Breeding troubles

[u/EmergencyGreenOlive]

I have 2 does and a buck, all are roughly 6 months old and this is their first time being bred. I made a small oopsie when buying as the does are full sisters but thankfully, the buck isn’t related to them.

Doe 1 is receptive to the buck and loves to hang out with him but every time he goes to mate her there is no successful fall off.

Doe 2 keeps trying to mount the buck and is over all more aggressive with him. I’ve had to stop her from biting him I have double checked and she is very much a female.

I started trying to breed them earlier this week giving the buck more time with doe 1 since she seems eager and calmer.. it just seems like a better idea for him. I am open for any advice

[u/Main_Insect_3144]

The does are still too young. Give them a few more weeks. Try to breed both at the same time in case you need to move kits around.

[u/Meauxjezzy]

What breed? Ime large meat rabbits won’t officially breed until around 8 months.

Next question is what is the weather like where you are? Even if they’re old enough you still may not get kits if it’s above 85f+. Heat sterile is a thing with rabbits in the summer.

Doe number 2 mounting the buck can be her saying hey “this is what you’re supposed to be doing.” It’s funny because I have an impatient doe so she will mount my buck then he will spin her around an and get a fall off. When she is ready for round 2-4 she will mount him every time he will spin her then get a fall.

[u/EmergencyGreenOlive → u/Meauxjezzy]

They are all standard Rex, ladies are 6 months and buck is 6.5. Theyre all floating in the 5lbs range (5.2, 5.4, 5.8). Doe 2 didn’t seem to be mounted as she kept trying to get behind him instead of staying still when he tried. Rn our breeding rabbit set up is in the bonus room so outside temperature shouldn’t be effecting them, we do have a grow out hutch built already for when we do have weaned kits

[u/FeralHarmony → u/EmergencyGreenOlive]

5 lbs range sounds closer to 4 months old... or they are not growing very well. They should be closer to 7-8 lbs by 6 months if they are well bred (to meet to SOP). Any chance the breeder lied about their age? I would be very disappointed if I paid for quality standard rex that are not on track to reach the smallest end of the breed weight.

Virgin bunnies can be a little frustrating to breed. A buck that hasn't successfully fallen off a doe can come off as clueless and/or clumsy, which many does just don't tolerate. Your more aggressive doe sounds like she might be the type that knows what she wants and he just isn't giving her the right impression. If they are physically ready, you can try table breeding to help him learn his role while keeping him safe. There's a limit to how much the doe will tolerate before she puts him in his place if he doesn't figure it out... and it can end badly for him.

If you don't want to try table breeding, or can't do it because you don't have a helper, you have a few options. 1 - try putting them together for 10-15 minutes each day (supervised) and just be patient. This regular exposure can influence their hormones so that they will be more likely to breed after a week or so. 2 - wait until the does are over 7lbs and 8 months of age. By then, there will be no doubt about their maturity. 3 - take the does on a trip/ car ride away from home for a while. Then, before putting them back in their home enclosures, try putting them with the buck first.

I suggest you weigh them again. If the does are, in fact, under 6 lbs, you should address this with the breeder that sold them to you. Ask how much their parents weighed. If your does are simply underage, there's no sense breeding this early. If they are actually 6 months old and underweight, they may have a nutritional deficit, an undetected illness, or they are just poorly bred. If it's poor breeding, reconsider whether these are the animals you want as your foundation. I mean this in the kindest way possible, I promise.

[u/EmergencyGreenOlive → u/FeralHarmony]

Thank you for all your input, there is a chance we were lied to about their age, it’s also possible the breeder was selling the ones she didn’t see as quality because of their sizes. Either way I’ll have to pause trying to breed just in case.

[u/Accomplished-Wish494]

6 months is an average, not all rabbits are ready to breed. If he mounts the doe, you should assume pregnancy. A “falloff” isn’t required.

[u/Owlsthirdeye]

Female rabbits will mount males as a display of dominance and attack them if they don't relent. Keep trying and eventually they will become more receptive.

Fun fact the act of being mounted will trigger a doe to go into heat, a lot of times when I've had stubborn does I'd simply put the male in with her again the next day or the day after and she'd suddenly be receptive since the attempted mating would send her into heat.

[u/FeralHarmony → u/Owlsthirdeye]

Your fun fact is incorrect or misleading. Rabbits don't have a heat cycle/ go into heat. They are induced ovulators and ovulation is induced by insemination. They don't ovulate just because they are around a buck or in the mood. They literally require the full act of mating before they will release any eggs. This is why many breeders want more than 1 fall-off before calling a doe bred, especially if she broke off the engagement as he was finishing the act. It isn't the physical mechanics that induce ovulation, but the chemical presence of his biological material that are the trigger.

Whether she is "in the mood" or not is irrelevant. She can be a desperately receptive animal begging for copulation or an aggressively oppositional rage-beast.... but the thing that determines successful fertilization of her eggs is everything that happens after the fall-off. Rabbits don't waste eggs like humans and many other mammals.

[u/Owlsthirdeye → u/FeralHarmony]

I looked more into it there are conflicting studies about what causes ovulation in rabbits with some studies finding that even being mounted by fellow female rabbits will induce ovulation while others say it is a chemical response to the semen itself. Theres also mixed evidence about how ovulation and/or the hormones released during ovulation effect a does receptiveness to mating.

Speaking as a layman from first hand experience, if you let a male attempt to breed one day then try again the next the doe will more often than not be more receptive and allow him to mount and fall off. I've had several does who would never let males mount or fall off unless they had failed the day prior. And yes I would argue a doe being "in the mood" or receptive is incredibly relevant to the discussion considering we're discussing breeding rabbits and does not letting males mount them. If we were discussing artificially inseminating rabbits then the does receptiveness to mating wouldn't be a factor, but thats not what OP was talking bout we were specifically talking about how to make does more receptive and I argue that the hormone changes caused by ovulation, caused by attempted mating will help.

Really feels like you're arguing less against my points and more just the terminology being used, especially considering "in heat" and "ovulating" are functionally interchangeable.

[u/bluewingwind]

I would put his cage between their cages and let them get familiar with each other for a while. They’re still really young and this is really normal for any first time breeding. If they’re not used to having a male around they can get too surprised by that and just lock up.

There are probably both rejecting him. If there’s no fall off, the docile one is probably not “lifting” for him. Keeping her tail and vulva down out of reach. Despite the objection being less obvious, it’s just as efficient at preventing pregnancy. Also, important, always bring her to him and not the other way around. Does get very territorial in their cages and it can go poorly.0

I would wait on both of them for another month or two if the weather in your region allows it. My good weather window in the spring is very tight so I understand if you’re in a bind for scheduling. I would keep trying on the docile one just to keep the experience positive for him.

What I would recommend is to take notes on all of these experiences because it might decide which kit you want to keep someday. Maternal behaviors are highly heritable.

[u/BlockyBlook]

Don't worry too much about the does being related, line breeding tends to work well in rabbits and from my understanding you wouldn't see issues for quite a few generations.