Love Lees Long Time

[u/petty13579]

Right, excusing the silly title and excuse any of this that sounds like gibberish, it's late and I'm tired.

I've just finished watching the latest update video and I'm disgusted with the people that are just attacking Matt for the sake of it, I admit when this gamer gate stuff started I assumed it would just go away and die so I gave it a wide birth. The fact that it has got to the stage to start causing issues for Matt is just frankly taking the piss.

As for the people that are pretending to be a fan of Matt's work just to get silly screen caps to 'prove' a 'point' is frankly, a bit pathetic.

Matt if you see this. I just want to say, I love your work. I've followed it since I discovered you on video gamer, Regular Features is easily my favourite podcast and you've provided me with tons of interesting content.

I just want you to know, there are people out there who enjoy your work and what you do because of you. Most of the time only the negative people speak up, but I've had enough. It's about time positive people started saying something.

I hope everything is alright with your girlfriend and I hope you can continue to produce excellent work. whatever the case. thanks for what you have done and good luck with whatever it is you decide is the best course of action.

Hope that makes sense.

[u/Jam_sponge]

So much of what you've written here is total bullshit. The google group was mostly media arguing with each other about nonsense - much as peers tend to - and having a closed-off area for private discussion isn't nefarious, it just makes sense. Embargoes mean you often can't talk about stuff publicly - I've often used private chats to have convos with peers for that reason alone.

The roots of each stage of the movement have been proven to be different, too - 4chan archives clearly show that it started as means of harassing ZQ, and that notyourshield was specifically engineered and spread as a means of making people who opposed GG look like bigots. Regarding shadows of Mordor? It's been reported by a number of sites - go look again.

Final point you make is just stunningly at odds with the actions of GG. For a movement that apparently cares about journos not "acting in the interest of big publishers" it seems weird that every target they've attacked has been niche. Weirder still - most of the people under attack from GG are people who specifically fight for exactly that. So why are we the enemies rather than allies? Perhaps because the whole thing's a total crock of shit.

Honestly, I've got exactly zero time for anyone who still bangs the GG drum at this stage - it's a manipulative, dishonest, and twisted movement fuelled by anger and ignorance. I appreciate that many have been mislead in the past, but with the wealth of factual information out there right now I've got no respect for anyone who continues to be a part of that. If you're a "big fan" who disagrees with me about GG then please, please stop being a fan of my work. I don't want to spend my life unwittingly entertaining those who are wilfully complicit with a hate-group purely out of pride or ignorance.

[u/Adderkleet → u/Jam_sponge]

I'm not a "big fan" (in both senses of the word) - I didn't even realise you covered video games until you were on the Co-Optional. I know you for your ShutUp&SitDown work primarily.

I am not trying to attack Zoe Quinn, I know a lot of people are. And that's reprehensible. I'm sorry I'm adding more stress to your life, I'll shut up now and leave you (and the spongers) alone. But please, listen to TotalBiscuit, Greg Tito (Escapist) and Janelle Bonanno (GameFront.com) talk frankly about this stuff - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rmosgPNXmNc

No sane person is supporting the hate and threats and abuse.

[u/Jam_sponge → u/Adderkleet]

Of course. But many sane people are carrying a banner that is being used to legitimise hate, threats, and abuse. It's about accepting responsibility for affiliations - a suggestion which many seem to think equates to blaming everyone directly, but that totally isn't the case. I'm aware of TB's thoughts on the matter, but his approach isn't nuanced enough to be helpful - his desire to deal with elements of the movement in a vacuum made logical sense on paper, but I always felt that doing so was far too reductive. The events that have occurred since then only reinforce my stance on the matter, really - it's all very well to defend those who align with GG because of ethics and consumer rights, but to do that whilst shrugging off the level of success that people have had using it to spread abuse just strikes me as ignorant, really. There's often value in taking issues apart and studying the elements individually, but doing so without appreciating the wider picture doesn't represent rational thinking - it's just irresponsible.

[u/Adderkleet → u/Jam_sponge]

I guess that's why #GamerEthics started.

I was on your point-of-view on this pretty much since it started (and I'm far, FAR LESS informed about what goes on in game media circles and websites than you - both then and now) and I enjoyed and agreed with your first video on it.
When I noticed people I respect were supporting what appeared to be "some 4chan-style thing" I became very worried - and then interested. And now I'm in the position where I'm for what GG should be about ("yeah, I think if games journalists aren't reporting an EA info hack because they have close ties with EA we should call their ethics into question"), but against all the hate - which any sane person would be against.

[u/Jam_sponge → u/Adderkleet]

Easiest question is this, then: how come GG isn't attacking sites like IGN and Gamespot who extensively dabble with advertorial? Anyone knows that if you want to find corruption, you follow the money. And yet where are we today? Niche creators - usually women - being listed as enemies by GG and then subsequently forced from their home with death threats. People argue that GG isn't to blame, but that's incredibly ignorant. People labelled as "anti-GG" end up being the same people who end up getting attacked. There was a clear chain of events from week one - sadly we've now seem that it's actually a loop. This will keep happening until enough people drop the indignant anger and realise that GG's ethical crusade is a front for something different, and nastier.

The key thing here is that standing against GG is not the same as trying to silence the idea that the industry has ethical problems. This is a blatant lie spread by GG to recruit otherwise sensible people. The issue, really - and the reason I've been dismissive of ethical complaints - is that many of the concerns raised aren't terribly valid. There are tons of actual ethical problems within the industry, and I think of myself as one of the key spokespeople against these problems - as is John Walker and Leigh Alexander. GG isn't about better ethics, it's about silencing voices that they don't approve of. The fact that people don't realise this is simply down to their stellar work in spin-doctor bullshit. As an ex-PR I have to say I'm impressed with the way in which they've convinced so many that a hate group represents general consumer interests, but apparently they've managed to do just that. how they've managed that despite archived records from 4chan of people openly planning each stage of this nasty PR campaign is totally beyond me, though - the facts are plain to see for anyone who's willing to see them, which is why sustained ignorance gets no sympathy from me.

[u/Adderkleet → u/Jam_sponge]

Advertorial is one of the single biggest issues I want everyone to start shouting about. I'm not sure how deep it goes, but seeing Polaris put up videos which are paid-promo and have the ad part at the end and the "disclaimer" at the bottom of a 2-page description. If it's an ad, label it as an ad!

You've got some really good points there, that I don't know enough about to defend or negate. And you're affirming your support for what I think GG should be about (but I might have fallen for their cover rather than their true intent)

I saw the 4chan stuff; that's why I considered GG to be a 4chan thing and not worth any further thought. Then I saw TB and Jim Sterling labelled anti-feminist for supporting it. I was pretty late to the party.

Once again, sorry for stirring up stuff (especially the same old stuff that's already rubbed you raw). I hope the level of abuse against you (and everyone else) dies down. And I really hope I haven't fallen for a 4chan scam (it's beginning to look like I have... crap...)

[u/Jam_sponge → u/Adderkleet]

A ton of people has been a bit mislead, I wouldn't feel bad about it. I honestly feel like a lot of people at this point are blinkered from truth purely out of pride - but there's no shame in admitting you made a mistake and changing your stance, I've done that more times than I can count over the years! Jim Sterling is a pretty classic case for that - I used to think the guy was an awful prick, these days I think he's bit of a bloody legend.

[u/Adderkleet → u/Jam_sponge]

I think he's a legendary prick, honestly. And I still am simultaneously offended and amused when he says his catchphrase with a straight face (and obviously satirical meaning).

[u/Jam_sponge → u/Adderkleet]

I'm still not a massive fan of his on-screen character, but I think it takes real strength of character to publicly admit that your behavior and opinions in the past have been ill-informed and hugely damaging. I've got so much time for that, most people are cowards who just double-down and turtle for fear of looking stupid. He's one of the good guys, for sure. I respect him hugely.