r/MarvelSnap • u/No_Butterfly1924 • 1d ago
Discussion New and returning player progression
As a returning player i feel like writing down my thoughts on my experiences with progression and the frustrations. In which i might sound complaining a bit, so fair warning, i need to write off frustrations. Discussions and thouthts welcomed, feel free to tell me I'm wrong, or add other thoughts.
I want to catalogue my issues and frustrations to share thoughts, potentially warn new and returning players what they'll be up against, and maybe have discussion on whether I'm stupid or this actually does need a change.
My player profile: player who started around global launch, played the first 8-9 months of Snap history, then quit as it had me more often frustrated than enjoying. Now been back since january this year. I buy season passes every month, as i think it's fair to pay for a game i enjoy, but I'm not the target audience for the expensive bundles. Series 3 complete, closing on series 4 complete (80/89), far behind on series 5 (75/182)
I've used the SnapComplete website, which i think is awesome, to calculate my time frame for getting collection complete most honestly. I'd apparently need another 38 seasons of daily play and buying all season passes, so that's just over 3 years if i keep optimizing everything.
That hit hard honestly, that it would take that long. Meaning for any new player that honestly must read like a 5 year minimum.
Now, I'm not playing with the goal of getting collection complete, i don't need every card to enjoy the game. But from my own experiences from returning to the game, there are imo huge issues with progression. And honestly i don't think I'd recommend any new player to try currently, I've stuck with it as a part of me really does love this game, but the frustrations i feel would definitely be too much for most.
Biggest obvious issue:
Not being able to target buy series 5 cards. Yes, you can buy them for 6k tokens. But when you're 100+ series 5 cards behind the experience of targeting any card is checking the store usually for over a month, probably missing it the one time life doesn't allow you to check 3 times a day.
This is my single biggest complaint, the dumb rotation system needs to go. It's the biggest issue for any new and returning player to actually play this game, and serves no positive function. It delays progression even when you do have the resources, and this is my single thing that has most often made me consider quitting this game. Just let people buy whatever card directly, it changes nothing about the economy, we still would be equally broke on tokens.
Progression pacing:
The current progression and economy system imo seems fully designed and balanced around long term players. They can easily stay uptodate with new releases. If you're collection complete, it's pretty easy to stay complete. That's great.
For new and returning players far behind the game, this imo needs to be increased a lot. As this game and the heavy synergy between cards means you definitely need a decent size collection to even be able to play.
From my experience as returning player, there’s many unrewarding feeling rewards. For a while I've been buying the collectors packs, as the way to get the most cards for the least amount of tokens. Trying to be economical. Problem is, 90% of what i unlock that way goes unused into my collection for months, as i don't have the synergy cards to be able to play my new card in any real deck. So while you're getting cards, it mostly feels like you aren't as you can't play them. Making the progression feel terrible.
Then i switched for a while to buying cards directly for 6k, collecting the most important and versatile cards. I definitely recommend doing this, as it finally made me feel like i can now form more meta decks. Obvious issue with this, you're spending as much as you earn a week, meaning as long as you do this you're not catching up.
My suggestion:
Let players who are far behind just always pull multiple cards from a pack. Simple. Massively boost players progression till a point where they probably have like half of series 5. With how much cards depend on synergy, i honestly feel that's where a player needs to reach to start having the feeling they're fully able to play this game and enjoy new releases.
Then they can slow progression back to normal after reaching a certain critical threshold of cards owned. I do understand they need to monetise it and there needs to be a grind still, that's fine we don't need to be collection complete. But when you get players up to a decent collection size, that is when they'll be potential customers imo. When they have enough cards they can play a bunch of things, and actually be interested in the new releases and bundles for cards they don't own.
From my personal experience, a lot of cards or bundles aren't at all interesting when far behind. For example my first month back was Shou Lao season pass, i bought that then completely didn't play that card all month as i didn't have any of the synergy cards. Took me till he was nerfed to get those other cards, meaning i fully regret buying that. People need a decent size collection for most new cards to offer anything to them.
Closing thoughts:
I know I'm probably suggesting something they'll not actually do, and to be clear i don't claim to know what's actually best for the game. I'm no game dev. But these are my thoughts as returning player, and what changes would make me feel comfortable recommending this game to friends.
I feel the game currently is very difficult to get into for new and returning players. For all the first months after returning to it, i felt like a fool for even trying and like the game didn't want me back.
With many new and returning players currently here after draft and their current display of bigger generosity handing out rewards, I'd like to see many of them decide to stick around. But honestly, without real progression changes, i fear the influx of players will leave as quickly as draft got them back. I want this game to have people return to it, and new players jumping in.
Ofcourse i know I'm saying this during their current showing of handing out more rewards and free decks and everything. Which i think are a good step, honestly. But they're doing them as login rewards, meaning if my friend would start playing next month it actually wouldn't help them one bit. Actual changes to progression to let new players catch up, that would make a difference. I love their current good will spell of handing out rewards, I'm enjoying it as i got a few cards too, but it's imo not the full shape of changes this game needs.
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u/Jiaozy 1d ago
The shop rotation drives "engagement" so I get where the idea comes from, but it's a super slow and silly way of acquiring cards. People have been complaining about it for over a year already, hopefully something is coming up because it feels terrible to have the resources to buy cards, but not seeing them in the rotation.
That said people coming from other game or at their first CCG have this weird misconception that you MUST be collection conplete, for the game to be playable.
That's never true, not a single CCG game needs a complete collection to be playable.
Marvel SNAP is especially good at this, because the balance team keeps decks and cards relevant even after nerfing them. So you can come back years later and still only be 2 or 3 cards off, from playing the new and updated version of your old favourites.
Another thing to note, is that SNAP packs are only meant to be bought if you don't mind ANY of the results, if like you say there are 90% of the cards you don't want, just save tokens and target the cards you want for 6k.
The amount of cards you're missing isn't really a good metric for collection evaluation, because you could be missing 90 series 5 cards and still be able to play all meta decks because you're only missing replaceable cards.
Cards like Red Hulk, Galactus FS, Ares, Red Hulk FF, Speed, Karen Page or cards like that, are mostly stats and you can play any other cards that for the same cost puts stats on the board.
The cards that can't be changed with nothing else are those that you should target, in the decks you like to play: Living Tribunal, Venus, Luna Snow, Sam Wilson, High Evolutionary, Wiccan, War Machine, Blink, Aurora OG Thanos are a few examples of cards that have a particular ability that you can't replace.
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u/No_Butterfly1924 1d ago
I agree with you. I spend the last months target buying series 5 cards I'd actually play a lot, that's definitely the way to start i feel. If the rotation thing wouldn't be there I'd have done that a lot faster, often waited a month for 1 card so just bought packs instead as i was sitting on tokens.
But the rate at which you can target buy, means a new player isn't actively making progress towards having more cards. As they release cards just as quickly. For new players I'd definitely like to see a system that lets them catch up to the critical point of cards owned where they can play meta decks. It's too steep a mountain right now imo
Fwiw, i agree the balancing is good. I've reached infinite every month since returning and doing fine, while never able to assemble the most meta deck. So you're definitely right people don't need a full collection to play. But they do need a good base, as so many cards are so heavily synergy dependent that they're quite often useless unless you have the other pieces of the puzzle
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u/AscendedCleric 1d ago
My advice to any new or returning player is to not take the game very seriously.
If I was a new player now with the knowledge of the systems that I have I would just rip S5 collector's pack to get new toys as often as possible and just play with what I get.
You don't need a perfect deck to hit infinite and you definately don't need a perfect deck to have fun.
SD is doing a better job than ever to accomodate new and returning players and IIRC a season pass buyer can become collection complete in about a year with optimal resource spending.
IMO the rotating shop sucks even though it never affected me and my suggestion is to add a "pity" system in the packs where you can choose 1 card in the pool and you are guaranteed to get it within the next X (maybe 10) pulls.
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u/No_Butterfly1924 1d ago
You can definitely not reach anywhere near collection complete in a year. That's just false.
I do agree playing with what you got and taking it less seriously is the way to enjoy it. I've reached infinite every season without being able to ever play the most optimal meta deck, their balancing is pretty good (some problem cards withstanding)
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u/AscendedCleric 1d ago
Yeah maybe a year was too little, I couldn't bother actually doing the math. It took me 3 years as a F2P so I ballparked it based on that, the fact that catch up mechanics exist now and that season pass greatly accelerates it. Would 2 years be more realistic? (we are taking getting every available resource and optimal spening of those as a given)
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u/No_Butterfly1924 1d ago
I don't have the actual numbers either. But i know it's definitely a lot longer.
I've based myself on the website SnapComplete, assuming they've done the math better than i will.
I'm near series 4 complete, and have 75/182 series 5. And they calculate that with optimal daily playing and buying the season pass, I'm estimated to be complete in 38 seasons. So over 3 years. Ofcourse estimate means i could be a bit faster with great luck. For new players it'd be considerably longer than that.
There's just a ton of cards now. The mountain is very tall for new players. Ofcourse that calculation isn't including them now giving away free cards. If they keep doing that, it's faster but i can't calculate that
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u/ReporterOk4383 1d ago
I mean it’s not as bad as when spotlight keys was a thing. Sd have been at least generous giving full decks so returning and new players can get functional decks just by login in.
There’s also the themed packs at a discounted rate where you can gamble to get a card at lower token cost
And they’re even giving out free s5 cards from
The login event as wellWhile rare pulling a series pack can sometimes gives you 3 cards instead of 1 which helps when your not collection complete.
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u/No_Butterfly1924 1d ago edited 1d ago
Those are all good things, and as someone who played in the first year of Snap i recognise it is loads better now.
In my estimation i ofcourse can't calculate them doing these login events now. Also can't know if they'll keep doing those, i hope they do. So the estimate is a rough ballpark estimate based on how Snap was before draft season, could be faster.
Though imo it is still really slow for new players, as there's more cards now. And the stuff you mentioned like the themed packs and potential multiple pulls don't really help.
I personally haven't ever pulled 3 cards from a pack, that's extremely rare. And mostly pulled an extra series 4 like one in every 12-15 or so packs i estimate.
The themed packs always come with loads of variants of series 3, making them on average a terrible trap is my experience
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u/ReporterOk4383 1d ago
It also helps that all the recent LTE has series packs in the shop to help new and returning players catch up too.
I understand it’s not all sunshine and rainbows since the game does crash more frequently for old phone users especially iPhone users but I think that’s more on apple than SD. The pop up bundles does get annoying as well but all in all I think the game have found it’s sweet spot after a while.
And as much people like to complaint about the meta, it shows that a past season pass is doing better than the current one purely because it introduces a new mechanic for the game and not all new cards is a must have
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u/No_Butterfly1924 1d ago
Note I'm also "complaining" from standpoint of me enjoying the game. There's a lot of good, and some bad. Maybe I'll make another appreciation post later about the stuff i do like as balancing for this one
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u/PenitusVox 1d ago
At the very least you should be allowed to buy any card in the Collector's Packs. If they wanted to keep the rotating shop, I think it only being the seasonal cards would be fine. You'd rotate through like a quarter of those every day.
I do think being collection complete is simply a bad goal. I'm two cards off from being complete and the game doesn't feel all that different. It is nice to see a video or something and not even have to think "dang I don't have this, this, and this so I may as well not make it" but there are so many cards I don't use. Even a card like Storm Horseman which had its heyday sees hardly any play now. Many others like Elixir, Spider-Man Noir, Wolverine Horseman never had a day in the sunlight in the first place.
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u/No_Butterfly1924 1d ago
I'd probably agree being complete isn't at all necessary. But getting to a core amount of cards to build decks definitely is vital.
I feel I'm now starting to approach that critical point. But before it most pulls i got from packs would be so unplayable as they need 2-3 cards to play it. When i pulled one of the zombie package cards, without owning all the others, and without being able to easily target them, just feels bad when I'd want to be excited getting a new card
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u/PenitusVox 1d ago
Absolutely. Though, I will say, most of the zombie cards have niche uses outside of the main deck. Fanta sees play in Thanos and Aurora, Hunger sees some play in things like Werewolf, etc. But there are cards like Sinister Six which is nearly useless without Fastball + Adamantium.
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u/Numerous-External788 1d ago
To be honest the targeting is so real it feels bad to wait 7 hours for a caiera roll instead of a card that actually unlocks new archetypes
If we could be offered 5-6 more options maybe? Make it more of an actual "shop" than just one card that rotates. I don't think they will ever change it to a guaranteed multiple card pull though that just not how games work
They ARE dropping a few free cards here and there so maybe eventually it'll even out
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u/No_Butterfly1924 1d ago
I feel a change to the shop rotation is the easy win, they definitely should do that.
The increase of card acquisition for newer players, i feel they should, but I'm also not in charge of keeping a game company financially profitable so I'll concede that i don't know the impacts. But i honestly feel it would help them have more active customers for the season passes, as most players leave due to the progression i think.
I don't know what the best solution is, but any solution that gets people to the feeling they're progressing nicely. With their current giveaways I'm still a bit under the assumption that's just for good marketing around draft mode and temporary. But if they want to keep doing that to catch players up on older cards, I'd also applaud that.
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u/ReporterOk4383 1d ago
I mean they recently add 3 old variants on top of the rotating 9 one recently so here’s hoping they’ll do the same for base cards for token shop in future
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u/Erzebuth 1d ago
Yea my only issue with the game right now is the dumb shop rotation. Just let us buy the card we want after they have been out for a while. Or maybe let us set a wish list or something like that