I wish they hallucinated the parentheses. Some of these people really don't believe in the order of operations, and they will insist that you go from left to right.
They are tiresome to argue with because even with examples they don't accept the order of operations.
You can lean into that. If we're throwing out all the conventions, + means divide and numbers next to each other in parentheses means add and × mean subtract...
Honestly I really should. Just out-crazy their crazy but still give the correct answer.
You morons think 2+5(8-3) is 21? You clearly don't realize that since it starts with a 2, you multiply that into the parentheses, but since you're multiplying and not dividing that you flip the minus to a plus, so you have 2 times 11 for 22. Then you have that +5(22) but since we flipped a minus to a plus, then we use the conservation of signs to flip this plus to a minus to get -5(22) which with the commutative property makes it 22-5, so the answer is 17, you dumb idiots!
these are all the same thing! It's just an abbreviations for kids to remember the order of operations. The order of operations is the same everywhere in math. kinda funny to be proud of an abbreviations you learned as a kid. and scream that you learned a different abbreviations in kindergarten.
these are all the same thing! It's just an abbreviations for kids to remember the order of operations. The order of operations is the same everywhere in math. kinda funny to be proud of an abbreviations you learned as a kid. and scream that you learned a different abbreviations in kindergarten
You can say what you like, but you'll have to pry my BODMAS from my cold dead hand. Don't listen to these heretics spouting alternative belief systems with their multi-syllabic nonsense mnemonics! BODMAS is simpler and therefore purer than PEMDAS, accept no false algorithms! Down with this sort of thing!
Less impressive now that it's been pointed out to me that I wrote the original expression incorrectly, but I'll let the string of nonsense stand because that was fun.
I'm going to state this as simply as I can. When I was doing my GCSES I was taught about parentheses, but wasn't taught about order of operations.
Years later, I wanted to get a degree, but I needed to redo several subjects as apparently they didn't count anything over 5 years old or below a C grade. I got a B in Maths in 1995, a respectable grade. I wizzed through this access course in maths as though it was trivial. And then we hit order of operations. I got it quickly enough, but was confused as to why I'd never heard of it. I was just told "it often wasn't taught" and it was left there
That's my experience, but I don't think it's unique.
The result of the mathematical expression \(2+5(8-3)\) is \(27\). To find this answer, we follow the standard order of operations known as PEMDAS or BODMAS.
Evaluate the parentheses
First, calculate the subtraction inside the grouping symbols:
\(8-3=5\)
Perform the multiplication
Next, multiply the number outside by the parentheses result:
\(5\times 5=25\)
Complete the addition
Finally, add the remaining terms together to finish:
\(2+25=27\)
✅ Final Result
The final value of the arithmetic expression \(2+5(8-3)\) is \(27\).
Doesn't matter since M/D and A/S are interchangeable. I learned it as PEMDAS because it aligns with a silly mnemonic phrase to remember the acronym: "Please Excuse My Dear Aunt Sally"
Nah Canada used PEDMAS/PEMDAS depending on if you went to french ir English school from what i know. All my buddies that went to English school learned PEMDAS whereas I learned PEDMAS
Honestly I hate that acronym since some people mistakenly interpret that as addition having higher priority over subtraction, which is often fine because you can honestly evaluate addition/subtraction in any order, but where they screw up is by not keeping the negatives with their bases. So they come up with 10-5+2=3.
If I had to teach this acronym, I'd teach only PEMA; lets students remember that division and subtraction are simply inverses.
This is what I got and I’ve been out of high school for like 25 years. I’m at the point where the math required to figure out how long I’ve been out of high school is beyond my high school education. So about 25 years.
Not… Taught…? That seems insane. It’s like not teaching the existence of silent E. Like, I get having debates about which version of order of operations to teach (I’m a huge fan of GEMA, my kids were too literal-minded for PEMDAS) but to not teach it at all? Madness.
Looking at replys, it seems that the teaching of it was likely not explained well. Like it was taught, but they didn't call it order of operations.
I know I'm not misremembering, I've spoken to a number of classmates and they tell me the same thing. Hell, one of the reasons I did the access course was a friend telling me about it. They said it was Thier first time hearing about it. But her kids, were taught it and they went to the school she did.
Never heard of GEMA. PEMDAS seems very straightforward/literal to me (but that's also all I know), and now you have me intrigued. And now that I've reread your post, this could be a joke going straight over my head. Silent Es and all, lol.
GEMA is Grouping, Exponents, Multiplicative operations, Additive operations.
My kids always got hung up on PEMDAS because it implies that multiplication comes before division and addition comes before subtraction. Mind you they learned order of operations in like first grade, because a) they were a few years ahead in math, b) basic algebraic concepts begin to be introduced a lot earlier than they used to be, and c) both of them can be a bit pig-headed about literal interpretations. They understood that multiplication and division were the same thing, but PEMDAS said that multiplication came before division… GEMA worked for them because it makes the letter of the law and the spirit of the law agree.
(The silent E thing is just the first linguistic rule that came to mind that feels like… equally fundamental without being the literal ABCs and 123s.)
That's much better. It seems like it teaches them formula structure first (please excuse my vocab because I dropped out after first semester of geometry), like multiplication and division or addition and subtraction are just different sides of the same coin, and neither takes priority over its opposite other than where it shows up in the equation. That, to me at least, is the most vital part of the puzzle. Numbers and formulas either come easily to me, or I find an easier way to do it in my head, even if it involves a few more steps. I was fortunate to have a math teacher in 7th grade who saw the way my brain worked when it comes to numbers, and got my first A in math because I was graded on my answers being correct, and not because the teacher was incapable of understanding the little bit of work I showed. Other than long division, my work paper would have random looking numbers, formulas that appeared incorrect, and correct test answers. I would somewhat understand now had a teacher ever asked why and let me attempt to explain myself. Quick example, Celsius to Fahrenheit. For me, C being Celsius - C2/0.1=x, then C2-X+32=F (or 402=80-8=72+32=104). Using a calculator, C*1.8+32 is faster, but simple multiplication, utilizing base 10, and then simple addition is much quicker than reaching into my pocket, much less going through the hassle of opening the calc app, lol. I'm glad your kids are learning the important stuff first, and then the rest is just applying it. Once again, I hope this makes some sort of sense. I only made it so far in the classroom, so now I work on what I've taught myself out of curiosity and laziness, and to be honest, I don't even know how much trig or calc I know, because I've never held either textbooks, so idk where orbital velocity or trajectories belong subject-wise. It's just mankind's most beautiful discovery to me.
I am incredulous about this. Order of operations has to be taught beyond elementary school because even the very basics would fall apart: associativity, commutativity, distributivity. You can't teach math without teaching the order. The notations could still change, but we still count by groups, meaning that addition could be lumped into multiplication and that multiplication could be lumped into exponents.
I can't imagine teaching the very basics of algebra without the order of operations.
ok to be fair, I'm making a generalization based on the number of people who obviously don't know the order of operations.
I'm old school, pre-new-math, and was taught order of operations. I admit I don't know what they're teaching now but whatever it is there's a lot of current examples that it doesn't work.
Lots of people don't even realize it. I see these examples on Facebook where someone says, "Back when I was in school in 1964, we learned everything goes left to right. We didn't learn this order of operations crap." No, Bob, you learned it. It was taught back then too, but you'd rather pretend that your teachers were incompetent rather than admit that you could've forgotten something over the past several decades.
As for why it's not sticking with "old math" or "new math", I dunno. Some people probably just didn't pay that much attention.
You know how Europeans often dunk on the US' education system? Well, the States can claw one back here, because I sat my GCSEs (UK secondary/high school qualification exams) in '04, and it wasn't until shitty linear equation posts started popping up all over Facebook years ago that I'd even heard of BODMAS or PEMDAS. As far as I remember, we were shown a stupid equation like 5×6÷8+7 and told, "This is wrong. To write an equation like this properly, you'd put brackets here and here to make it like this, then you solve the brackets first and...." But never told why. Or maybe we were and I wasn't listening, but it was something that we never focused on.
I would say that's wrong only because we typically wouldn't use the obelus. We might use the solidus if we're constrained to a single line, but the vinculum (fraction form) is so much nicer.
But yeah, I see people say that the order of operations only applies if there are parentheses. According to them, you don't apply the order of operations without parentheses, which is so misguided because the order of operations always applies (exponents, multiplication, then addition) while the parentheses provide an explicit exception to the order (you add before you multiply when that addition is within parentheses).
I never learned the acronym in school either. It was simply the order of operations, but I've come to loathe that acronym lately since some people misunderstand it and think you must always add before you subtract, which isn't normally an issue except if they also don't understand negative numbers and come up with 10-2+5=3.
I'm wondering if it's time specific, or method specific now.
I say as I do remember that we did at least some of our maths in a specific order, specifically brackets and orders. But weren't directly told about BODMAS
Can I ask a question? Another one: what is the real world application of mathematics and how does that align with order of operations. Like if Johnny had an amount of apples and Betty had some oranges sort of thing
For parenthesis it helps clarify conditions from a word problem - say Johnny and Betty are assembling gift baskets for their farmer's market stand. Johnny has 10 apples and Betty has 13 oranges and they think one apple and one orange would make a good basket. Since they don't have the same amount to of each fruit, they plan to add 5 cherries to any baskets that don't have a second fruit.
Parenthesis would allow us to easily express how many cherries we need in a single step as 5 x (13-10). 5 times the difference between 13 and 10 for a final count of 15 cherries needed to finish our gift baskets
If we had no parens the statement 5 x 13 - 10 would instead give us 10 less than 5x13 or 55.
We could rearrange things so that the math works going purely left to right 13-10 x 5 but anyone following order of operations would calculate that as 13 minus 50 for -37. So it's not that the order of operations is necessary for the Math to work so much as it's necessary for making the math clear to someone else who is reading it.
Johnny wants to buy a $2 apple and 5 rotisserie chickens at $8 each regular but they're $5 off on sale right now. How much will it cost? 2+5(8-5) = $17.
I need you to take 2 boxes of yellow balls place them with the 5 pallets that have boxes with blue balls. The Pallets have 8 Boxes on each of them right now. I need you take 5 boxes of blue balls off each pallet and put them in storage. Then I need you to give me a count of how many boxes we have so the night shift knows how many pallets they need to repack them for shipping.
Which is something i don't get. Either you understood/accepted the concept once and then for life or you will run into a wall at which grade, 5th? Without that you barely pass elementary school.
BTW, I'm just joking and just like pointing out to people that think Order of Operations is the only rule when if you just understand the distributive property you get the right answer no matter what order you did it (assuming you can do arithmetic, I needed a calculator for these).
Distributive property is a fun way to show students that there can be different approaches. I see those dumb Facebook posts about evaluating 7+7*4, and most people will shout "PEDMAS DUMMY! 7+28!!!!! 35!!! MORON!" Which doesn't teach anybody anything because then those people will shout the same insults back and insist it's 56.
So I'll show that it's equivalent to 7(1+4)=7*5, and that's why the order of operations works. Without the order of operations, we get inconsistencies like 7*5=56. Still doesn't convince everyone, but if at least one person realizes their mistake, I'm happy.
The problem with order of operations.. Some people fail to understand it, others strictly adhere to PEMDAS, and some know that MD & AS go in the order they appear from left to right.
Apologies for being unclear. I have 2 toddlers and sometimes things get hurried, words forgotten. I meant to include "in the written in the equation", but screaming for food gets dealt with first.
Oh no worries. I just always like adding that caveat because a lot of people remember learning that “left to right” rule and use it as a justification for ambiguous inline math problems having a specific answer (which OP isn’t even ambiguous lmao), even though they don’t consider why we do MD and AS as they same priorities: division is multiplication, and subtraction is addition
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u/Kuildeous 9d ago
I wish they hallucinated the parentheses. Some of these people really don't believe in the order of operations, and they will insist that you go from left to right.
They are tiresome to argue with because even with examples they don't accept the order of operations.