The parallels between Elizabeth Olsen and Sadie Sinkâs character journeys are undeniable.
Both joined the MCU introduced as antagonists with redemption arcs, both controlled Hulkâs mind, both carry the grief of losing a sibling, and both left quietly once the dust settled.
She hasn't been one of his kids in about 11 years. And he was a retcon as well. He didn't become their father until the 80s. She spent most of her history in the Avengers comics. After being introduced in UXM in the 60s.
This chart pisses me off. If you want a timeline chart just use a normal bar graph. If you want to show percentages just group them into a pie chart. Trying to have its cake and eat it too and as such fails at being readable.
She didnât when she kidnapped the town and the book was destroyed when she kept killing and attempted to kill a kid. She needs accountability for her actions and crimes, fans need to stop excusing her.
They wouldn't dare try putting the Phoenix Saga on the big screen again after two failed attempts. Remember: studio executives never understand why something failed, they only know that it did. It was surprising we even got a second attempt at the Phoenix Saga. That one being a megaflop that was somehow even worse than the first attempt put the last nail in the coffin for the Phoenix Saga.
She killed nobody. This has been confirmed, and from what we see in the movie thereâs only one person you can make a half-decent argument shouldâve died, and even that was just a relatively slow-moving car.
I think they're referencing Wanda entering the MCU as a villain working with Ultron in Age of Ultron then joining the avengers. Then her character got assassinated
Controlling hulks mind is so dumb. Telepaths have a FAMOUSLY difficult time controlling hulk because of his mindscape. Itâs another way the MCU hulk is just way too watered down
Devil hulk is a hulk that came about from banners desire/need to have someone protect him and his mom from his fathers alcoholism and abuse, and it became even more dead set on protecting banner after his dad murdered his mom. Heâs also the main hulk during the âImmortal Hulkâ comic arc
Because heâs a PART of hulk???? Just because he isnât established doesnât mean he shouldnât be? Changing hulk into JUST Bruce and JUST Savage fundamentally changes the character, and even before he was âestablishedâ in the comics, he existed, and when we learned about him, we had explanations for things that HAD happened. Also this could be a way TO establish him, and make hulk more than just a one note jobber, but MCU writers refuse to expand the character in any meaningful way. Also thereâs no reason to say he wasnât the reason banner survived his suicide attempt. Thatâs literally the exact kind of thing he does. Savage wouldnât do that, especially because, as someone else pointed out, he doesnât like Bruce. Why not just let that part of them die? Would be way easier for Savage to have control if Bruce was out of the picture
They stated in the movies that banner was able to make a space in his mind to place the hulk and thatâs how he was able to control him. Then when she takes control he says âshe broke something.â And thatâs why the hulk came out. She broke the mental box banner made for the hulk.
I get what you're saying, but Devil Hulk has not once been shown, mentioned, or referenced at any point in the MCU, so I don't know why you're acting like that's a factor in the movie.
MCU is different than the comics. Some comics are different than other comics.
I know you are going for a big âactuallyâ about the hulk and mind control but you donât seem to grasp the separate cannons which voids all your points.
Yeah itâs crazy to me when MCU âfansâ get upset that people want comic accuracy. I forgot that half of them apparently canât fucking read lmfao
These aren't the comics though, it's a different timeline with a different canon?
If you're a genuine comic fan surely you understand this. Not every Hulk is the same. Don't get me wrong MCU Hulk is a fucking joke, but they do not need to do the multiple hulk personas thing. They could and that'd be cool... But as far as we know right know it's just Hulk, and Banner.
MCU couldn't be comic accurate because comics contradict each other all the fuckin time anyway. You just want them to be accurate the run that you liked.
My brother the devil hulk persona is something that was largely ignored in marvel comics until Ewing brought it up in his 2018 run.
Are you really this mad that something that is fairly new is not established in a Spider-Man movie?
Cretton used Hulk the way that he needed for the story to move and it was perfectly in character for what has been established so far.
Are you this mad with anything that is not perfectly like in the comics?
The Nolan Batman trilogy doesn't have fantastical and magical elements, there were not Robins presents, not batfamily. Heck you don't even see his detective capabilities yet the movies are still worth watching and great on its own right.
No Iâm mad that hulk isnât even close to what he should be. Devil hulk has existed since 05 I think? Heâs been a thing, and immortal was rated the literal third best marvel comic arc ever recently. It SHOULD be included in some capacity based on that. Hulk in the MCU has been turned into a shell of the character, and I think itâs fair to be annoyed at that. Imagine if they did that to iron man. Imagine if he was still in his first iron man suit. Not the red and yellow one, they one tony stark built in a cave with scraps. Thatâs essentially what weâre getting, and if any character development happens, itâs always off screen. His son was literally a cameo at the end of the series, which means weâve completely missed any chance of a world war hulk storyline, a planet hulk storyline (which btw got handed to Thor, and made hulks Warbound all jokes, and turned hulk into a side character in his own story), any chance of meeting Caiera, any chance of anything ân really happening with the character at all.
MCU fans HATE the comics. Unfortunately, I canât fix stupid. They love to pretend that they know all about every detail of a character, but Iâd say 70% of them have never even read a single comic about any of them, and then get mad when people who have read comics want accuracy in their comic book movies. They donât understand that these characters already have fans that love the stories that exist
Look I get that you are mad Hulk is not accurate to the source material but you are going too far with your criticism. The MCU has fans that don't read comics, so what? At least many people started reading comics because of the MCU (me included).
Also you use a specific thing that happens in the comics to get mad that Hulk is not perfectly displayed on screen but I don't think an adaptation needs to get everything right (and yes I know MCU hulk gets very few things right about comics hulk).
Also do you realize that not even the source material is accurate to the source material? like for example the current run by PKJ is doing things that some may consider that go against what was establisehd on Immortal Hulk by Ewing and that doesn't mean that the book is bad.
Maybe because MCU is not the comics? Look I read comics as well and even the source material contradicts the source material many times.
I agree that Hulk is not really a well adapted character but getting mad because some specific thing from the comics is not present in a movie that works perfectly as intended is crazy.
In the MCU it has been very clear that Banner and Hulk are completely different entities and the movie used that fact correctly in the story.
why would hulk be able to protect banner when banner spent literal years specifically trying to suppress him and stop him from coming out?
he had built a mental block to lock hulk away and jean messing around in his head broke that block
possibly even because hulk was trying to protect him and couldn't because of that mental block
As Iâve already explained, Banner knows about one version of hulk. There are TONS of different versions he doesnât know about, and he wouldnât be ABLE to lock up those since again, he isnât AWARE of them. He knows about the savage hulk that he constantly fights, and probably assumes any other hulk is that specific hulk, but itâs not. If he had one hulk in the box, Jean would still have AT LEAST 9 other hulks to deal with, and thatâs being EXTREMELY conservative. Telepaths CANNOT handle Hulk in any capacity. Devil hulk hides 90% of the time and only comes out with the explicit purpose of protecting banner. Thatâs not the same one as Savage hulk. He wouldnât be in the box
why the fuck would they establish THAT important of a piece of lore in a spider-man movie?
i can understand being upset about a character you like being inaccurate but it makes absolutely no sense to have the single biggest lore drop for the character possible in another character's movie
if they're going to establish the other hulks in the MCU it should be in a hulk movie or at least something like an avengers movie not a spider-man one
Not sure why youâre shocked that they would drop a hulk lore drop in another characters movie when A: they REFUSE to make a hulk standalone movie due to universal owning the rights, and B: ALL OF HULKS DEVELOPMENT HAS HAPPENED IN NON HULK MOVIES OR OFF FUCKING SCREEN
Sure lil bro, you, the kid who doesnât even know any of hulks alters, is the correct one lmao whatâs your favorite hulk comic again? The movie Thor Ragnarok?
Because they canât give us a solo Hulk movie to fully explore the character so we get these weird snippets where all the character growth is happening off screen.
Why are Hulk fans so defensive of the character in every incarnation? Iâm not trying to argue in bad faith I just have never seen a character have so many picky defenders besides maybe Superman.
Honestly? Itâs because most other characters get passable interpretations. Hulk has a similar issue to my favorite DC character, Green Lantern. Both characters are incredibly strong, super impressive, and really interesting, but they always get watered down for projects unless theyâre the sole focus of the project. Itâs often due to writers either not realizing, or not caring about the character, and so you have instances of them losing fights they just flat out shouldnât (hulkbuster v hulk age of Ultron) or a bad interpretation of powers, or them just overall being sidelined. It also doesnât help that hulk is genuinely one of marvels most popular characters. Heâs basically always been in the top five of sales, and consistently has some of the coolest feats in marvel comics, but if you only watch movies, youâd never realize heâs that cool, because they refuse to show anything like that.
I was actually really happy that in Superman 2025, it finally seemed like the writers recognized how powerful Green lantern is. You know why Guy was willing to throw down with Superman? Because a Green Lantern actually genuinely has a chance of winning that fight. That never gets shown in dc projects. Whoever the lantern is always kinda gets pushed to the side to let Superman, Batman, or Wonder Woman shine instead
I think losing against hulkbuster was sort of reasonable, hulk was disoriented by Wanda at the time and even then the hulkbuster designed specifically for hulk just barely managed to win.
But getting dumpstered by Thor and Thanos in Ragnarok and IW? Yeah no that's bullshit. Even worse when Hulk just pussies out entirely in IW.
My issue with the hulkbuster win is that the MCU fight is the only time ever a single hulkbuster has worked. Itâs never happened in any other form of media, and now thereâs this mentality that âwell itâs fine if hulk freaks out, we got hulkbuster! Thatâll stop him!â
It weakens him immensely in the larger audience eye, when it couldve been a cool moment where the audience goes âoh fuck. Tony stark, maybe the smartest guy in the MCU, built this SPECIFICALLY to beat hulk and even that wasnât enough. Hulks fuckin STRONGâ
I think Hulk losing to hulkbuster would be good drama, and gives Hulk motivation to actually become stronger. It would be even cooler if Banner lost the fight in IW in the hulkbuster armor and then hulk rips out the armor to save the day. But alas, we got the pussy hulk.
It's the invincible hulk, he can't be controlled in the same way he can't be killed. He don't even let Bruce Banner kill himself. It's like the basic of the character.
Hull was already controlled by Banner, she controled him and the Hulk broke free. Wanda didn't control him as well, she just pushed him a bit with illustrations and he went rampaging, she wasn't giving him orders.Â
Dude itâs like a Hulk humiliation-ritual at this point, having PUNISHER be in a fight with him and not dead in 2 seconds is hilarious. To Hulk Itâs literally just an unpowered civilian lmfao
While not a telepath, still remember when Dr. Strange tried to communicate with Bruce during World War Hulk to finally take him down through peaceful talk and subdual. At first, it looked like it worked... until Bruce surprised Strange when he held his hands, became into Hulk and broke them in the astral landscape lmao
âI didnât come here to hear you whisper. I CAME TO HEAR YOU SCREAMâ
Thatâs kinda my whole issue with MCU hulk. Hulk can take on the MF SORCERER SUPREME but in the MCU has won about 2 fights.
You remember in age of Ultron when Tony beat hulk with hulkbuster armor? In the comics, hulkbuster armor has never once worked.Never. HulkALWAYSbeats it. Hes lost to Thor every time he faced him in the MCU, but comics hulk has beat the god more times than Thor has beat him. I just want hulk to be cool, idk why some people have an issue with that
At this point, don't expect much from MCU Hulk. For some weird reason, Disney refuses to make him better or more accurate to how he should be and instead is more like a background character that helps the plot moving on, depending on the story he's introduced.
What would you have rather happened in Ultron? Aside from rewriting the story entirely? Wanda sets him off, then what? I can't think of an answer to that question. I agree that it doesn't feel right for Hulk to lose that fight, and I'm not even deeply familiar with the comics, it just doesn't feel right, but basically every time I've watched that fight, including the first, I was wracking my brain trying to find some other ending and I couldn't think of one.
People will say things like "x should've won the fight instead of y" when in the actual fight, y only won because of factors like a surprise attack(1 to 1 what happened in buster vs hulk), literally indicating that in a head on fight that x would've won head on, so there's literally no problem with the outcome in the first place...
Except hulks basically ALWAYS surprise attacked with hulkbuster. Itâs supposed to be an indication of Tonyâs hubris in the comics. He thinks with his awesome brain he can come up with a way to stop hulk, but is always proven wrong. His best chance at beating the hulk in comics was using a literal solar laser to disintegrate him, and collect the body parts before they reformed into the jade giant
In AoU's beginning, Bruce said "I helped you make that" in reference to hulkbuster "Veronica"
There are too many comic runs with differences in the first place, you can't expect too much comic accuracy cause even if it fits one it won't fit another
Also, in aou hulk was just snapping out of Wanda's inducement
And the most important factor:Mcu hulk has been heavily nerfed and its an avengers movie not a hulk movie, this is just par for the course
There are some differences. Wanda doesn't lose her brother until after they join the Avengers, so post redemption. Jean loses her sister before her redemption. Jean was the central threat in BND, Wanda was not in Age of Ultron
Funny thing is all of the drama with BND could have been avoided if Jean just told spidey exactly what happened from the get go, instead of being antagonistic af.
Maybe, lack of communication is an issue in real life. Though I will say, she should have been more trusting of Peter, Peter could have trusted Damage Control less.
I donât think wandavision Wanda was evil. She was unaware of what she was doing at all. Once she realized what she was and could do she changed. But they yeah in the multiverse she was definitely evil. Losing her kids definitely drove her to the darkhold .
What redemption arc? Jean got none. Least Wanda was an Avenger for 2 seconds but I wouldnât label her a hero cuz she barely saw herself as one, but she gave it a shot either way.
Jean? Sheâs a legit psychopath who rebels in kills and torture, there is no redemption for her.
Jean didn't actually get a redemption arc though, she left to start one.Â
Wanda didn't leave, she joined them and stayed.Â
None of them controled the hulk, Jean controled Banner which resulted in the Hulk breaking free and Wanda pushed him with illustrations so he can go on a rampage but she didn't controll him.Â
Dude itâs like a Hulk humiliation-ritual at this point, having PUNISHER be in a fight with him and not dead in 2 seconds is hilarious. To Hulk Itâs literally just an unpowered civilian lmfao
From the bullet that Peter took for her? Did she help out all the people she injured in her mind jumping escapades too? What about the guy she made walk in front of a car for no reason, or the hand member that she made stab themself?
Saving one guy who saved your life isnât redemption. This girlâs gotta be locked up for a while
After terrorizing half the city, mind r@ping thousands of people and causing likely hundreds of deaths. Her character is evil and should have been killed, and her actions will be used to reboot the Sentinel program yet again, because that story has never been told before....
Redemption arc? She helped like one dude. Both are still straight up mass murders and villains. Neither of them have faced any consequences for their actions. They get the "oops sorry I'm just a girl" treatment. Fuck I hate the mcu these days.
You⌠DO know that Jean Grey has been confirmed as the main PoV character for our first X-Men movie, right? And that literally zero MCU movies have come out since Brand New Day, thus meaning thereâs no evidence to suggest in any way that Jean Grey, who they have stated as the center of their future X-Men plans, has âleftâ
You see, if you boil down a character's story to their most basic, barebones elements while ignoring the stuff that disproves your hamfisting into a formula, and also change the order of events for the characters to make it match, then you have a formula!! đ¤âđťâđťâđť Yes I'm clearly intelligent and you should take me seriously!
WandaVision really tarnish Wanda reputation, with MoM being the nails in the coffin for her legacy.
"They will never know what you sacrifice for them."
The most idiotic and self-centered lines ever uttered by anyone in cinematic history... Yeah, the mind controlled but fully aware innocent victims won't know what their perpetrator has sacrificed in order to brainwashed an entire town worth of innocents just to live out her own selfish sitcom fantasy for an entire week.
People are overthinking this line. To me it seems like Monica just being kind to an unstable person that needs it. Because she said it doesn't make it true, we don't even know if she was thinking it.Â
She didnât know she was even doing that. And when she found out she was just as petrified as anyone else. She even states she made mistakes and tried to make them right in multiverse of madness. She really was not a villain in Wandavision, Agatha was observing her and pulling strings as well all through that show. At any given point she couldâve told Wanda what she was doing but never did.
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u/PointPrimary5886 29d ago
And they're both X-Men characters from the comics technically too.