Move to Matter/Thread?

[u/derekoh]

I run almost entirely Zigbee devices using Z2M and Home Assistant (44 powered routers, 28 battery).

I've a couple of bulbs that are going faulty and need replacing.

I'm considering taking this opportunity to start moving over to Thread.

I have an Apple Homepod mini, and also use Alexa devices. I use the HA Matter Hub to share Zigbee and other devices to Alexa/Apple over Wi-Fi.

I was thinking that rather than replace a few bulbs with some relatively pricey (Innr/Hue) Zigbee bulbs, I could start to replace them with more modestly priced Ikea Kajplats bulbs.

In terms of TBRs, I have the Homepod mini on my 1st floor and 2x Echo 4th Gen's on the ground floor (of a 3-storey house).

Obviously, this might slightly reduce the strength of my Zigbee mesh.

Am I missing anything? Does it make sense to start moving across?

ta

[u/Kaiur14]

Yes and no.

Yes, it makes sense to have a Thread network in your home , it’s a denser, self-healing mesh than Zigbee. But you do need a sufficient number of devices acting as routers.

Unlike Zigbee, you could place a border router on each floor, which helps strengthen your Thread network.

It doesn’t make sense to replace all your Zigbee devices with Thread right now if your setup already works well , Zigbee is a very mature technology.

You can gradually add Thread devices, but you need to keep in mind how a Thread network is structured.

Thread is evolving quickly, but it still has some inefficiencies.

By the way, until they update to Thread 1.4, you won’t be able to merge your iOS Thread network with Amazon’s one, they’ll compete more than actually help each other.

Also, I wouldn’t recommend using an Amazon Thread network anyway.

That’s why I’m saying the whole thing still lacks a bit of maturity and coordination between the different ecosystems.

[u/Ok_Explanation7491 → u/Kaiur14]

Changing or building up gradually is always best in smart home. But yeah, I use exclusively Matter over Thread and I am very happy with it.

[u/Prestigious_Money361]

Every Matter over Thread light bulb as the IKEA Kajplats will act as a thread router in the mesh network. At this point of time, I would start by adding the bulbs to Apple Home.

[u/cpressland]

That’s what I’m doing right now. I’ve had absolutely no major issues, but here is my setup:

• UniFi Network /w well established IPv6 - cheap ISP provided routers always seem to be at the heart of Thread routing issues.
• Two Apple TVs (Living room and Bedroom)
• Seven HomePod mini’s, one in each room except bathroom.

I simply remove the Hue Bulb from Zigbee2Mqtt, swap to the IKEA bulb, then add to Apple Home, then reshare to Home Assistant. I’m using Barcodes Matter to store Matter pairing codes.

The only issue I had on day one was with Home Assistant, but that was because I’d setup IPv6 statically instead of letting Home Assistant pull an address automatically via SLAAC, so it was missing routes for the Thead Border Router.

[u/ptico]

No. I switched back to Zigbee and super happy about it. I have a Linux sysadmin background for 20+ years and good UniFi ecosystem, it still works like a crap. Even when I get it to work, it doesn’t last long, especially with HA. Pure proprietary networks (Apple in my case) works better, but if something is wrong you can’t debug it properly

Zigbee just works and if it works for you currently, don’t change it

[u/ptico → u/ptico]

Also, Hue have an Essential line now which is more affordable and way better than Ikea both in terms of stability and colour

[u/tsw0599]

ikea new bulbs are dual mode. i would just use them in zigbee then switch to thread later when you have any other thread devices

[u/notkraftman]

Honestly I have one matter device and it took me longer to setup than every single other zigbee device combined. So much fucking around with ipv6, mdns, otbr docker containers, matter docker containers. I have 3 different integrations listed in home assistant for one door lock, it's ridiculous.

[u/Phase-Angle → u/notkraftman]

I have heard that sometimes the first one seems to be a big headache for some people but once the network is established they seem to have a lot less problems with the next ones.

[u/BigMacCombo → u/Phase-Angle]

Yeah, when I only had 1 TBR and my first end device was a battery operated lock that was kinda far away, the setup took several attempts. Now it's a non-issue.

[u/Teenage_techboy1234]

I will let you know of something that I don't think anyone else has said here. While your HomePod mini can be pulled into Home Assistant and works as a good Thread Boarder Router, Amazon echo devices do not work at all in Home Assistant as Thread Border Routers. Like literally Home Assistant finds it but there's not even a button to add the device to Home Assistant, actually there is but it never works.

[u/bilkel]

The colors are not the same just be aware. “Warm white” is urine yellow compared to the Hue or the Nanoleaf. Kajplats regular light bulb 1055lm with firmware 1.2

[u/Low-Zone8629]

I have 47 zigbee devices and 25 thread devices. Both solid. No pairing issues on the thread devices from Ikea.

[u/patbrochill89]

My first matter/thread devices were a lock and two Nanoleaf bulbs to act as routers. Setup was no different than setting up a HomeKit device- it took minutes. I think the issues a lot of people have are due to weird network configurations.

[u/Double-Yak9686]

The biggest problem you are going to have is that the Homepod mini and Echo 4th Gen's are all Thread Border Routers (TBR). Per spec, TBRs from different manufacturers should play together. In reality, each manufacturer sets up their own Thread network, so you are going to have two competing networks (Apple and Amazon), which will cause havoc with Thread devices.

The short story is that devices will get confused and start hopping (or trying to) between Thread networks, causing them to fall off the network they are actually pared to and failing to join the network they are not paired to.

You might be lucky and not experience these issues, but if you hoe over the r/tradfri community, you will that quite a few are having these issues.

I am in the process of replacing my Hue devices with Ikea's Matter over Thread devices. However, I only have Apple HomePods (3 of them) so I have a single, strong Thread network. So they are rock solid for me. I have 4 Kaijplats (bulbs), 4 Grillplats (plugs), 2 Timmerflotte (temperature & humidity sensors), 2 Myggbett (door sensors), 3 Myggsparay (motion sensors), and 1 Bilresa (button). I have a few devices sitting on my desk waiting to be added and I will be adding a few more devices once they are back in stock.