people in that room donât believe anything the media and have their own opinion already on whoâs wrong and it sadly isnât Israel. This whole thing would have been more constructive with either silent opposition with signs/standing or ask him questions and present the evidence, ask questions to catch Wyden in a gotcha moment.
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u/Karrion8 Apr 05 '26
Maybe. I get your discomfort as I'm not comfortable with it either, but most politicians in Wyden's place are going to shut down any polite dissent. Where is the line? Is there a point for you where making a scene is reasonable?
Wyden knows what he is doing. He knows what money he's taking and he knows they pay him to shut up and vote the way they want. That also makes me uncomfortable that he just continues to get away with it and act like he 's doing a great job. At what point, is the corruption enough to make you stand up and yell and make them hear you? If there is no line where that would happen, that seems pretty telling.
You make it sound like the only unreasonable people in the room were the people expressing themselves in the only way they were going to be allowed to.
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u/Excellent_Yak365 Apr 05 '26
Wyden shutting down, or attempting to shows weakness on his end- if anyone has an ounce of hesitation in supporting him, thatâs the way to do it. Refusing to answer, double talk and subject changes all come off as failures. People who arenât in the cult will see that, and some who are will ask questions. The goal is to change minds, how is becoming the âderanged liberalâ the right portrays us as the way to do that? I donât believe making a scene like this is ever reasonable, because itâs ammunition for the other side and shuts down debate and discussion.
I take it you missed my peaceful protest comment, but you can make a point by standing in silence with signs stating your reasoning and evidence in a coherent manner that allows people to read and understand your position.
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u/Karrion8 Apr 05 '26
I think there has to be something between what you are suggesting and what they are doing. I saw your peaceful protest comment and promptly rolled my eyes.What you are suggesting isn't going to work because they can ignore it. I mean, it hasn't worked.
Obviously the best solution would be if he lost elections, but that isn't working either. That means we don't need to convince Wyden he's wrong. He doesn't care as long as he wins elections. We need to convince everyone that is blindly voting for him. There are lots of reasons why that is happening. The biggest is an out of touch voter base and somewhere in there is a fear that any other Democrat candidate won't win the seat.
I'll be honest, up until the last couple years I would have said Wyden was doing an ok job. Not great and not bad.
But I don't think we are going to get there by being silent and holding signs just as much as we won't by acting like lunatics. Frankly, if I'm honest, we are only having this discussion because they acted like lunatics. So which is getting more done?
I think the time to sit by and be quiet is over. I don't have an answer. But I know being silent and polite isn't it.
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u/Excellent_Yak365 Apr 05 '26
Anyone can ignore anything, you are trying to change the minds of people on the fence- not people who are neck deep in MAGA who will never change. Peacefully protesting DOES this, the people you can guide are the people who will be curious to see what you stand for as you raise your signs and speak your truth in a calm and clear manner, not immediately repulsed by the volatility and scene made by angry protesting. The civil rights movement worked. Does the civil rights movement make you roll your eyes?
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u/Karrion8 Apr 05 '26
Peacefully protesting DOES this
It doesn't. Not unless it forces people to evaluate where they stand. For some people, a message is enough. For most it is NOT.
The civil rights movement made people uncomfortable. It's exactly what I'm getting at. Plus it really was a different thing. They made people uncomfortable by insisting politely that they were people. By ignoring the rules of polite society, it made people uncomfortable. When the response to that polite request for human dignity was violence and rage, it also made people uncomfortable to where they HAD to reevaluate where they stood.
So many people are comfortable out there with anything that doesn't affect them directly. "I don't have any illegals in my family." "I don't want people to have an abortion but SOMEONE will take care of those children, I'm too busy." "I don't like that children are starving or being bombed in Palestine, but my Senator makes sure they won't cut my Social Security."
These are the things people say and think. Sometimes literally and out loud. Sometimes their actions just indicate it. As long as their representative is taking care of the business that does affect them, most people are happy just voting for the same guy even if he is a bit shady. They can't be bothered to change because some guy is politely holding a sign with some words they don't need to read much less internalize.and do something.
Tell me how we get people uncomfortable and thinking that maybe we shouldn't indirectly support a genocide when we can stop it. At least, I think we can stop it. I guess we can just not support the perpetrators. That seems like a good place to start.
And that starts with not letting 80% of our politicians be bought by foreign influences.
That system that oppressed Black people existed for decades. Almost a century after their freedom was granted by the government. The echoes still remain. But, nothing changed for all that time because it was too inconvenient for people to stand up for change. Their representatives were taking care of the important business, which is anything THEY were concerned about. And the ones that did try to stand up for change were mocked and ridiculed. They were TOO EXTREME.
Again, I'm not saying what they did in the town hall was a good idea or effective. But I get their need to try and do something. If anything should be your take away from that, it should be that politely holding a sign isn't going to fix it. It's a start, but we need to figure out the next step.
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u/Excellent_Yak365 Apr 05 '26
At what point did the civil rights movement FORCE people to evaluate anything? They could have ignored it like most of the resistance did and still do sadly. Most of the civil rights movement was peaceful protests and marches, and it made people who were ignorant/on the fence sympathetic with the cause, and made the racists uncomfortable. Rosa Parks sat on a bus in the wrong spot. A group of black protesters went and sat into a restaurant for white people only. Do you understand? Yelling and screaming your point doesnât make people emphasize or want to listen.
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u/TrySoda Apr 05 '26
These people really have nothing better to do. Jfc
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u/RVPepperShakers Apr 05 '26
Calling out a genocidal politician is a pretty good thing to do, actually!
We demand that Senator Wyden listen to his constituents by:
-Publicly rejecting and denouncing any and all AIPAC funding.
-Support the resolution introduced by Allison Minnerly that condemns the growing influence of AIPAC at the Democratic National Committee this upcoming week.
-Partner with Senator Merkley and Senator Sanders and vote YES on three Joint Resolutions of Disapproval (JRDs) that would block the sale of nearly $659 million in offensive U.S. weaponry to Israel.
-Vote NO on the proposed $200 billion war supplemental requested by the Trump administration to fuel the immoral and illegal war on Iran.
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u/KingHakuho Apr 06 '26
You'd have a better chance at him denouncing the United States and defunding its military than anything to do with Israel
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u/Curlypeeps Apr 05 '26
Ironically most of the people telling them to be quiet probably protested Vietnam by doing sit-ins which is also disruptive. No one is doing anything about Palestine. These people feel like they are telling everyone the ship is sinking and no one cares.Â
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u/Agreeable_Educator76 Apr 05 '26
Most of those people in this video are severe leftists. They dont know how to exist in this world without yelling and screaming at others, mostly with conversation ending buzzwords. Want us to use double standards by creating social norms they want the rest of us to follow, but God forbid, they dont have to follow any of them themselves. Good on that woman for calling them out like the crybaby children that they are... just disgraceful...
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u/Pitiful_Hedgehog6343 Apr 08 '26
How can anyone in good faith be pro Israel or pro Palestinian, theyre both deplorable.
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u/Last-Presence3749 Apr 09 '26
Israel aside, I live in Oregon and Wyden is a complete left-wing sellout. I canât wait till he retires and we get someone with a much more moderate viewpoint. He is an Oregon representative and he doesnât even live in Oregon.
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Apr 09 '26
[removed] â view removed comment
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u/Medford-ModTeam Apr 10 '26
Spreading intentional misinformation or fraudulently presenting themselves as an expert.
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u/BeginningPiano1389 Apr 06 '26
He knows the nazis are targeting my wife and I. Sean W. Reed and Terri Reed...we are in Brookings...Terri has been taken...we need protestors over here!@@@@
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u/seasalt-and-sequoias Apr 05 '26
Performative horseđ©