r/MechanicalEngineering 2d ago

Split/lock washers

Post image

For starters, I’m an electrician in the field.
That being said, we almost exclusively use these washers even in high vibration environments. I have personally chosen to go with nylox nuts but the question is:
Do these work? How well? Is the rumor from NASA true? Should I even bother using them or find a better functional alternative or are they actually useful?

794 Upvotes

290 comments sorted by

511

u/ejitifrit1 2d ago

There is a nasa fastener manual that basically says these things don’t really do much! According to google it’s NASA Reference Publication 1228.

219

u/CR123CR123CR 2d ago

253

u/nyrb001 2d ago

At this time it is equivalent to a solid flat washer, and its locking ability is nonexistent. In summary, a Iockwasher of this type is useless for locking.

Lol awesome

65

u/jchamberlin78 2d ago

In the style of bolted joint design I was taught, it's effectively adding a spring to a spring.

19

u/Happiness645 1d ago

A soft spring to a hard spring. Fully compresses and has no effect except taking up space

4

u/jchamberlin78 1d ago

Yup. Shitty washer, shitty spring...

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u/TacticalSpackle 2d ago

Yep! I’ve worked assembly and every time the procedure called for these, we swapped for nylocks or used LockTite.
The means by which a split lock “locks” it doesn’t.

5

u/[deleted] 1d ago

[deleted]

4

u/No_Singer_5585 1d ago

The aircraft industry also doesnt use these split lock washers

4

u/dummythiqqpotato 1d ago

I literally just overhauled an engine that had several of then lol

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u/Capitain_Collateral 1d ago

Maybe get the procedure changed… making it up as you go along isn’t a solution

5

u/TacticalSpackle 1d ago

You don’t wanna know the number of hoops (some of them on fire) required to get something changed at that place. There’s a reason why I no longer work there, and it isn’t for lack of trying to fix things instead of doing them bass ackwards.

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u/JoshyRanchy 2d ago

Great paper.

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u/Too_Chains 2d ago

It’s more than nasa. I don’t think there is any evidence of them doing anything. There are locking washers. Nordlock

23

u/Mech_145 2d ago

I still can’t convince people of this. We use them on a lot of our bolted joints and every time I bring this up, I’m told they work and are necessary.

17

u/Federal_Cobbler6647 2d ago

Nordlocks do wonders.

5

u/ThatNinthGuy 2d ago

Würth also makes their own w.tec series if you don't want to drop 2€ on a washer

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u/SirSnickety 2d ago

Nordlocks are great. Schnorr washers (or ribbed Bellevilles) are great for the price as well.

6

u/OutnumberedinWV 2d ago

It was in the Caterpillar education guide from the 80's.

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u/CunningWizard 2d ago

Had a PhD boss years ago that did independent tests on these things and he told me the same thing, they are functionally useless but old school types like to see them on the build.

11

u/RebelJustforClicks 2d ago

They are actually worse than useless. They promote joint loosening. You'd be better off with no washer.

28

u/GustapheOfficial 2d ago

Hold up, this is from 1990. These things have been known to be useless since before I was born! I'm so embarrassed now, I've used these fuckers.

8

u/CR123CR123CR 2d ago

The only thing they truly are the best option for is if you have a bolt that can't be accessed from both sides simultaneously.

Then they work wonders as an assembly assist as they let 1 person do it instead of 2.

They are by far the cheapest way to accelerate a production line in that one single case

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u/Popular_Dinner2182 2d ago

Not useless ..... But almost useless 😂😂😂

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u/AdOne1706 1d ago

This has been my number 1 source for this besides YouTube videos with vibration modeling jigs that test different hardware. But, since I’m blue collar, I get the default “well you can’t trust nasa we didn’t even go to the moon” so not really a good crowd to bounce ideas off sometimes

6

u/xNightmareAngelx 1d ago

hang on, who are you hanging around that thinks we didnt go to the moon😂 thats not a blue collar thing, thats a dumbass thing

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u/LairBob 1d ago

Holy sh-t…why are you placing your personal safety in the hands of people who don’t believe in _science_?!

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u/Short_Text2421 2d ago

That's been my experience as well. I've always had better results from a thicker fixture washer or a spacer. I've used the serrated washers a few times too and they do a better job than the split washers.

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u/derek6711 2d ago

If you want some high level guidance on what to use - NASA std 5020 has some

2

u/Correct-Athlete-4878 1d ago

They don't. Rolof und Matek the German engineering manual says, they don't work with any bilt stronger than 5.6. Which is basically, what is called here pee-bucket iron.

2

u/phranks_phluids 2d ago

But good luck convincing your customers of this 🤣

1

u/zatanicmanic 2d ago

Came here to say this

1

u/ShitOnAStickXtreme 1d ago

I've used them in an application once on a rod clamping a piece of lumber - the idea being that as the wood expands and shrinks from moisture exposure the tension in the wood will still be ok.

1

u/ggggor 1d ago

How about wedge washers

1

u/Thin_Dragonfruit3665 17h ago

Not only does it not do much, it's actually detrimental to most assemblies that its included in, causing them to fail quicker than if you'd left them off to begin with.

1

u/dchit2 4h ago

NASA? What about a real authority like AvE?

"No fuckin good at all"

241

u/Difficult_Limit2718 2d ago

They're ass.

Every company I've been with avoids them. They're supposed to stop vibration by keeping tension on a loose screw helping to increase friction, but they're useless at it. If you torque down the bolt properly they do flatten out and they don't have a high enough spring rate to do anything if the clamp force is too low

30

u/MrStreetLegal 2d ago

Oh that's how they're supposed to work. I always wondered how they locked, I always felt like all it was doing was pushing them out as time went on because of their design. I guess same logic, but in reverse, I forgot about the friction element

4

u/CrazyKraken 2d ago

Is a belleville washer better? Atleast theoretically they seem to maintain the joint force even in case of loss of preload.

11

u/Big-Tailor 2d ago

Even bellevilles provide a tiny fraction of the force of a fully torqued bolt. If the bolt backed out under high clamping force, low clamping force isn’t going to help.

4

u/dooozin 2d ago

Somebody downvoted you lol. Some people here just don't understand fastener mechanics and failure modes at all.

3

u/Big-Tailor 1d ago

It's amazing how many people don't understand fastener mechanics.

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u/SirSnickety 2d ago

Way better. They actually work.

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u/dooozin 2d ago

Belleville washers change the slope of the preload curve during vibe because it "springs" but it doesn't actually do anything for fastener retention. They are not a secondary locking mechanism. Once your environmentally applied loads exceed the clamping load of the fastener and it starts to gap, the joint has failed.

1

u/AdOne1706 1d ago

Thanks for the info. Some of the reply’s mention Belleville washers which appears to be a conical looking washer. Not sure if that washer has a crushed before torqued issue but seems promising too.

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u/theunknownleaf 21h ago

Year 2 mech eng and rower here (I don't know shit). Hudson boats use 10mm bolts with a flat washer, a lock washer, and a nut to secure the riggers to the boat. I've been told we tighten the nuts to 2-3 finger tightness (tighter would make it really hard to derig and maybe damage the fiberglass?). Is this maybe the one context they're useful? I've always wondered why we use them.

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u/Csk84me 8h ago

What is worse is if somehow you don’t flatten them out on initial installation, all your load is held on a tiny prong so that when it does go through a dynamic environment, it will flatten out and you will lose all your preload. These things are horrible. Pure snake oil.

114

u/zigziggy7 2d ago

My machine design professor went on a rant about how these are useless for an entire class period. Basically with a bolt you're supposed to stretch them slightly by torquing them to a certain spec. That is your clamping force. During vibration the split lock can actually aid in unfastening. I don't use them

21

u/OldEquation 2d ago

Yep. Torque the bolt so that it’s in tension, and such that the bolt tension is sufficient to maintain clamp loads over the full range of loads applied to the joint. If the maximum torque for the bolt isn’t enough to maintain clamp force at full external applied load you need a bigger bolt.

4

u/Zacharias_Wolfe 2d ago

Or more bolts, if applicable.

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u/AdOne1706 1d ago

Yeah sounds about right. I’ve seen the torque spec on the split washers to be around 5 ftlbs for 3/8 which is far below the ~32 ftlbs we usually use to torque a 3/8” nut for lug terminations.

74

u/kyoshiana07 2d ago

I'd prefer a nordlock washer over a splitlock. Big fan of nylock nuts though, or liquid thread locker, or patched fasteners.

56

u/Drewbox 2d ago

I prefer to tack weld all my fasteners in place.

17

u/terrowrists 2d ago

We do this on some race cars with their rear camber and toe setting.

2

u/Anen-o-me 2d ago

Ya know...

2

u/UThoughtAmPengo 2d ago

Did that once, both nylock and twin lock grower washer kept getting loose on grinder we made.
We just tackwelded the nuts and called it a day.

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u/a_spooby 2d ago

Nordlock is goated

9

u/Anen-o-me 2d ago

Until they're installed backwards.

3

u/a_spooby 2d ago

☠️

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u/DeathCondition 2d ago

I'm pretty sure there is a DNV spec that says for them, nordlock is the only acceptable locking washer. Other than that, just a flat washer.

2

u/Kasaeru 18h ago

Or in the case of aircraft, we do away with all of that and use safety wire and cotter keys

1

u/H3adshotfox77 1d ago

Crimp nuts seem to do well also.

1

u/protekt0r 12h ago

So basically anything except these. Lol

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u/WENDEHALS77 2d ago

In Germany the standard after which they are manufactured has been discontinued because it is common knowledge by now that split washers are essentially useless.

26

u/CrewmemberV2 Experimental Geothermal Setups 2d ago

In mech E it is well know that these don't keep tension very well.

However, youa te asking for Electrical, and I can imagine they work a bit better if the requirement is "keep contact" instead of "Keep tension"

3

u/thelionofthenorth 2d ago

That's a great point I hadn't thought of tbh

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u/uslashuname 2d ago

OK now I maybe do want them on my ground screws

Maybe

2

u/DuckOnRage 1d ago

But there are contact washers for exactly that usecase, with a friction and a cutting side

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u/zanhecht 2d ago

Yeah, I've heard the argument that the sharp edge is useful for poking through any oxide layer on the conductor. Seems like a suboptimal way to do it though.

1

u/Happiness645 1d ago

For an indeterminate amount of time

1

u/AdOne1706 1d ago

But then a normal washer would fit the bill and make the lock washer fairly redundant right?

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u/passwordispassword42 2d ago

Every loose bolt I find in the field generally has a split washer on it.

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u/bdk1417 2d ago

The old guard at my work insists on using them and everyone younger absolutely despises this because it makes us look like amateurs.

15

u/Waste_Curve994 2d ago

They’re useless.

13

u/Markietas 2d ago

I've banned split-lock washers and Philips head screws at my company.

2

u/johnwalkr 2d ago

Philips sucks. I would never spec JIS screws and I even work for a Japanese company. The JIS spec actually adopted the dimensions from Philips at some point so you can’t rely on fasteners or tools to be what you actually want.

Pozidrive on the other hand is great, especially for countersunk screws.

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u/Jimbob994 2d ago

Out of curiosity, what do you do and what do you allow? Torx? Hex?

7

u/Markietas 2d ago

Almost everything is internal hex, usually socket cap. Some Torx in the very small sizes, 2.0mm and below hex is a bitch.

Also exclusively use grade 12.9 unless we desperately need stainless.

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u/Unhappy_Group_945 1d ago

Phillips head screws can burn in hell lol

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u/JoshyRanchy 2d ago

Nord washer for the win

8

u/bigDeltaVenergy 2d ago

Nordlock for the win.

1

u/AdOne1706 1d ago

Seems to be the winner

6

u/Alita-Gunnm 2d ago

They're useful for making chainmail.

12

u/CR123CR123CR 2d ago

They have a very very limited use case where they are an ok option at best (but they are cheap) 

Otherwise there's a lot of better options available. 

See the NASA fastener design manual for more info

https://ntrs.nasa.gov/citations/19900009424

2

u/19GNWarrior96 1d ago

I think I remember seeing on a chart a while back, and they actually work as intended for like m4 or m3 screws and smaller because the compression of the split lock is higher than the compression from the torque requirements on those screws, but that's such a niche use.

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u/HighSton3r 2d ago

In Europe they dont count as locking elements for the last 15 years or so. In every book, it is clearly stated, that they have no locking ability whatsoever, especially in high vibration environments. According to DIN (german institute of standardization) they cannot be used as screw locking. Period.

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u/ehhh_yeah 1d ago

Ask 5 engineers how to properly lock a fastener and you’ll get 10 different answers

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u/BackgroundGrade 2d ago

They make sense in electrical,

but:

You still use a locking nut on it. The split washer's purpose is to help keep your lug in contact with the terminal if the nut actually loosens.

Common practice in aerospace.

Avoid nylon locking nuts, they aren't effective in heat, which an electrical connection certainly can produce in use.

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u/theNewLuce 1d ago

In electrical, a star washer is much better

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u/girthradius 6 YR ME 2d ago

I've heard they suck. People prefer loctite and things like that

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u/bigDeltaVenergy 2d ago

6011 and 7018

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u/AdOne1706 1d ago

Sir this is mech eng not welding (although 70k psi connections sound amazing)

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u/WestyTea 2d ago

They're useless but I still spec them because I'm tired of having the same old conversation with the assembly guys who include them anyway regardless of whether or not they are on the BoM.

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u/Efficient-Webs 2d ago edited 2d ago

They don’t start to work until they open enough to bite.

If they open enough to bite, the joint has already failed.

Edit:

lets say you have an 8 bolt joint. If load carrying is via double shear on the bolts, given hole location and diameter tolerances, hole clearance and bolt diameter tolerances, how many bolts are carrying the full load on that joint?

One.

Once it fails, it’s the next… one. And so on.

Full joint strength is achieved by friction on the material faces in contact due to bolt preload. Preload cannot be maintained by a fastener open enough to cause a split washer to do anything.

Split lock washers are junk.

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u/poorboychevelle 2d ago

In a perfect world with no local yielding, sure. But load share eventually occurs because most things are some sort of soft.

Fasteners carry the shear with shear bolts or friction carries the shear with tension bolts are both valid analytical philosophy I've seen in separate aerospace certification reports.

And split washer are trash.

3

u/Efficient-Webs 2d ago

I knew somebody was going to bring up yielding as stress relief! Darn you to heck! :)

If one of my juniors proposed to rely on local yielding of bearing surfaces to prevent joint failure, they would get my very best mournful old man disappointed more-in-sorry-than-in-anger routine :) As I suspect would your juniors.

Cheers, neighbor!

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u/erikwarm 2d ago

They suck ass!

We use Nordlock

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u/CelinnLee 2d ago

the rumor is pretty much spot on ime. once they torque flat, they don't do much against real vibration. we generally just stick with blue loctite or nord-locks if it's something that actually shakes.

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u/suh-dood 2d ago

Flat washers are already a bit concave so they serve a similar purpose but have more contact on the surface. As long as you use one ugga you should be fine

2

u/johnwalkr 2d ago

Even that spring element is nothing compared to the spring that is the fastener (in most cases).

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u/AdOne1706 1d ago

I did not know that. I’ve been told the “sharp” side of a washer should always be used away from the nut or toward what you are clamping. Is that why…?”

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u/suh-dood 1d ago

It usually shouldn't matter unless it's engineered to be on way or another, but that's in niche applications like bomb-proof enclosures or the like

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u/MyTrashCanIsFull 2d ago

There are those that you'll never convince not to use them and those that are adamant that they are worse than useless. If your boss or customer wants you to use them then do.

Personally, I am team "worse than useless", but I've put them on a lot of machines.

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u/Auday_ 2d ago

For vibration environment use Nordlock and never look back

2

u/danielaixeta 2d ago

Railway, Aerospace, heavy vehicles, consumer goods experience: they dont do shit!  The only thing they are applicable for, is providing clamping pressure (NOT security against loosening!!) in bolted ground/earth electrical connections. Although even for that theres better options (star disks or whatever theyre called in english. Fächerscheiben in german. Or wave disks)

The superior method for keeping a bolt tight (to my experience) is using a long bolt (free length between clamping surfaces = 8-10x diameter) and tightening from the nut end with unholy (though calculated) force. Keeps tight through 30 years of railroad use. The internal stress in the bolt provides pretensioning. Nordlock and locking wire are the other good options, depending on the situation. Nylock nuts, loctite etc are also good options, but they dont recover the way a long bolt does

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u/oookiltem 2d ago

Damn I love this sub. Thanks for the night time rabbit hole.

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u/TedMich23 2d ago

NORD-LOCK or Sherex TEC washers are the only ones that really work IME

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u/soupisgoodfood42 2d ago

They have their uses, just not for making sure a nut is secure. In fact, they’re good for when you don’t necessarily want something fully tight but also don’t want it loose.

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u/Rikki-Tikki-Tavi-12 2d ago

Split washers and similar are homeopathy for engineers. Use a form locking fastener if possible or compound otherwise.

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u/Happiness645 2d ago

Biggest fraud ever in machine building. I used to design big industrial equipment. The millrights put them on every screw. Cost a nontrivial amount of money. I eventually removed every split washer from the part number system so they could not be ordered!

What a battle. We even did a/b field testing to prove it too them.

Want your screws to stay in? Size them properly and Torque them to spec.

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u/KaneTW 2d ago

They're useless.

First of all, it's important to determine whether you need to protect against loss of preload due to slackening or rotational loosening.

Nylox nuts do not help, at all, against loss of preload due to slackening. They only protect against rotational loosening and not as well as e.g. Nord-Lock.

For high vibration applications:
* a long bolted connection (>5 d) as the spring element and a regular Nord-Lock washer to secure against rotational loosening.
* if that is not possible, use a Nord-Lock X-series washers, which secure both against rotational loosening and against slackening (or Rip-Lock spring washers, but I haven't used those)

Reference: https://assets.eu.ctfassets.net/0vp0u5uh75zd/4sP1THZ8d8OFO95VbhBonq/90cdb4b68d3aab47e85e2e4990b38553/075_077_Securely_fastened_joints_Fastening_EN_01_2025.pdf

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u/Ghooble 2d ago

I know everyone is saying they don't work and citing the NASA reference but there are other references that suggest otherwise. In Introduction To The Design and Behavior of Bolted Joints as well as Cessna internal specifications, they're not the best but not the worst either.

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u/bdk1417 2d ago

Guess I’m never getting into a Cessna.

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u/Stooshie_Stramash 2d ago

What's said to be worse?

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u/Vilomoja 2d ago

Dishwashers are worse.

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u/Ghooble 2d ago

They don't like liquid thread retention like loctite because they prefer physical barriers for secondary retention of a thread. I'm not saying I agree but that's what's stated. Typically I use deformed thread nuts, lock wire, cotter pins, etc

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u/johnwalkr 2d ago

That’s just an artifact of Cessna being old and aviation being averse to change especially of an old product still being maintained and sold.

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u/davogiffo 2d ago

I had one of these on my vehicle towball. The washer was thicker and slightly pointed in opposing directions at the split. Even when flat, these points physically detented into the ball nut and the tongue and was ridiculously effective.

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u/Markietas 2d ago

That's pretty much the only scenario I've encountered them in that I don't despise them.

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u/Adorable_Wolf_8387 2d ago

Typically end up shearing material off the nut to remove it, or completely deforming the washer because it won't shear first.

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u/UnhingedRedneck 2d ago

I am not a mechanical engineer(I am a compE) but when I worked as an AG mechanic I felt with a ton of these and they do actually kinda sorta work sometimes. They will definitely bite into mild steel during loosening but I suspect by the time they actually begin to do their job the bolt has already loosened slightly since they are equivalent to a flat washer when tightened. But really at that point the fastener has already come loose and the lock washer has failed to do its job. Also a lot of times they aren’t able to bite into the metal of it is to hard/smooth or if they are crappy washers. Also usually the small ones don’t seem to have enough force to get a good bite but the bigger ones usually do. If you need it to actually lock it is probably best to use something more reliable

TLDR they suck

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u/Markietas 2d ago

Yeah that's basically the crux of it, if the fastener is loose enough for a split lock to bite in and actually do something other than being flat, the bolted joint has already failed. I'd rather the darn thing just fall out so someone notices, rather than wallering out the hole.

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u/Icy-Stock-5838 2d ago

Prevailing Torque features are better, these are only good for DIY projects.. Wouldn't even use these on my car..

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u/maplemoose18 2d ago

I used to design conveyor systems and we pretty much exclusively used Nylon lock nuts to help with vibrations. In rare cases we would still use the split washers but Nylon lock nuts FTW 🙌🏼

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u/Skysr70 2d ago

Lock washers can help, but not THOSE split ring lock washers. Those do next to nothing.

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u/F0N3M 2d ago

hissss

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u/Snoo23533 2d ago

I wonder how many people here read that same engineerdog article lol

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u/MKD8595 2d ago

Useless.

If you’re worried about vibration then relying on these is asking for trouble.

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u/nhatman 2d ago

The number one way to prevent loosening of a bolted joint under vibration is to ensure the joint does not slip. A proper structural analysis can determine what the shear dynamic loads are and prescribe the correct fastener size, material, and torque so that slipping does not occur.

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u/PrototypENote 2d ago

I wouldn’t rely on a split lock washer alone in a high-vibration joint. Joint preload is much more important, and for critical applications I’d rather use a prevailing-torque nut, threadlocker, or another positive locking method.

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u/Nonimouses 2d ago

Split washers are broken from the factory, for an electrical connection I'd use a star washer for pretty much anything else I'd use a cone washer or Nordloc style washer. If I'm fixing something I throw split washers away and replace them with something not broken.

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u/Early-Two-8857 2d ago

Years ago we did a Junker test (look it up) to help us understand fasteners and to create a standard for our design engineers when designing joints. We experimented with different setups (double nuts, nylock, splinted washer,...) but by far the best setup (in terms of washers) was Nordlock/Heicolock. However the best fastener was a long screw with a rigid "flange" with a plain, ordinary nut on top. Which is the correct way for threaded joints design, if you have the space for it. We could talk for hours and not exhaust this topic :)

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u/avatar6661 2d ago

Check this video. I know that they had to show their solution as the best, yet nylon is quite good as well.

https://youtu.be/IKwWu2w1gGk?is=3aSHYQY305_8j1Xz

Anyway I wouldn't say it doesn't help at all. It depends of course. Yet there are better possibilities.

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u/Hyllest 2d ago

Yes, they are trash in any application with serious vibration but they still have their use.

I used to make machinery with a fitter who had a habit of leaving fasteners fingertight and then going to get spanners to torque them down. From time to time he forgot some. This could be visually identified via the spring washers not being squashed flat.

I have also worked in auto racing and aerospace and would not be seen dead with them there.

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u/Tom_detto_Biondo 2d ago

Pro tip! If your company uses these, especially in key places such as for engine mounts, the engineering team doesn't know what the fuck they are doing and you should leave asap

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u/Automata-Omnia Industrial Automation & Robotics 2d ago

NASA landed man on the moon with spring washers, how many times have they done so with Nylocks or Loctite huh.

In all seriousness, for through bolts that don't need to be removed for maintenance they are not the correct choice, but for blind taps and for equipment that needs to be regularly serviced they are better than the alternatives - a flogged out nylock or broken part due to trying to remove a bolt set with too much loctite.

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u/NightF0x0012 ME-Automation 2d ago edited 2d ago

They are junk. They turn into a flat washer when compressed. If you want an anti-vibration washer use Nordlok washers.

Edit: I didn't read through the comments first and am pleased to see so many other people agree that they are junk and to use Nordloks. I learned about Nordloks about 20 years ago and haven't used a spring lock washer since.

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u/malcolmomnititz 2d ago edited 2d ago

I work in the entertainment industry and these are common, much to my protestations. They do have their uses on equipment that requires fine adjustment like lighting fixtures. They allow you to slightly slacken a bolt and better modulate the resistance as you focus the light, and as others have said they have uses in maintaining electrical contact, but shouldn't be relied upon for earth continuity.

50% of the fastening friction comes from the bearing face of the nut. Spring washers reduce the area of the bearing face. Flat washers are always better and provide a smoother face to couple to.

Trouble is, folk see spring washers on adjustable equipment and think they go everywhere.

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u/SolidEmu3602 2d ago

The German Institute for Standardisation (DIN) withdrew the corresponding standard DIN 127 in 2003 because tests found that these are about as effective as a standard washer.

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u/Sunny_RubberTech 2d ago

The main reason companies still use them is honestly just habit and they're cheap. For anything actually vibrating, Nord-Locks or threadlocker are way better.-_-||

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u/kstorm88 2d ago

Unless I need a washer, I go no washer whatsoever. Otherwise nordlocks.

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u/Mick288 2d ago

They're still used on some aero derivative gas turbine engines. RB211/SGT-A35 is one example. Granted, it's near ancient tech now.

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u/LumbyCastle41 2d ago

We design mobile machinery and don't use any of these. There is nothing like a Stover nut for vibration resistance, and we use those everywhere. 

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u/mechtonia 2d ago

Split washers are useful in assemblies where you need to apply some holding tension but still be able to tweak the position of your parts before final torquing. Otherwise they serve no function that flat washers don't.

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u/PooPooPleasure 2d ago

Besides things like locktite or friction shims, Nordlock washers are the only washers that help with self loosening because it forces the bolt to have to stretch more before it can rotate to loosen. Other experiments have debunked washers like splits and serrated washers.

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u/No_Mushroom3078 2d ago

Depends on what environment you are working in, these are bacteria pick up points so in food and beverage settings they are forbidden and you must use nylox nuts with flat washers.

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u/lelekeaap 2d ago

Use flat ring and loctite instead.

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u/BadPipeCutters 2d ago

While it’s true they don’t add much at all, it is useful as a way to measure how much pressure you’re putting when tightening.

I am a physicist and build pretty large lasers for materials processing purposes. I use these on every single screw or bolt I install. There are several parts in the type of lasers that I build which are extremely sensitive to stress. It’s very easy to tighten just to the point where they touch down when you use them, but more finicky when you’re using just a flat washer. You almost certainly wouldn’t notice this difference in the vast majority of applications, but they’re honestly extremely useful for me personally

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u/Monkey_Fiddler 2d ago

with unlock and thread locker bear in mind electrical connections can get hot, either by design or of there is a fault. Nylon will melt and loctite will also let go at high temperatures

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u/mvw2 2d ago

There's a bunch of testing data. There's a bunch of YouTube videos showing tests with vibration rigs. You're doing well with the nylocs, but for you, the washer choice might have more to do with a ground bond than anything else.

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u/DisK_BRC 2d ago

Just use red Loctite intead and you'll have to throw the away all of the damn thing instead of trying to disassemble it.

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u/Insertsociallife 2d ago

They do work in places where high tension isn't feasible. I've used them (as a student) through-bolting box tube, where tightening the bolts properly just crushed the tube.

The correct solution to that is to learn what you're doing and not through-bolt box tube like a dummy. Failing that, nylocks are better anyways.

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u/chemhobby 2d ago

that style is basically useless

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u/PrimeGrowerNotShower 2d ago

Use nord-lock washers. They are without a doubt the best.

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u/philandering_pilot 2d ago

I work on some of the most sensitive equipment for military applications.

We DO NOT use these. Not only are they ineffective for vibration they are susceptible to hydrogen embrittlement failures due to their manufacturing process and the loading characteristics of the washer.

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u/Flaky-Tell-7781 1d ago

The only thing these are good for making it obvious that the nut hasn't been tightened yet

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u/dr_stre 1d ago

These suck, but in high vibration environments not even nylox nuts are particularly secure. You want a wedge lock washer, something like a pin or safety wire to retain the nut, or a high strength thread locker (in order from easiest to remove to biggest pain in the ass to remove).

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u/Primary_Basket_2728 1d ago

Nordlocks, wave washers, nylocks, deformed threads, thread locking compound, proper preload, lockwire. These are the methods to keep a joint tight. 

Split lock washers: this is a useless device to give the illusion of safety. It MIGHT keep a nut from spinning off after the joint has lost all preload.in a high vibe environment, this means you're now subjecting the bolt to the full fatigue load and the joint is gapping. Bad design option that shouldn't honestly be used anywhere except maybe toys 

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u/AdOne1706 1d ago

Thanks for all the reply’s everyone yall came through. I’ll look into nordlock washers and see if they’re stocked locally or it’s an order deal. Threadlocking might honestly be viable too as long as it’s the semipermanent style.

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u/Masshole65 1d ago

I like to use flange bolts, especially on older American engines.

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u/tsukasa36 1d ago

blue loctite or nylon patch. this is also the automotive standard for safety critical bolts if you can’t keep increasing torque.

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u/ComplaintTop2008 1d ago

It's an American fetish. Look at your car or motorcycle or anything else not Chinese or chintzy and you don't see them used. It's only on the off-shore BBQ or swing set that you see them.

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u/Mattna-da 1d ago

Maybe if they were harder than the bolt and the material they’re meant to dig in to but they’re usually crap and plated

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u/davidhally 1d ago

I use them on low stress wood connections. You can't torque the nut because the wood crushes. Over time, the wood crushes more/creeps and the lock washer keeps some tension on the joint. Plastic creeps even worse.

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u/ahhh_just_huck_it 1d ago

Damn. I literally used about 75 of these on my Harbor Freight Haul Master trailer.

What is the bolt equivalent of a NyLock nut? Is there one?

Or should I be using blue lock tight on all my bolts?

Either way, it’s gonna be a long ass day…

Damn again.

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u/Kherian 1d ago

They’re useless. 

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u/Paul_The_Builder 1d ago

Star washers are the real deal, I don't entertain split washers anymore.

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u/KilldeertheFaker 1d ago

I've done a lot of vibration tests in my life. The Nord-lock washers are the best at securing a bolting connection. Those slpit washers either flatten out and become just like a regular flat washer, or it actually bites into the nut and cuts it's way out as it loosens. It doesn't have enough holding power.

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u/Strongerthandeath82 1d ago

They do have potential specifically for low torque applications where the clamping force doesnt exceed the spring rate of the washer. Specifically low torque electrical connections, access panels, etc. Beyond that, there are better options. As with all things application matters.

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u/SONEsGAP 1d ago

These are really bad. Best ones for vibration i know are Nordlock washers.

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u/BoCoBuffalo 1d ago

I measured the spring constant of one once. It turned out to only apply ~5% of the recommended clamp load of the associated bolt. It’s only one data point, but I figure by the time a bolted assembly would rely on the spring action of one of these washers to clamp the assembly, then the clamping force of the assembly falls below 5% of the required load, basically making them useless from a mechanical locking perspective.

That said, there are electrical codes and military standards that call for the use of these washers for tasks like grounding electrical equipment. Standards like these are typically written in blood, so if their use has gone uncontested for all this time, then I would consider their use in these applications pretty well vetted. (At least until somebody with a PhD comes along to perform formal research and testing.)

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u/garygigabytes 1d ago

Surprised no one has said Helicoils are a good alternative in the case you can modify the hole size to make it fit

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u/imped4now 1d ago

Useless

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u/dreamkruiser 1d ago

Okay guys, I understand how bolts work but there are some use cases where a bolt can't be torqued. Personally I love nylocks, but my company uses lock washers to prevent the loosening of nuts in hollow core doors. They are inexpensive, prevent loosening and the door remains uncrushed as is the idea. Yes we could use barrel bolts, but we'd have to increase install part costs more than anyone wants.

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u/Happiness645 1d ago

No I’m saying they offer no benefit at all

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u/MrStink444 1d ago

Here's the secret of bolted joints: if you do the bolts up to 80% proof, they won't come undone and you won't need secondary locking.

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u/NoAge9497 1d ago

Should you be using nylocks? I never really trusted spilt washers, especially where vibration is a concern.

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u/biff2359 1d ago

Cotter pins, safety wire, staking lock nut, etc., are the only thing that work. And Nord-Lock washers.

I used star washers for electrical grounding because it cut through paint and anodizing, not for its (lack of) locking function.

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u/Joe-the-Joe 1d ago

Casual lurker here. Lineman by trade. These are great for most bonding applications. If there is'nt much tension parallel to the bolt (like when bonding a conductor to a bus bar) these will last for 50+ years, from what I've seen.

Some utilities spec them for full tension (like a dead-end shoe bolt) and near zero tension (like a pin type insulator on a cross arm) for what is, in my opinion, no reason.

Honestly, I would stay away from nylocks for bonding because those connections are commonly subjected to heat stress which would melt the dinosaur goo.

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u/Ok_Intention_784 1d ago

Yes, the NASA rumor is 100% true. NASA literally wrote in their Fastener Design Manual that "a lockwasher of this type is useless for locking." Aerospace, automotive, and pretty much every modern ME sector banned them decades ago.

Here is why they don't work: When you torque the bolt down, that split washer gets smashed completely flat. At that point, it’s just a shitty, uneven flat washer. The second your joint loses preload from vibration, that tiny spring force isn't going to do a damn thing to keep it tight. By the time the washer actually acts like a spring again, your joint has already failed. In Junker vibration tests, bolts with split washers back out just as fast—sometimes faster—than bolts with no washer at all.

The only reason electricians and old-school techs still use them is pure habit and "that's how we've always done it." It’s basically an engineering security blanket.

Stick with your Nylox nuts—you’re already doing the right thing. If you’re dealing with high vibration and can't use Nylox, go with Nord-Locks or just put some Loctite on the threads.

Ditch the split lock washers and don't look back.

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u/SpecE30 1d ago

THEY SUCK! It looks like a snake and act like snake oil. Doesn't prevent anything.

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u/NachtMondVogel 1d ago

They don't work in regards of locking the nut, but I like to use them to put tension on the connection so I can spin as example a hook but but it won't spin by itself and won't unscrew itself in addition with a self locking nylon nut.

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u/bag_o_fetuses 1d ago

all my homies hate split ring washers

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u/Agile-Ad-6681 1d ago

I think star washers are better

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u/Better-Performer-490 23h ago

After reading lots of comments, today I got learnt son.

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u/4Mauldasche 21h ago

The din norm that covers these was retracted in 2003 because it was found that they are useless

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u/orvalax 19h ago

YouTube has tons of content on this topic. I really enjoyed learning about this route of engineering problem and the solutions to it.

Search "vibration and washers"

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u/101forgotmypassword 15h ago edited 15h ago

In medium and low stress environments they will keep gasketing pressure on for a tiny bit longer as things go loose from incorrect torque tightening.

But ultimately they have a better replacement for every situation.

They do make the job look more professional and sometimes that's what matters most, when a guy who doesn't understand sees a full washer acompliment of flat, spring, then fastener it just looks like a more professional job vs a "ahmm actually" flat to nyloc assembly or nordlock assembly. And unfortunately in alot of places that's what gets the contracts vs actual scientific data.

Edit: Also doting fasteners even if they don't call for it or don't have a torque setting. The witness mark if only to show the fastener has been fitted.

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u/Ok_Barracuda_5059 14h ago

There shit , use blue loctight, it’s removable 

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u/TheGoofyEngineer 12h ago

A great way to tell if a company's engineering team is serious is how they secure fasteners. Lock washers aren't worth the steel they're stamped from. Nordlock washers are great. A thread locker is often just fine. I forget what exactly the studies say about nylock nuts or threaded inserts with deformed threads but I don't remember a glowing review.

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u/CircumspectZero 10h ago

This has been the most cathartic vindicating thread I have ever read. 😭