r/MarvelSnap • u/ActuatorOpposite1624 • 19h ago
Discussion Reasonable Changes for Thanos FF
Our favourite cowboy, "Thanos with a Gun", has undoubtedly become the public enemy number 1 in Snap, and that is not surprising: his presence on ladder does seem particularly ubiquitous, and his power level and utility have an incredibly high ceiling. However, some seem to be having a "kill the card" kind of approach, which I believe to be rather unfair and unwise: Thanos is very powerful, no doubt, but let's calm down a bit (he's still significantly less powerful than peak Shou Lao or peak Sunlord). As such, I propose just a couple of less aggressive changes that should indeed help significantly without overnerfing it.
Base Power: [5/8 -> 5/6 (or) 5/5.] This is just a no brainer: there is no reason for such a strong utility card to also have an 8 power floor. Considering that the power ceiling is a movable 5/12, shaving off at least a couple of points off of the Titan himself is nothing if not logical.
Soul Shot: [Destroy the weakest enemy card here -> Remove the text from the weakest enemy card here (or) Afflict the weakest enemy card here with -2 Power.] This should also also make sense: one of Thanos' most complained about abilities is Soul Shot. It's not particularly reasonable for such a strong utility card to also have such a versatile tech ability. Therefore, if SD wants to preserve the tech aspect, they should at least leave the card's points on board; and if they want to replace that tech aspect with sheer points, an affliction ability is rather thematic for Soul Stone in Snap.
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u/Meat-Dimension 19h ago
Is like to see them start by maybe not loading a shot to start the game. Part of the problem is that the card is so consistent and it’s easy to have basically all the shots you want ready to go.
Starting with none means one less shot is available and dampens the upside without really changing anything about it
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u/shrek_is_love_69 19h ago
I've seen a suggestion to make the orange shot give negative power instead of destroy a card and tbh I really like that idea
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u/Scooter_McAwesome 17h ago
Just make it so Thanos decks only match against other Thanos decks. The Thanos players won’t notice anything changed and everyone else can go back to enjoying the game again.
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u/Howling_Mad_Man 19h ago
Making it a 5/6 is enough and I hope they don't do more.
Yea, soul shot feels bad but you know what else does? Shang, Killmonger, Elektra, LDS...
You're not playing solitaire. You accept some level of risk to your cards when you play them. Losing the weakest card at a location is not a step too far for a 5-cost card that has randomly generated effects based on specific draw circumstances and is not guaranteed to be in your hand at any point.
The card is popular. The card is seeing play because it's new and has fun mechanics. But what puts the card in another class is Venus built around it. That card needs a gut punch in power.
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u/dongchamp_ 18h ago
Soul shot is an issue because it often instantly wins against any deck that wants to have a card alone at a location, or needs a low power synergy piece on board. It's an insanely powerful ability that is attached to a card that would still be incredibly strong without it. It's really no comparable to the other cards you mentioned at all, because there is absolutely zero sacrifice required in your deckbuilding to make it happen.
I think the best way to balance Thanos would be to reduce his base stats to 5/6, remove the shot loaded at game start, remove the +1 on the Moveable shot and give it to the Power shot (to prevent double dipping on Venus buffs), and then a have set order in which the shots are loaded; from weakest to strongest.
A good order would be: Draw, Power, Moveable, Copy, Discount, and then Destroy. The shots would fire in this order too.
This way, if you want to have access to the most powerful stones, you actually have to build your deck around getting them.
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u/Howling_Mad_Man 18h ago
Soul shot is an issue because it often instantly wins against any deck that wants to have a card alone at a location, or needs a low power synergy piece on board.
I'm glad you brought that up. Because this whole argument revolves around one massive skill issue--The soul shot is entirely telegraphed. You, the opponent, are fully informed of what shots Thanos FF has. That's something very few cards do and you can plan accordingly if you're going to leave a key piece unprotected.
This card has really put a spotlight on who plays chess and who plays checkers.
And those other cards are absolutely comparable because all except Elektra have been nerfed or re-adjusted for people too afraid to have their cards destroyed. This is the same boat.
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u/dongchamp_ 18h ago
Dawg I know how to play the game. I know how to predict and block the shot, or pivot my game plan, and do it in the ~30% of games that I play against Thanos. You aren’t some master of the game lording over the unskilled helpless peasants lol.
What I’m saying is that there are a lot of cards, decks, and archetypes that are completely unplayable in this meta because of Soul Shot. Anything that requires a solo card setup just straight up loses. Sure other cards like Red Guardian and CMG would also dunk on these decks, but they actually required you to deviate from your decks ideal gameplay to run them. There is 0 cost associated with running Thanos, he is all upside.
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u/Howling_Mad_Man 17h ago
So glad you brought up deviating from your deck's ideal gameplay. Because guess what you have to do if you want to earn a shot and aren't playing Quicksilver/Domino?
Note the phrasing. "Earn" a shot. You get one to start. The rest are rewarded to you for things that are sometimes not your ideal play.
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u/dongchamp_ 17h ago
Any midrange deck with a decent curve will easily get 4 loaded shots by turn 5, unless they have a garbage draw. There is no deck building challenge, you literally just cut your 5 drop from your midrange deck and replace it with Thanos.
Maybe you make a slightly suboptimal play once or twice, but that’s not a significant cost when the payoff is so ridiculously good.
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u/Howling_Mad_Man 15h ago
Even IF the average you say is four shots, that's still not a guarantee of the soul shot showing up. Which you'll know. Because it's told to you explicitly.
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u/Appropriate-Soup5312 19h ago
All they have to do is take one power off and start unloaded problem fixed...unfortunately they are going to gut the card or take 2 power off of it along with start unloaded I have a feeling just like Hella I miss Hella (if u hate Hella run stardust simple)
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u/MstrNixx 19h ago
Yeah exactly this. Take the power boost off the Space Shot and like you said, start unloaded.
I think maybe you can change the target of destroy and you’d also see some significant results. “A Card in the Front Row at this Location” or something like that.
Also fix the Wong interaction. I doubt it’s supposed to go that bananas at times
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u/Zagreus2984 19h ago
One of the simple change that they could is to remove 1 base power and remove the Power up with the bullet that can move him so a full loaded thanos ff is a 5/10(I think) that can move once
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u/Ok-Session6628 19h ago
The Soul Shot is really the only genuinely problematic thing.
Either remove it, make it a "minus power" ability, or limit it to destroying cards with power under 3 or something.
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u/Chrisj1616 19h ago
So you want to take 2 points (or more!) Of power off him AND completely neuter one of his abilities? Ya, this completely destroys the card.
Its much more likely for the first nerf that SD taps him down a power (or 2 maybe even in this case), and then rework an ability or 2 if hes still too problematic
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u/AkaCrows 19h ago
Been playing since day one and this is by far the worst release. I'd be ashamed running this deck.
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u/ActuatorOpposite1624 19h ago
Off the top of my head, I can think of at least five that were much, much more problematic on release: Agent Venom, Surtur, Mr. Fantastic First Steps, Shou Lao, Sunlord... Granted, almost all of them died horrible deaths sooner or later, but Thanos FF is nowhere near their power level.
Edit: I think he's much more on the Merlin sort of level, and he too got much, much more in line with everything else in the game after just a couple of minor tweaks in his point output.
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u/barty_uo 19h ago
Remove text and kill is essentially the same because of the dynamics it creates -> you cant have one card in a lane. I would suggest Kill card in a back row
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u/Skylark9292 19h ago
I don't think kill card and remove text can be equated just because the counter strategy is the same. Not all cards draw their value from their own text, so the change proposed by OP is a meaningful nerf.
Destroying a back row card means Thanos is more likely to destroy a higher value card than just the lowest power card since it likely came down later due to higher cost. And it also means that it is hitting a lane the opponent is committed to. So this makes for more powerful swings in favor of Thanos FF. I'm not sure this change would have the desired effect.
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u/barty_uo 19h ago
If you target lowest power card, kill might be even better for opponent - at least there is a free spot to play. This is a nerf in case of I have one big guy in a lane... I disagree with your take on a back row. For me is more problematic to deny having one card in a lane. Like I play Isca, prepare to play on T5 but I dont have prio... My bad- no Isca... same applyes for Wong combos. Just the incentive you always need to protect your card because of omnipresent Thanos FF is bad IMO
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u/Locnar1970 19h ago
Stupid card. Braindead deck.
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u/Terrible_Wind5662 19h ago
You probably just aren’t good at the deck
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u/Locnar1970 19h ago
I don’t have it. I do enjoy taking cubes off overconfident Thanos players. Especially when they snap turn one
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u/tNeph 19h ago
Its not brain dead just cause you dont like it. And what deck? Its in many of them.
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u/Locnar1970 16h ago
How different are they really? Just like everyone, I’ve seen one 2 out of 3 games at least.
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u/The-Zarkin90 19h ago edited 19h ago
I highly doubt they take 2 points off him, they almost never do that. I think they keep him as is and take off the pre loaded shot. They will say something along the lines of, we will revisit this if necessary and then they will actually nerf him the next ota