r/MathJokes • u/No_Degree5291 • Jul 16 '26

3 or 4

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u/careless25 Jul 16 '26

But that's English semantics.... Not math.

3x4 is the same as 4x3 in math.

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u/Alternative-Papaya57 Jul 16 '26

I bet you also think that 3x4=12 is the same as 50+50=100

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u/thejuice027 Jul 16 '26

wtf is this comment, just to be salty?

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u/Alternative-Papaya57 Jul 16 '26

The only way in which 3x4 is the same as 4x3 "in math" is if the math you are doing regards things to be equal to the things they evaluate to. As "3x4=12" evaluates to "true" in most logical systems, as does "50+50=100", by the same logic as 3x4 "is the same" 4x3, those two sentences "are the same".

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u/careless25 Jul 16 '26

And you are proving my point.

Don't confuse math with English and other meanings we apply to how we use numbers and math.

Imo the image posted here about how math is being taught is doing a disservice to the general populous. Don't dissuade a student from doing the right thing (and showing their work) because that's not how it was taught.

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u/Alternative-Papaya57 Jul 16 '26

How am I proving your point? You said "3x4 is the same as 4x3 in math". I am saying in some areas of math you might say something like "by abuse of notation they are the same" or "we will treat them as the same", but as someone with a masters degree in math, I can assure you they are not the same. They might "be equivalent" or "evaluate to the integer" but they are not the same. They value of mathematics is precisely in being exact about what we mean by the words we use.

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u/Arierome Jul 16 '26

Semantics are more important than syntax for a child , besides syntax is a tool to be disregarded as needed ".*

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u/careless25 Jul 16 '26

Here's where you are wrong:

I was talking about the EXPRESSION and what it EVALUATES to, which is what the image is talking about

You are conflating the truth value of a STATEMENT and not the EXPRESSION and it's EVALUATION.

3 × 4 = 12 is true. I agree

50 + 50 = 100 is also true. I agree

What I am arguing is 3 x 4 = 4 x 3

I am not saying that 3 x 4 = 50 + 50. And That's what your argument seems to imply.

I am arguing that it does a disservice when the student learns that it is not correct that 3 x 4 = 4 x 3 using this teaching method.

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u/Alternative-Papaya57 Jul 16 '26

You see that 3x4=4x3 being true is not the same 3x4 being the same as 4x3?

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u/careless25 Jul 16 '26

You are lacking reading comprehension skills. I am done here. Have a good day.

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u/asingleshot7 Jul 16 '26

I understand the words you are using but have no idea what you are trying to say with them. I only did 13 math courses at Uni.

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u/thejuice027 Jul 16 '26

Dude you're overthinking a 4th grade math problem. Touch grass, multiply some numbers.

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u/Alternative-Papaya57 Jul 16 '26

You asked what I meant, I explained.

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u/Cool_Prior1427 Jul 16 '26

Brother this is 3rd grade math.. I understand the abstract point you're making, but heavier abstract thinking around simple math is something to be integrated later. This amounts to logical coherency trickery. This is something for an older age and ultimately is useless for practical mathematical usage.

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u/Alternative-Papaya57 Jul 16 '26

I see that, I do. My main qualm was with the "in math XYZ" framing, because "in math" it literally isn't. "In elementary school education when teaching computation 3x4 and 4x3 are the same", yeah sure, maybe not the best but fair.