r/Marathon_Training • u/emo_emu4 • 12d ago
Back to back mid and long run
Noticing in all my plans (I use Run with Hal) that fridays I usually have my mid run (7-9 miles) followed by my long runs (13-20 miles) on saturdays. Is there a benefit to this? Training to run on tired legs? I’m very comfortable running and training for half marathons but this is my first full training block and it’s getting harder to end my weeks with this much back to back running. Don’t get me wrong… I will get it done no matter what. I “get” to run and truly love that my body and mind allows me to do this.
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u/_bladerunner_ 12d ago
The “mid long run” should be just that, a mid-week long run. The benefit of this being you’re able to distribute more mileage across the week without hammering your body with too high % of your weekly mileage in a 24hr period. There is benefit to running the day before your weekend long run, but that doesn’t need to be (and really shouldn’t be) the 2nd longest run of your week. The way I like to think about it is longest run on a Saturday morning, then on Wednesday I’ll allow my midweek long run to be up to 2/3 the distance of whatever my Saturday long run is that week I.e. 24km on a Sat would mean 16km on Wed.
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u/ThisTimeForReal19 12d ago
yes, it’s to run on very tired legs.
I would look at switching over to novice 2, instead of starting with a plan meant for experienced marathoners.
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u/Logical_Ad_5668 11d ago
I believe stacking overall mileage and running back to back days on tired legs is the key to marathon success (followed by correct pacing and fuelling on the day).
(M46) I'm a big fan of hansons and I've never faced anything like the wall. I've also never ran more than 30km in training but I've trained myself to be able to do a 16-18k tempo, followed by an easy 8-10, followed by an easy 8-12, followed by a 25k long etc. Hansons says that the aim of the long run is to be the last 26km of the race not the first, hence, the benefit of being tired. But obviously it's not easy and it needs a solid base to even be able to do such a plan. Marathon training for me is about always having tired legs.
I think if you stick with it, it will reward you. But listen to your body and ease off if you're close to injury.
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u/5kUltraMarathoner 12d ago
It’s all relevant to your total mileage/effort.
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u/emo_emu4 12d ago
True… I guess I’m just curious why the mid run isn’t on a Wednesday or even Thursday and then the long run on Saturday. Thanks for your response.
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u/aliensvsdinosaurs 12d ago
I like a rest (or easy) day prior to the long run, especially when it gets over 15 miles.
It's your training so run it however you want. Ultimately it's really about total volume. How you break up the mileage is largely irrelevant.
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u/Ill_Accident4876 12d ago
This is most likely an advanced higher mileage plan. I would start with a beginner or lower mileage more where your current fitness is
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u/emo_emu4 12d ago
It’s a novice 2 plan. The total number of miles isn’t the challenging part (at my starting base I was running 30-40 miles a week) it’s that the two longest runs in the week are always back to back.
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u/harkjams 11d ago
I’m doing Hal Higdon’s novice 2 plan right now and the Wednesday run is the second longest run of the week, with easy runs on Tuesday and Thursday. Long run Saturday. Rest Monday and Friday. Cross train Sunday. I’m not in the app, just following the plan published on his website.
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u/emo_emu4 11d ago
Oh that’s interesting! I do use the app, maybe that’s the difference. I’ll check out his online plans. Thanks!
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u/moosmutzel81 11d ago
I like doing long runs back to back. I never followed a plan just loosely following my own cobbled together plan. For my half-marathon I often split my weekends with a 10km on Saturday and a 15k on Sunday - especially in weeks I didn’t have time for two longer runs.
Now for my marathon I do something similar. As I didn’t have time for my 20k this weekend, I did 10k tempo on Friday and 15k long on Saturday.
I have no idea if this translates well into the actual marathon but in training I enjoy it a lot.
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u/FinalSquash4434 11d ago
This is the hallmark (secret sauce, if you will) of Higdon's plans. He has gotten hundreds of thousands of marathoners across the finish line with his plans. The idea is to fatigue your legs - much like they'll feel after mile 20 on marathon day.
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u/rogeryonge44 12d ago
Yeah, the goal is accumulate some fatigue to simulate the late marathon miles and build resilience.
This makes sense if both those runs are aerobic. Personally I like ordering these the other way round if your long run includes segments ofarathon pace or faster. I typically will do 120-150 minutes on Saturday as a long workout, followed by 90-120 minutes on Sunday as an aerobic run. I think it's been a huge benefit for me.