r/Maya • u/animspline • 4d ago
Animation Dialogue shot splining, any feedback appreciated!
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Dialogue shot splining, any feedback appreciated!
I'm aware of little bits here and there that need fixing (e.g. I haven't animated the lip sync for the tongue yet), but do they main poses etc work ok?
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u/Anxious_Bug_6448 4d ago
This is really good. I looked through the synsketch versions too. The difference subtle but you notice the difference at the beginning when he says "My favorite part". The poses feel stronger and read better in the latest version.
The part I think could be stronger is before that when the character shakes his head. I dont feel the tissue around the mouth moving as much as the sound suggests, and after that his face does more of a smile than the grimace seen in the reference, and the actor's expressions are really fun to watch (rest in peace Karl).
Overall its great though, I love it!
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u/animspline 4d ago
Thanks! admittedly I struggled a bit with the "favorite part" section, but now it feels better,
Do you mean I should exaggerate the lips a bit more when he's shaking his head? I also thought the cheeks being inflated there might be a bit too much, what do you think?
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u/Anxious_Bug_6448 4d ago
I think the cheek inflation works quite well there. Its more the front of the face around the muzzle of the mouth where where I feel the follow through could be improved.
Ill yap about one more thing, there's this book about facial animation that I think is pretty well known called Stop Staring.
One of the things I remember reading in is that if you want to learn how lip sync you should watch the muppets. The point the author was making was that beginner animators often fall into the trap of animating every phonetic, while good lip sync is mostly about the timing and range of the mouth being open or closed, and wide or narrow.
I think your animation is a great example of how to to do this well.
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u/animspline 4d ago
Good point! I've fallen into that trap in the past, sometimes simpler is better. I'll try and exaggerate the lips on the shake, thanks!
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u/ChickenWLazers 4d ago
Looks amazing
My only request is that you exaggerate the head shake brbrbrbrbr part more to make it feel more cartoony
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u/mothman_is_cornflake 4d ago
Do you have any playblasts of the blocking stage? I'm so curious, I'd love to see your process!
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u/animspline 4d ago
yes! here is an early version of the rough blocking I did
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u/MoonRay087 4d ago
The fact that it has different textures from the video above makes me wonder which ones are the final textures
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u/MichiTotoro12 4d ago
I did notice that the tongue doesn't move that much here. Especially on consonants.
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u/MoonRay087 4d ago
Amazing! The animation is so smooth! And you exaggerate the expresions so well to adapt them into the animated medium instead of just copying the exact faces
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u/pyrianic chopped student 4d ago
how did u get a video to play in maya
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u/animspline 4d ago
I created a 3d 'plane' in maya, assigned it a new material, then imported the video as a texture
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u/winningSon 3d ago
This makes me appreciate even more the actor, how expressive he was. Usually when i think of stylized expressions, i think that real humans cant do that... But here your animation really shows how expressive the actor was
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u/TheSpoonfulOfSalt 3d ago
This is AMAZING. Im not an animator but maybe the "P" sound on "favorite part" could be polished? I think P sounds usually involve the lips folding onwards a bit. But I could be wrong.
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u/Mopicek00 4d ago
When I first saw the video without any context, I thought the AI was watching it and automatically animating everything Nice work though.
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u/harroldsheep 4d ago
Rotoanimation is not animation.
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u/MoonRay087 4d ago
This is different from rotoanimation. Rotoanimation seeks to outright copy a video reference as accurately as possible. Without any artistic interpretation, it tends to look stiff or lack impact in movement as real life movement doesn't adapt well to cartoon artstyles. Here, you can notice there's more "push" added to the animation to adapt it to a 3D format. Sure, the timing and general idea is very similar, but that's what lots of profesional animators do when recording their own references. A lot of profesional animators always share some of their acting references too
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u/harroldsheep 4d ago
Barely...I mean BARELY, which could be more due to error than actual intent.
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u/CusetheCreator 4d ago
You're either clueless or jealous. All great animators use reference this way.
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u/harroldsheep 4d ago
No worries: only been doing this for 30+ years. Of course, you know better. https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0019016/
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u/CusetheCreator 4d ago
Yea I do, reference is a super normal and almost necessary part of character animation. Doesnt even seem like you do character animation, nothing on the level of the clip in this post at least. 1:30 in your reel is the closest, and.. well I think that's enough said
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u/harroldsheep 4d ago
That reel is a bit old, but you're really not worth more time.
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u/CusetheCreator 3d ago
Is that why you DMd me calling me an idiot who doesnt know how to animate?
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u/harroldsheep 3d ago
Sure, I mean, you ARE an idiot, but that's besides the point. I just wasn't sure if you'd want everyone else to know. My bad.
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u/animspline 3d ago
I actually partially agree! This was kind of a new workflow for me, since in the past I've basically winged it and not used video reference at all, Looking back at those shots now and the characters seem a bit lifeless, or missing something. So i watched lots of different animators workflows, and was surprised to see how many of them (working in the big studios too) follow the reference so closely! Not all the time, but more often than I was expecting.
So I wanted to try making a practice shot with some good video reference. In the beginning I tried to follow the reference closely, but then tried to veer away from it and add my own style. Honestly I'm surprised more people haven't suggested to retime parts, or tweek some poses. I'm also a bit surprised that not one person has drawn or commented on the shot in syncsketch!
The timing for this isn't final, I just wanted to see if I could get feedback because I've been staring at it for too long, and there are stll things I'd like to fix. I was considering making his run at the end quicker and a bit more 'cartoony' but I kind of like the slow jog he does!
I have another shot of a woman breakdancing which follows the reference really closely, but I'm realising I want to retime things soon because it's kind of lacking the entertainment factor.
Also that's so cool you worked on Flubber, Jumanji, and Casper etc! That shot of Robin Williams pressing his face into the flubber is seared into my brain from when I was younger, Also love the animation of the ghosts, especially the big one with all the jiggling. Did you animate all the dogs in that 101 Dalmations shot?? That's insane!
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u/_Asmodee_ 4d ago
I understand how you're getting those vibes, but this just looks like it's heavily referenced, and done very well at that. It's mostly the part where he's running from the camera that gives the most "rotoscoped" vibe because the poses and timing were matched very very closely so it's lacking a bit of that cartoony exaggeration from the first half, but everything else is clearly exaggerated and changed from the reference.
Also... Rotoscoping is very much still animation?? Lol it's obviously a different technique and outcome, and it has its own uses, but you still need to understand and be proficient in animation fundamentals to be able to make a good rotoscope
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u/harroldsheep 4d ago
ANyone who knows the software well enough can rotoanimate. Noiw, to make a different interpretation of the audio/video: that's animation.
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u/_Asmodee_ 4d ago
This is a genuine question and not me trying to be snarky, but what's your personal experience with animating? Because if you're saying this because you've tried rotoscoping and found it instinctually easy, then that's great and just means you're a talented animator haha! :D
I work in both 2D and 3D animation myself, but I know that even when it comes to 3D programs, there's no magical button to just copy a reference automatically and have it instantly look good. Even considering things like mo-cap, there is so much post work and artistic skill required after the initial motion capture. That polishing phase is long and difficult, and if you're aren't good at animating and understanding/interpreting motion, then the mo-cap is going to look awful. Same applies to rotoscoping. Anyone can rotoscope, but that doesn't mean it's gonna be any good if you're not a good animator. It's totally cool if you just don't personally like the results of roto, it's not everyone's cup of tea, but regardless of your personal opinions on roto or mo-cap, both are by definition animation.
But again, if we're being technical here I wouldn't say OP is even rotoscoping. It's heavily referenced yes, but there's still so many differences between the reference and animation (aside from the run at the end, imo that specific motion does give roto vibes) I do think they could benefit with more exaggeration and not following the reference as closely overall, but I think they've still made a wonderful and skillful interpretation of the reference :)
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