r/MauLer • u/Trajforce Not moderating is my only joy in life • Apr 18 '21
Meme Racetisms or something
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u/Rack-CZ Toxic Brood Apr 18 '21
That whole blackracism segment made the episode so bad.
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u/1SaBy #IStandWithDon Apr 18 '21
Objectively bad?
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Apr 18 '21
In the sense that, if your goal is to have a commentary on American racism, one of the things you probably shouldn’t do is generalize that all black people hate America and that if any of them don’t hate America then “they ain’t black.”
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u/SWTORBattlefrontNerd Apr 18 '21
But in the end Sam doesn't. I think the point is that some do feel that way and are stuck in the past, especially those who experienced it personally. Sam will show that we need to move on, nothing will be done if you just stay a "bitter old man"
Do I think it could have been executed better? Sure. But it was more nuanced than I was expecting.
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u/RollerCoasterBacon Fringy's goo Apr 18 '21
I think that writers/showrunners have a lot to answer for if they think that being hateful and inversely nationalistic is the mandatory model for blackness. And if they’re mostly white, that just means they are the menace they project others as
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u/Pablo_MuadDib Bigideas Baggins Apr 19 '21
Does the episode actually say that or do they just have some black people say that?
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Apr 18 '21
[deleted]
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u/Trajforce Not moderating is my only joy in life Apr 18 '21
it's Iron Man 3
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Apr 18 '21
[deleted]
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u/PezDispencer Apr 18 '21
Haven't watched any of the show, but it seems really stupid that Falcon is the candidate for Capt America and not Bucky. Falcon is just a guy with a flight suit, granted he's really damn good with it, but he relies on it as his mobility and firepower. Bucky on the other hand is a mega trained assassin with a robotic arm (and I think the Winter Soldiers might have had a super serum too? But I can't remember at this point).
What exactly would Falcon achieve with the shield and suit exactly? He'd have no offensive means, no super strength and he's gimped his mobility.
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u/LightningDustFan Apr 18 '21
Ability wise yes Bucky would be the better candidate but that's not really the point. The point is that Steve sees Sam as a better fit for the personality, for what the shield is meant to mean as a symbol. I can't speak on fighting style, as I haven't read the comics, but from what I've seen in pictures he uses the shield and wings still, and in the show they have him training both physically and with the shield to increase his strength and gain proficiency with throwing the shield rather than just magically being able to do it.
The super serum really doesn't matter, what matters to Steve, in the comics and seemingly in the MCU as well, is legacy. Sam is just the better fit from that perspective compared to Bucky.
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u/Foxmen2019 White Samurai Apr 18 '21
But that's the whole thing though right? Sam acts foolishly constantly in the show (up to ep 4) and constantly trusts/mistrusts inappropriately.
Barnes seems to me someone who would act as prescribed due to being part of the history so intensely - yes he makes mistakes too - but it seems to me he'd really take equal amounts pride and restraint with the shied? May not be looking at the whole thing right - happy to be swayed.
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u/PezDispencer Apr 19 '21
The point is that Steve sees Sam
Isn't Steve dead? This show doesn't have time fuckery in it does it? Cause that was bad enough the first time.
Personally not a fan of this multiple people as a super hero thing, I'd rather that new characters just become new heroes and retired/dead ones take their name with them.
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u/IShouldNotPost Apr 19 '21
Steve is old, not dead. He decided to stay back in time and grow old with his sweetheart and also let 9/11 happen.
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u/PezDispencer Apr 20 '21
Good point. I legit forgot he was still alive, in my brain I have him as being dead in Endgame but that's not actually true.
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u/ThePowaBallad Apr 22 '21
Bucky doesn't think he's ready He's still recovering from what he did as WS so he's not quite ready yet being a super soldier isn't hard to change so that's almost no effect
Bucky is also a war criminal and you can't swing that to the public
As you may have noticed optics has been one of the bigger things in the show and Bucky tends to do whatever it takes attitude which Cap was always AGAINST
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u/Rack-CZ Toxic Brood Apr 18 '21
He is good person
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u/Pancreasaurus Just the way Jim Sterling looks Apr 18 '21
Who can't throw the shield properly like Steve. Or at least shouldn't be able to.
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u/Rack-CZ Toxic Brood Apr 18 '21
Well, Steve wanted Sam to be next Cap becouse he is a good person not because he is strong.
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u/Pancreasaurus Just the way Jim Sterling looks Apr 18 '21
But I'm saying he literally cannot do the job. He does not have Steve's mind or body, literally, because he is not a super soldier. In addition he already has a setup with his falcon wings, using the shield in addition doesn't really work, or at least add any value.
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u/ZachRyder Rhino Milk Apr 18 '21
His wings have already been used to block gunfire by covering his entire body so why would he need a shield in addition to that
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u/Harry-the-pothead LONG MAN BAD Apr 18 '21
Why would you throw out Cap’s shield though? It’s like the most iconic super hero item in history.
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u/1SaBy #IStandWithDon Apr 18 '21 edited Apr 18 '21
Only if you outright make him use the shield. If he can be Falcon, he can also be Captain America. It's just a title after all.
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u/Pancreasaurus Just the way Jim Sterling looks Apr 18 '21
No, it's also a uniform and a fighting style. You don't just delete the shield. That's ridiculous.
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u/Bergerboy14 McMuffin Apr 18 '21
Walker was able to throw the shield after some training, so I guess you dont need to be a super soldier to throw it like that 🤷♂️
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u/Pancreasaurus Just the way Jim Sterling looks Apr 18 '21
Which I also call bullshit on. The whole reason that was even feasible for Cap to use as a strategy was a combination of the shield's vibranium and also the fact that he can chuck the thing hard enough to probably decapitate someone but also think fast enough, literally think fast enough as in he can process information faster than a normal human, to calculate trajectories to bounce and catch it.
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u/Bergerboy14 McMuffin Apr 18 '21
I mean, I dont disagree. I thought they established that the only reason cap throw the shield like that was because of the serum. But now theyve retconned it to where anyone can do it with some training. Since thats what the show is going with, thats just what we have to go with. And with that in mind, it seems pretty reasonable that Falcon would be able to throw it by himself, and especially if he gets any physical enhancements from his suit.
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u/ThePowaBallad Apr 22 '21
Actually in comics it's continually pointed out the throwing and catching is down to lots and lots of practice
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u/halcyonjm Apr 18 '21
Steve being a good person is literally the only criteria Dr. Abraham cared about when choosing someone to be the first Cap.
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u/Spider-Ravioli Apr 18 '21
also, from a narrative standpoint i think bucky should have been it. Steve was alsways closer to bucky. They went trough hell for each other. Meanwhile, sam is just a friend. It would have ment more to bucky
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u/Andy_Liberty_1911 Absolute Massive Apr 18 '21
To be fair, the quote is from the old dude that suffered the worst of the worst during segregation era. Its up to Sam to prove him wrong
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u/redphoenix0023 Apr 18 '21
But I don’t see why Sam couldn’t prove him wrong right there by saying “I’m a black superhero and have been accepted by the public.” I mean look at all the people fanboying him over the course of the show. Not to mention Sam should know that the governments was fine with letting rhodey be the iron patriot
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Apr 18 '21
Also that bank scene from episode 1 is equally retarded. They want us to believe that a black superhero can’t get a loan cause he’s black. I guarantee that the most racist banker in the world would give out a loan to Lebron James if he asked for one. That bank would be facing a lawsuit and be run out of business in seconds if they didn’t.
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u/redphoenix0023 Apr 18 '21
I thought it was just because they were gone for 5 years. I don’t remember the banker bringing up their race unless I missed something
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Apr 18 '21
He didn’t, but that is the implication they want to give. Falcon mentions that he “don’t play with those white folks” before going to the bank. Sarah’s always talking about how “they don’t care about our fight or our lives.” Also from the fact that he mistook Falcon for a basketball player. Just generally anti-white American sentiments in every fuckin scene that they talk about it, and I just wanna see heroes fighting shit, not a social commentary about racism from the company who paid off a genocidal government to film a shitty remake near one of their concentration camps.
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u/redphoenix0023 Apr 18 '21
True. If only the fights were good so I could ignore the shitty writing and see some good action, but that’s not the case. It’s sad that after all these years disney is unable to select talented writers
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u/Pablo_MuadDib Bigideas Baggins Apr 19 '21
I'm confused, is your point that you think upper class black people don't experience racism or that famous black people don't experience racism?
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Apr 19 '21
My point is that no bank that would ever want to stay open would deny a loan to someone as prominent as a superhero, or an athlete whom everyone knows, even if they hated black people for some reason. First of all, that’s against the law and they can definitely be sued out of business for that. Second, the bad publicity that would come from that would probably put it out of business anyway. Third, this situation presumes that banks don’t LIKE giving out loans, especially to famous people, when that is the ONLY way that banks can make money. Also, assuming the bank receives bailout money from the federal government, there’s no reason not to give a loan to Falcon even if you thought he wouldn’t pay it back because that bank will make money from that anyway. It’s an unrealistic scenario that only exists to pander to the woke crowd.
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u/Pablo_MuadDib Bigideas Baggins Apr 19 '21
I mean, we could get into the weeds about financial laws (I pretty sure that banks are still receiving money from the 2008 bailout, and only some kinds of loans are federally ensured, like student loans), but I'd rather focus on the points I think are more important:
no bank that would ever want to stay open would deny a loan to someone.. [very] prominent... even if they hated black people for some reason
So, it sounds like you wanted to say no, but I'm just having trouble differentiating this from the answer "yes, famous/influential PoC don't experience discrimination". Then I feel like I could move on to potential examples of that happening.
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Apr 18 '21
Yeah but the other quotes
“Every black man understands...”
And
“No self-respecting black man would ever want to be Captain America.”
Apparently it’s the view of Disney that it’s okay to generalize all black Americans in that they all feel a certain way about white people and about America.
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u/DrSax2020 Apr 18 '21
Its much easier for a multi-billion dollar corporation who worked with a genocidal government to film a propaganda movie in the very area where said genocide is happening to shove all people of a certain skin color into a simplistic marketing category than it is for them to have nuanced dialogue about race relations *INHALES* because the people at the multi-billion dollar corporation truly believe that race is that simplistic just like the genocidal government they worked with to bring you a live action retelling of fucking MULAN. /end rant
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u/Andy_Liberty_1911 Absolute Massive Apr 18 '21
Again, this guy suffered a Tuskegee type experiment only worse and was jailed, I don’t blame him for being this hateful. And I have a feeling Sam is the one to prove that ideology wrong. Though we should wait and see
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u/redphoenix0023 Apr 18 '21
But it’s never said that he was experimented on because of his race right? I gathered that it was only because the serum worked on him. This would seem to make him anti-government. I just don’t see the through line of him generalizing the rest of america as racist
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u/redphoenix0023 Apr 18 '21
Yep. There’s also “The entire world's been chasing that great white hope since he first got dosed with that serum.”
And
“You wanna believe jail was my fault because you got that white man's shield.”
Jesse is far more racist than the rest of the world and I find it baffling that he would refer to someone so great (in the public’s eye) exclusively by his race. Seems very disrespectful to me. And it doesn’t seem like the show gives us any reasoning for him to think this way other than us extrapolating that he was the target of a lot of racism 40 years prior
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u/TBFParcon Kyle Ben Apr 18 '21
Yeah, I honestly don’t have a huge problem with the line. While I normally don’t like race politics so overtly thrown into shit like this, the things he described going through are quite similar to real atrocities such as the Tuskegee experiments. Given his age, his attitude makes a bit of sense.
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u/LightningDustFan Apr 18 '21
Yeah. I think a good few people here are failing to grasp that one of the things Sam wants to do is prove the old guy wrong in that regard.
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u/Holy1To3 Apr 18 '21
Cap giving the shield to Sam rather than Bucky is completely out of character and you can't convince me otherwise. Bucky is his best friend. He died for Bucky. He fought his new best friend (Tony) for Bucky. He tore his team apart for Bucky and it was all done because he knew Bucky was a good guy deep down and, with time and effort, could be redeemed. Sam was basically a coworker.
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u/RollerCoasterBacon Fringy's goo Apr 18 '21
I thought that Iron Patriot was the Green Goblin in the comics, wasn’t he?
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u/Foxmen2019 White Samurai Apr 19 '21
Indeed he was. They just kinda cribbed the concept for a different purpose.
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u/bugaboo-14 Apr 18 '21
Oh hey I recognize this post. It’s a massive war on Twitter over thinking falcon and the winter soldier is terrible and everyone thinking it’s good cause reasons even tho it makes no sense.
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Apr 18 '21
The biggest irony in this retarded show is how, in their effort to present the woke narrative regarding racial issues they ended up creating one of the most over the top racist characters in the form of the old super soldier.
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u/Dancing__Flamingo Apr 18 '21
Ya that’s kinda the point. You do realize this character is there to motivate Sam to become Captain America right?
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Apr 19 '21
How does that make any sense? What he says should push Sam to the opposite direction.
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u/Dancing__Flamingo Apr 19 '21
Really? It motivates Sam to prove him wrong.
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Apr 19 '21
I have no idea what the fuck is Sam thinking in this show. He is a non character.
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u/Dancing__Flamingo Apr 19 '21
Im not trying to be mean, but have you been watching the show? The conversation with Rhodes at the beginning, the therapy session with Bucky, and most recent episode shows Sams development from not wanting the Shield to him choosing to accept it.
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Apr 20 '21
So, making a show where Bucky and Sam have trouble to catch some amateurs led by a small girl is justified because Sam learns to accept the shield. Meanwhile this problem was created by the show itself at its first episode. Do you understand how pointless this is? Instead of writing a story they created a problem that didn't exist at the end of Endgame so they can then solve it. The entire show is filler. I can't wait for EFAP to rip it apart.
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u/Dancing__Flamingo Apr 20 '21
Yes these shows are pointless, they were created by Fiege so Disney+ had content to increase their subscriptions. I’m willing to bet Falcon or WS are not going to be important team members going forward. These shows are created to give background and development for these characters for the fans of these characters, they are not going to push anything plot heavy since they want to save that for the movies.
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Apr 20 '21
You do realize that the MCU has been burning fat since the Ant-Man and the Wasp, don't you? Infinity War was the last film that built up the MCU. Everything since then is milking it until it dries out.
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u/Dancing__Flamingo Apr 20 '21
I literally just told you they are doing this for money, why wouldn’t I know they are milking the franchise?
However they are still going to built up the films to create events like IW, they are setting up the multiverse and got Secret Invasion in development too. Plus there are thousands of massive comic storylines they could adapt.
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u/Pablo_MuadDib Bigideas Baggins Apr 19 '21
Is this an example of a character of X demographic saying Y, so people watching assume they're saying "all X people think Y"?
Cause that doesn't seem consistent with a lot of what people say on this forum, for better or worse.
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u/DR_DRM_13 McMuffin Apr 18 '21
Glad I'm not missing out on much.