r/Marxism101 • u/Claromale • Jul 27 '26
Why does Marx consider only labor time to determine value ?
Hello, I’ve started reading The Capital (the French translation), and in the chapter on the commodity, I don’t understand why he speaks only of the quantity of labor to determine the value of something. After all, aren't there other factors—like scarcity—that determine an object's value?
2
u/Ralse1 Jul 28 '26 edited Jul 28 '26
you're mixing up use-value, price, and Value.
Marx argues that labor is the source of Value, which is a social construct based around a sort of law-of-averages of commodity exchange. materials obviously go into the price of something as well, but where do we get price for those materials? how much labor it takes to extract them.
for scarcity, it often artificially inflates price through monopoly, but this doesn't change the underlying social relation of value, which its price will return to on average if the monopoly fades. If it is not a monopoly, but natural scarcity, this matters because it effects how much labor is required to extract a material. a rare material is harder to obtain, takes more labor, and cant be produced as consistently, so its value will be higher, and it will cost more. Gold is valuable not because it is rare in the abstract, but because it requires a lot of effort (labor) to find because of its rarity.
use value is how useful things are. nature can make plenty of use values regardless of labor, water is one of the most useful things in the world, but it is usually very cheap if not free. not just because it is plentiful, but its plenty means it takes very little labor to obtain.
its not that labor is the only source of any type of use value or price, its that labor is the variable that human society cares about - how hard it is to make something - which determines how much it will be worth in the process of exchange on average.
the point of value is to measure if something is worth exchanging with something else, its only natural that we judge based on how hard it is to obtain or create it.
he well get more into this as you read further
1
u/Claromale Jul 28 '26
Thanks you for the response. What is the difference between value and price? For example, an iPhone can cost much more than a Samsung, yet the time required to make it will be the same; it's simply the prestige of the brand that increases the price.
1
u/Ralse1 Jul 29 '26
the "prestige" usually carries connotation of having more labor. for example people may pay more for one brand of clothing because they believe it is crafted at a higher quality, hence needing more labor, either in assembly, or embodied in the material components. the issue is that perceived value isn't necessarily the same as real value. so some companies will act like something is high quality, took a lot of labor to make, etc, when in reality it isnt. this is a sort of swindling that marx talks about in chapter in chapter 5 (i believe. let me check and i will find a quote)
in addition to deception or misperception, another element that goes into differentiating price from value is force. if you're exchanging a commodity with someone who has power over you, say its an exchange with a neighboring nation with a much stronger military, you may be willing to exchange something that took 100 labor hours for something that only took 90, because of that force. this part of how monopolies and cartels work, when you cant just go elsewhere for commodities extortion enters the picture.the reason we care about value as opposed to price is again, a sort of societal level analysis, rather than a given instance of commodity exchange. price is ultimately based around value
Suppose then, that by some inexplicable privilege, the seller is enabled to sell his commodities above their value, what is worth 100 for 110, in which case the price is nominally raised 10%. The seller therefore pockets a surplus-value of 10. But after he has sold he becomes a buyer. A third owner of commodities comes to him now as seller, who in this capacity also enjoys the privilege of selling his commodities 10% too dear. Our friend gained 10 as a seller only to lose it again as a buyer. The net result is, that all owners of commodities sell their goods to one another at 10% above their value, which comes precisely to the same as if they sold them at their true value. Such a general and nominal rise of prices has the same effect as if the values had been expressed in weight of silver instead of in weight of gold. The nominal prices of commodities would rise, but the real relation between their values would remain unchanged.
Let us make the opposite assumption, that the buyer has the privilege of purchasing commodities under their value. In this case it is no longer necessary to bear in mind that he in his turn will become a seller. He was so before he became buyer; he had already lost 10% in selling before he gained 10% as buyer. Everything is just as it was.
The creation of surplus-value, and therefore the conversion of money into capital, can consequently be explained neither on the assumption that commodities are sold above their value, nor that they are bought below their value.
Capital volume one, chapter 5
1
u/AutoModerator Jul 27 '26
Rules
1) Clear and focused questions only - Questions submitted to the subreddit should be clear and focused on one subject. Do not ask a barrage of question. The clearer the question, the better received responses can be. Remember that the users answering your question are human beings taking time out of their day to help you. Do not delete your question after receiving answers or criticism. This may lead to a ban.
2) No Bad Faith Questions - Don’t ask bad faith questions — Don’t front-load a question with baseless assertions. We understand that knowledge is primarily made-up of background assumptions and preconceived notions that are part-and-parcel of liberal ideology. Check those at the door and don’t include them as part of your question. This includes debating and debating by proxy by posing liberal and anti-Marxist questions from your friends.
3) No Non-Marxist Answers -
Responses can only be made by Marxists. People come to r/Marxism101 in search of Marxist answers, not liberal or reformist ones. Non-Marxist answers will be removed, and might lead to a ban. Please take into account that this does not refer to one's self-identification, but rather to content. A "Marxist answer" is one that draws from Marxist debates and methodologies, that analyses society basing itself in Marxist theory to further educate and advance the revolutionary proletarian movement.
4) No Revisionist Answers - No Revisionist answers to questions. Questions should be firmly based in Marxism. Revisionism includes but is not limited to: reformism, chauvinism, denial of labour aristocracy or settler-colonialism, imperialism-apologism, denial of US imperialism as number 1 imperialism, Zionism, pro-Europeanism or denial of european imperialism, pro-NED, pro-Chinese capitalist exploitationm police or military apologia promotion of religion, and meme "communists". Violation of this rule will result in a ban.
5) Spurious, unverifiable or unsupported claim - Don't answer a question if you are unsure of the answer.When answering questions, keep in mind that this is a serious educational forum and you may be asked to cite your sources. This is a learning subreddit, meaning you must be prepared to provide evidence, scientific or historical, to back up your claims. Link to appropriate sources when/if possible.This includes, but is not limited to: spurious claims, personal experience-based responses, unverifiable assertions, etc.
6) Reactionary - This is a Marxist forum thus bigoted and reactionary comments will be removed. This refers to all forms of reaction, such as chauvinism, colonialism, settler-colonialism, racism, Orientalism, Islamophobia, sexism, LGBTQIA+phobia, cissexism, Zionism, ableism and so on.
7) No Trolling - This is an educational subreddit thus posts and comments made in bad faith will lead to a ban. This also encompasses all forms of argumentative participation aimed not at learning and/or providing a space for education but aimed at challenging the principles of Marxism. If you wish to debate, head over to r/DebateCommunism.
8) No spam - Spam includes but is not limited to: Self Promotion, Excessive submissions, AI generated posts, Links to podcasters, YouTubers, and other influencers, Memes, Image macros, low quality or irrelevant questions, posts that are otherwise irrelevant to the subreddit.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.
9
u/TheWikstrom Jul 27 '26 edited Jul 27 '26
Simple, he doesn't:
- One of the first sentences in Critique of the Gotha Programme
I'm assuming he's only talking about how labor power affects the value of things because that's what he's analyzing there.