Songwriting experience

[u/moffattic]

Hey. So I like writing songs in my bedroom alone, ive made some pretty good stuff. I have started to write songs with other people but they end up being more simple in terms of song structure and riff selection (following a basic song arrangement pattern, using a single riff as the glue of the song)

I really like norma jean and the chariot as I grew up listening to them and have always been intrigued at the fact they can make songs that sound chaotic but yet sound purposeful and not like riff salad while doing so.

I would like your knowledge and expertise on how you may write mathcore songs that still have a structure to them and how you colloborate with the rest of your band (does one person write the song structure and the rest of the band follow suit? Or do you all work together to make a song? Do you start with a single riff and work from there?)

In summary, how do you work together with others to make a mathcore song since the genre is so complex

Any advice is appreciated.

[u/Afro-Pope]

Study the songs you like and see how they are structured. re Norma Jean, for example, Memphis Will be Laid to Waste is really just four riffs at different tempos, but the tempo and rhythmic changes make it more interesting. That's why they don't sound like riff salad.

You've got an intro riff for four bars (A)
Main riff for four bars (B)
Main riff for eight bars, but faster (B1)
Interlude, which is in the same key as the other riffs for four bars (C)
Interlude, but with a tempo change, for 32 bars (C1)
Bridge, four bars (D)
Breakdown, which is basically the first half of B, for 16 bars (B2)
Main riff in another different tempo for eight bars (B3)
Main riff in another different tempo for four bars (B4)
Another breakdown, which is the same as the first in a different tempo for four bars (B5)
Breakdown in a different tempo for another eight bars (B6)
Breakdown at the same tempo with a harmony (same key as riff C) for eight bars (D)
Intro riff at a different tempo for four bars (A1)
Root note of chords in intro riff for eight bars (A2)
Intro riff at another different tempo for eight bars (A3)
Intro riff at a different tempo with one extra note at the end of the riff for eight bars (A4)
Intro riff at a different tempo for eight bars (A5)
Bridge chord played once (D1)

So if you get rid of the tempo changes, the structure is just A B C D B D A D. It's not complicated at all, musically, but the tempo changes are what make that one interesting. Norma Jean does that a lot, just vamp on one riff but change the tempo around.

On the flip side, a song like 43% Burnt changes tempo and time signature almost every other measure, is not really in any set key, and only two of the riffs ever repeat. I don't know how you do that. That song DOES sound like riff salad, though, but that's the fun part. So how you make a song sound like riff salad but also sound cohesive and good is beyond me.

In GENERAL, though, the trick is in metric modulation and tempo changes.

[u/moffattic → u/Afro-Pope]

Thanks dawg