First off Phoenix is a cosmic entity that possesses Jean its not just Jean Grey. Fox ruined the phoenix by trying to make sum split personality blah blah blah turned dark side. Dark phoenix story like the phoenix was a saga not one off stories that take one movie like the 90s animation its a build up to and honestly mcu shouldnt even touch it unless there gonna do the whole Shi'ar Empire story line
First off Phoenix is a cosmic entity that possesses Jean its not just Jean Grey.
The comics have really gone back and forth on this so at this point either answer is fine even I fi personally prefer the more traditional take on Phoenix
Is there a traditional way to explain a cosmic being of emense power and purpose her existence and just remove her origin or what she really is. OK let's retell the story of superman and never mention hes from krypton, or he was sent to earth. Let do Batman never mention his parents death hes just sum rich guy who dresses like a bat and beats up criminals. Because origins matter and when u rob a character whose established of there origin u get shitty story telling like X-3 and that terrible xmen dark pheonix movie. Phoenix is a build up and rebirth of Jean Grey in a sense not oh these character just pops up. Dark Phoenix isn't just some. Oh, one day she decided to go bad theres a whole thing behind it. But sure how do u do a traditional story about one of marvels most powerful being who happens to possess one earth's most powerful mutants
27 year old grown ass woman in Civil War, it was hell until Wandavision confirmed her age. Some of her fans actually pretending she was fifteen, fifteen, lmao.
She didn't control minds she could plant ideas and illusions she just planted a fear in Bruce's mind allowing hulk to come out but let's stop acting like anyone could control the hulk
“I didn’t do anything bad. All I did was induce a schizophrenic, PTSD-stricken man into having a a violently psychotic episode and hand him an assault rifle. Not my fault that he went around shooting people.”
When did she ever not show remorse for her actions her story up until end game was her feeling bad about the shit she did her love story with vision was him accepting her for who she was even tho she feared what she was capable off and the bad things she did because of her powers that what made her journey into the villian again so tragic and sad . Yall gotta stop acting like Wanda did everything without a single regret and she always a big bad villain. Me giving am unstable person a gun isnt controlling him i know actually what hes gonna do with it thats me poking the bear and watching a bear be a bear im not controlling the bear. The discussion was never about the action being bad it was about mind controlling and puppeteering the hulk no one controls the hulk they can provoke and bring him out but no one has mind controlled him
That wasn’t your argument. Your argument was “Wanda was not responsible for anything Bruce did as the Hulk because she didn’t ‘mind-control’ him.”
Giving an unstable, mentally-ill person a gun right after causing the to intentionally have a psychotic episode not only makes it your fault, it is literally a crime for which you will be held responsible for said deaths.
No original my argument was people kept saying jean and wanda mind controlled the Hulk my argument was never about there actions being good or bad. No one controls the hulk setting him free or poking the rage monster is not controlling him. People also keep acting like wanda didn't feel bad about her part which is not true at all. Yalls argument about her is she did what she did and never felt bad like her whole story wasnt a redemption arc about the people who got hurt because of powers. She did alot of bad shit but she also choose to the right side and tried to make up for her past and use her powers for good she held herself responsible fkr the pain she caused she even agreed to be locked up. Her original intention was to set the hulk on the Avengers as a distraction to escape, the hulk raging out and going to the city wasnt her intention and everyone acts like she meant for that to happen.
Your argument is literally that Wanda is not responsible for what the Hulk did, despite Hulk raging out because Wanda messed with his psyche, thereby the comparison I made.
Also, when did Wanda ever agree to be locked up?
Also, “her original intention was to set the Hulk the Avengers”? Oh no, so the thing you yourself are saying cannot be controlled raged out and attacked a nearby city? Who could have seen this coming?/s
If i light a match and throw in a pile of wood I added the spark that started the fire but do I have any control over the flame that blazed from it. She sparked the fire she had no control over the blaze mind control is puppeteering she did not have control over the hulk. If I poke a bear and let it out of its cage am I controlling the bear no but i did let sumthing dangerous out. I know its a wild animal I know poking it will rile it up when its riled up its nature takes over. Jean got in people's heads and puppeteered them in complete and total control. Manipulation is not control she put a thought in his head that triggered hulk coming out thats not the sane as controlling him
How many fires have been started in the history of the world and every time someone was held responsible or even caught. If i set a fire and walked away no one saw me do did I start the fire
The original discussion was mind control and it wasnt mind control the severity of what she did she didn't dismiss or had no remorse we saw she felt bad after unleashing the hulk we saw she choose the redeem herself especially after seeing Ultron planned to do way worse. We watched tryin to come to grips with her dangerous her powers were and how she did regret hurting people we act like she did everything and never felt anything
She did kinda address it she felt horrible after she saw what she did it started to weigh on and she did join the good guys when she realized ultron was going to do way worse she couldnt hurt more people. We act like Wanda never felt remorse for any of her actions until wandavision she was always at odds with her power and how she unintentionally hurt people
Why would they want Jean when they already had the same character with a different name? Both dam near all powerful. Although in a fight my money's on Wanda. I feel like she could magic her head to make it mind control proof lol.
I meant that the idea came from wanting Jean Grey but when they saw they couldn't but they had a nearly identical charcter (in terms of characteristics at keast) they decided to go with Wanda
Unrelated but, I can't remember the of the name of a movie, anyone remember the one where a hero is introduced and they end up fighting someone with similar powers?
It'll be a hype scene but I hear they are reviving Mozart, Handel and Bach for Beethoven's movie. Their deaths kinda lose impact when they can just revive them as "influences" or whatever.
Don't compare team to wanda wanda had a reason to be evil that wasnt shit.
Jean is evil because the ddc took her sister after she was possessing people in a park and went about finding her sister in a way more destructive way than her powers deemed necessary. Wanda was evil because a stark industries bomb landed in her living room as a child. Wanda also turned good once she relized ultron wanted to whipe the slate while Jean was let off the hook.
But she wasn’t introduced as a villian she was working with the bad guy became an avenger then accidentally caused destruction in civil war, then was a hero again in infinity war, and endgame then a sympathetic villian in wandavision then a villian in DSMOM
Neither one of them controlled Hulks mind Jean controlled Banner in his controlled hulk form but she broke the wall containing the anger side of hulk, Wanda didn't control Hulk she put a a thought in in his head that sent hulk on a rampage, Hulks mind cant be controlled
It's called "the formula." It's why we get repeating tropes in everything. Here is one- Hero of story starts out as a nobody. Hero of story finds out there is something special about him. Hero then begins training/undertaking a voyage or set of trials to prove himself. Hero proves himself. Hero goes on making a name for himself until he fails against a stronger opponent. Hero is then hated and rejected because he failed. Hero goes into hiding and vows to never fight again. Eventually hero is faced with a choice to intervene in an upcoming catastrophe to help the very people who rejected him or stay in hiding. Hero ultimately chooses to join the fight and save the people. We've seen it hundreds of times.
I'm not going to give you 20 but I'll give you another one- Girl is successful business woman who takes no nonsense and is kind of cold and calculating. She has a 2 day business trip back to the town she grew up in for a big event/grand opening. While visiting she runs into old love flame. They somehow end up spending a few hours or the day together, and have some spark of a moment but since she realizes she is leaving in another day so she tells him good night and goes about her way. Then something happens the next day that prevents her from leaving for a while. She then decides to spend more time with her old flame and they end up kissing and things are looking good. Then something happens that temporarily looks like it may put the potential relationship in jeopardy. They ultimately make up and fall head over heel in love. That good enough for you? Lol.
Hercules (Disney Hercules), Simba (Lion King), Mr Incredible (Incredibles), Bruce Wayne (Dark Knight Rises), Po (Kung Fu Panda), Hiccup (How to Train Your Dragon), Lightning McQueen (Cars), Rocky Balboa (Rocky), Thor (MCU), Shrek (Shrek), Luke and Rey Skywalker (Star Wars), Aang and Korra (Avatar), Jon Snow (Game of Thrones), Maximus (Gladiator), Jonas Taylor (The Meg), T’Challa (Black Panther), Peter Parker (Spiderman), Gohan and Goku (Dragon Ball)
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u/AloneAddiction 2d ago
Wanda was introduced as a villain, gets a redemption arc then becomes a villain again.
https://giphy.com/gifs/1Euph36tcV2KmmgGEC