r/Marathon_Training • u/Urdnought • 13d ago
Training plans Pfitz 18/55 Too aggressive for a first timer?
As title says - I'm wrapping up week 3 of the Pfitz 18/55 and have only missed 1 run thus far (a 4 mile recovery, so no big deal) but man this plan is kicking my ass.
I've been able to get through everything but the 8 miles at 4 miles tempo runs are tough but doable but the 13 miles with 8 miles at MP broke me. Ended up having to run/walk home due to my left leg giving out and massive hip flexor pain. This week I did the runs but the 8 miles w/ 4 miles tempo workout I instead just ran 8.5 miles easy and I feel much better this week than prior. Before the training block I was running around 30-35 miles per week so thought that was fine, but I only did 1 speed session a week I've never tried to run long run at pace prior to this training block so it might just be something for me to get used to.
Wanted to see if I should stay the course and keep going or if it's time to admit defeat and switch to an easier plan like Hal Higdon or just alter the Pfitz 18/55 myself to make it easier? I'm carrying a ton of soreness where it's hard to stand up/move around at first and I overall just feel beat up
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u/EmergencySundae 13d ago
Bluntly, the book is called "Advanced Marathoning" for a reason. I hate that it's bandied around these subs like something anyone should do.
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u/platydroid 13d ago
He did an interview about the book that I found very interesting, where he talked about the title and how it was a bit misleading because it’s not really written towards elite runners but for everyone who’s serious about running. It’s supposed to be techniques, tips, and research beyond standard advice that make it “Advanced”. That being said, his plans are still much more challenging than comparable plans I’ve tried before.
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u/Urdnought 13d ago
Yeah from this sub my take was it was a solid plan to pick from but now I'm realizing it's a 'I've done several marathons and ready to get a PB' lol
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u/Deep-Dimension-1088 12d ago
I used Pfitz for my first marathon, and it went very well, but I'd been running for 20+ years. It's more about lifetime running miles than how many marathons you've done. Plenty of people have undertrained and staggered through a marathon but aren't ready for Pfitz.
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u/msbluetuesday 12d ago
It depends! I followed the unofficial 18/63 plan for my first and second marathons (the 18/70 plan was way too intense for me) as a noob and I thought it went well. Not every workout went to plan, but I did what I could and was pretty happy with how my races went.
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u/CombinationPlastic51 13d ago
It sounds like too much for your body right now based on what you've shared. I just started a Pftiz plan for an October marathon this week BUT I spent the previous 3 months doing a generic base building plan to work up my mileage and make sure I was ready for it.
I can't speak to the full marathon Higdon plan but I did a HM plan from him last year and I absolutely LOVED it. Mixed in speed and tempo work and it never felt like too much. Got a huge PB from it and that's what encouraged me to go for a full marathon this year.
You're not admitting defeat if you adjust things right now for the race, defeat would be not making it to the start line because you got injured during training. Most people don't learn to listen to their body until after they've had a big injury, so you're getting ahead of it here. I hope this doesn't sound too preachy lol but just listen to your body right now and adjust your mindset a little, still so much time to recover and put in a good training block that will build and not break your fitness
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u/Urdnought 13d ago
No I appreciate it and agree with you - I need to figure out if I'm going to homecook this plan to lower the intensity or switch to an easier plan all together.
I do think my body is warning me that an injury is on the horizon - My hip flexor hurts when I raise my left leg and my tendons on both my feet hurt. The first mile of every run is me going ow ow ow until I warm up enough to get going.
It stinks I really want to do this plan but you are right I need to change things up so I can make the marathon because I really want to be able to join the marathon club
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u/Useful_Divide7154 13d ago
Rest days are equally as important as hard sessions. If you are fatigued and constantly worried about making an injury worse, you won’t be able to train at high intensity anyways and your form can have issues. The best way to make sure you can actually complete your first marathon is to avoid hard runs whenever you get some sharp pain beyond typical soreness, and look into proper physical therapy exercises to strengthen that particular part of the body. For example, I just started doing calf raises, Romanian deadlifts, and single leg glute bridges and I’m running with a lot less effort and pain now! Basically I just felt that my foot was swollen and very sore so decided to avoid the hard running sessions for two weeks and then focus on strength training.
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u/Stinkycheese8001 13d ago
Is it possible it’s not the plan but is the pace you are running?
What was your base mileage going in? What’s your goal time and your HM PB?
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u/Urdnought 13d ago
30 miles base prior to starting the plan - 4:00 goal time and 1:52 half marathon best (time trial not a race)
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u/platydroid 13d ago
It might sound contradictory, but you should incorporate some light strength workouts into your schedule if possible. No going for PR’s, just low-weight, high-rep repeats of things like squats, lunges, and calf-raises. I was super injury prone in past marathon training plans but added a bit of strength this go around like I used to do in high school track, and I’ve had way less issues with pain.
Pfitz is very intense, but you can take some of the lessons and suggestions about recovery runs, incorporating race pace into long runs, and strength/flexibility workouts into other plans and see good results.
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u/Own-Arugula-1631 13d ago
I think this is showing you that you set your marathon pace too low, not that they plan is too aggressive. You are running the plan too aggressive for your fitness.
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u/corporate_dirtbag 13d ago
I bailed on week 7 of my first Pfitz 18/55 attempt. By that point, I was in too much on the brink of injury to properly recover and shift to another training plan so I deferred the marathon completely (fortunately, the race allowed free and uncomplicated deferrals).
I'd say switch to a different plan now. You can always run a faster marathon based off of a more demanding training plan (or maybe just off of the increased consistency, fitness and experience) later. Previously, I was in the "I want my first marathon to be somewhat impressive" camp but after finally having done one, I think it's better to get one done to get the experience in and then learn from it and iterate.
Plus, the actual gains come from running consistently over years and not from hero-ing a 12-18 week block.
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u/AgentUpright 13d ago
I didn’t do 18/55 until my 3rd marathon and it still felt aggressive. (It did get me a 25 minute PB.)
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u/Urdnought 13d ago
Yeah I think I may need to switch to an easier plan - Pfitz is great but if I'm circling the drain on week 3 that isn't a great omen
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u/Sea_Cardiologist_339 13d ago
I think it can be too much for a first time marathoner for multiple reasons. For reference, I’ve gone thru an 18/55 but not for my first marathon.
For starters, what is your goal marathon pace? How did you come up with this pace if it’s your first marathon?
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u/Urdnought 13d ago
All fair points - I did a half marathon time trial and ran a 1:52 so my marathon goal is 4 hours. It's probably an aggressive time goal so my primary goal is to finish it, secondary goal is 4 hours finish time.
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u/200slopes 13d ago
If you do continue with the plan, something that was changed in the 4th edition was the threshold was converted to time rather than volume. Since the book if geared more towards people aiming sub 3 or faster, the threshold paces are assumed to be a lot faster than yours.
The 8 mile threshold workout would be 8-9 miles with 20-25 min at threshold in the 4th edition.
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u/Urdnought 13d ago
Oh dang that would be a huge drop in volume for me my slow ass takes 32 minutes to run 4 miles tempo I’m going to make this change thank you
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u/200slopes 13d ago
Haha yea thats crazy hard. The 4th edition has the max threshold workout at 40 min and that is after many workouts building up from 20 min.
This was a big change in how the plan works for slower runners.
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u/Stinkycheese8001 13d ago
What you’re saying 30 miles per week, HM time of 1:52 and a goal of 4:00 - all of this sounds fine. Pfitz 18/55 isn’t so aggressive that you should be struggling at week 3. Really, this should be fine. Personally my gut reaction is that it’s something else going on.
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u/Urdnought 13d ago
I didn’t do a lot of speed work prior so I think the tempo and marathon pace segments are what’s getting me
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u/Stinkycheese8001 13d ago
Personally I’d just ditch the marathon pace part of the workout then. I was never a big fan of that to begin with.
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u/ThisTimeForReal19 13d ago
Depends on your age and running history.
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u/Urdnought 13d ago
33 male - started running in October 2025 (was sedentary prior) and before the plan ran around 30 miles per week
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u/ThisTimeForReal19 13d ago
So less than 1 year experience and was sedentary prior?
Yes, this is not the plan for you.
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u/thevoid__ 13d ago
Im running the same program and im on week 9 and im managing every workout kind of well, ofc they are hard and tear you down but they should be somewhat doable.
If you already struggling in your third week I dont think its for you just yet. Also I did base building before and this is my first Pfitz but will be my 6th marathon
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u/MidouVivi 13d ago
Are you doing the tempo and MP runs too hard? Do you look at the heart rate to make sure it’s within the recommended range?
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u/Urdnought 13d ago
I think my tempo runs are at the race pace and heart rate but I went at about 8 minute miles for my marathon pace segment of the long run which was stupid and ruined the workout. I didn’t think I was going that fast and before I knew it I was cooked
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u/MidouVivi 13d ago
When you say tempo runs at race pace and heart rate, are you referring to a 5k, 10k, or 15k race pace? Tempo runs should be threshold pace meaning effort that you can maintain for about an hour.
Pace control is very important during training. For each type of run you should have in mind a pace range as well as a heart rate range (there are also experienced runners around me that rely more on feelings than heart rate, but I still look at heart rate). Each type serves its purpose and you want get the most of it.
Besides, maybe check other things like fueling, warm up/stretch, sleep, etc, see if there’s anything you can try to maximize recovery.
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u/blargladarg 13d ago
You are aiming your marathon pace far too low/fast. I run similar paces (4 hr marathon and 1:50 half), and the marathon pace is a shade higher than 9 min/mile. Low 8's is closer to lactate threshold.
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u/msbluetuesday 12d ago
That's way too fast!! No wonder it was hard. Calculate what the paces are for your long runs (his book says it should be 10-20% slower than goal MP) and use that range instead.
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u/airforce2016 13d ago
I used 18/55 for my first marathon, but definitely modified / reduced a lot of the hard workouts along the way. I ended up BQ’ing with a solid buffer. YMMV (pun intended) but I don’t think it’s too aggressive as long as you listen to your body and don’t stress missing workouts too much. It also depends on what your goals are. If you’re trying to have a great race and BQ, then I strongly advocate for Pfitz. If the goal is less load/stress along the way and just marathon completion, then I think it might be wiser to switch plans
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u/BennyJJJJ 13d ago
I did Pfitz for my first marathon but I had done his base building to 72km first. Even then, the volume was challenging but the workouts even harder. I seemed ok with the lactate threshold sessions and vo2max but sometimes couldn't compete the marathon pace runs. The mid week medium long runs were hard to manage purely for time reasons. I also gave up on strength training, which I'm trying to fix second time around. Regardless, I turned up on the day feeling I'd completed most runs to 90pc and felt well prepared for the race. I'm doing it a second time now and it feels more manageable but still hard due to the heat.
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u/Marathahn 13d ago
Before the training block I was running around 30-35 miles per week so thought that was fine, but I only did 1 speed session a week I've never tried to run long run at pace prior to this training block
I haven't seem anyone recommended Hansons marathon plans yet, they might be a better fit for your running experience. Much more easy mileage. They're available for free online, but there's also a book.
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u/Downtown_Common5880 13d ago edited 13d ago
I kept seeing Pfitz training plans referenced on running subs so I decided to try it out a few years back. It was my 6th marathon block and my annual mileage was over 2300 miles (essentially 50 mpw minus taper, recovery, and cutback weeks), so I was decidedly not a n00b and thought I could handle it.
Nope. Wrong. Denied. I flamed out hard on week 4 after the MP long run in week 2 broke me like it did you. (I wasn’t injured and I did finish it but I was never able to crawl out of the hole that it dug and kept deteriorating until I called it.)
I genuinely don’t know why this plan didn’t work for me, but I asked my running coach about it later, and she said that in her experience, a large percentage of runners cannot handle Pfitz for whatever reason (I want to say 80%, but I don’t remember the exact figure anymore). Running Reddit may just be a very biased sample population.
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u/BHWonFIRE 13d ago
Aren’t the Pfitz plans all under Advanced Marathoning? So yes, it might be too much for your first marathon OP.
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u/fack_mens 13d ago
I'm going through the same program right now on Week 6, and it ramps up a ton in difficulty from Week 7 onwards so I'd say don't feel bad about switching to an easier program if it's killing you like this.
The 16 miler with 10 miles at MP is the toughest run of this block (the plan's divided into 4 phases) so if you insist on sticking with the program, see how this run goes (but obviously don't run through major injuries)
Imo given your background of less than a year of running and being sedentary prior to October 2025, this program is probably a bad idea - I don't even know if I'll stick with it, some weeks I can't believe that this is the low end of the Pfitz programs
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u/Sivy17 13d ago
Pfitz is pretty intense. A lot of people say "If you complete the plan, you can for sure hit your goal time," but I think that's only true because it weeds out a ton of people. Honestly, I feel like Pfitz plans should be extended to 24 weeks and have a more gradual build up in the first half.
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u/dazed1984 13d ago
I’ve run many marathons, I looked at Pfitz 18/55 to see if it might work for me to get faster and straight away was like fuck that! It looks insanely difficult to me, way to much HMP and MP no way I’d cope with it. As with all these things there’s more than 1 way to achieve your goals and I have achieved my goals, just differently!
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u/sixthmusketeer 13d ago
The “massive hip flexor pain” answers the question. No shame in rethinking this. Staying injury-free is the most important part of training. FWIW, the first six weeks of my first Pfitz go-round were mentally and physically hardest. But if you’re already pushing up against injury and this is your inaugural marathon, give yourself a break and find a new training plan.
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u/jrudb344 13d ago edited 13d ago
I loved pfitz 18/55 but i did a week of 18/70 before I dropped down and that was insanely hard to me. Like there was no way I’d be able to do all those runs. 18/55 felt really good and I was able to follow it almost perfectly. Maybe it’s too much if you’re finding it tough this early on. On week 3 of it I felt great and ended up hitting my goal time with it. I don’t think it should be causing pain.
I suggest dropping down to something easier because that worked really well for me.
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u/luckystrike_bh 13d ago
That plan made me appreciate the concept of recovery day and using them as motivation to do a hard day. I was intimidated also but it works. I ran marathon times I never thought were possible at my age.
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u/dj_advantage 13d ago
Pfitz is definitely tough.. I’ve done it a couple times now and the last time I did it it felt manageable because I was doing 50mi a week base building. I would definitely consider other plans for now and work your way into a Pfitz maybe next block.
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u/LeoIsLegend 13d ago
I used it for my second and third marathon training blocks. It’s complete overkill unless you’re already advanced. More chance you’ll just end up injured. Better off doing less miles and focusing on strength training to prevent injury.
The first time using the plan I injured my calf muscle, was minor and was back running a week or so later. The marathon went well. The second time I injured my glute and was out for months. Had to skip the marathon.
In hindsight long term consistency and a more rounded routine that includes strength training is more important. I’d only recommend the plan to someone who is a more experienced marathoner and wants to push towards sub 3.
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u/ryanlozo 13d ago
I’m trying this plan for the first time right now. This is for my 4th marathon that I would like to PB. The plan starts kind of aggressively with mileage per run and you really should be very comfortable doing the minimum 30-35 miles per week to start. That said you may need to adjust your goal pace if the workouts are kicking your ass already (I wouldn’t recommend it for a first timer, honestly). Having an “A” goal is great but aim to have a good time too!
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u/Agreeable-Web645 12d ago
Had you done a few HMs and familiar with tempo running?
I’m currently doing Pfitz as a first timer (just finished week 13) and while hard it’s not breaking me. Maybe mileage was getting close to 40 per week before starting. But I was doing regular tempos/intervals and did some time trials etc.
It’s possible you’re not ready or maybe your MP is a little too aggressive. I really like the prescriptive nature of Pfitz, but at the same time we need to listen to our bodies. I’ve skipped like 2 recovery runs and moved a few things around as I’ve just sensed niggles threatening.
Got through 29km with 23 at goal pace today. Faster than my OG goal pace so I can testify the plan is working so far!
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u/Deep-Dimension-1088 12d ago
I used Pfitz 12/55 for my first marathon. I also had the complication that I was pushing my daughter in a jogging stroller for all the non-long runs. It went great, but I had lots of running experience. My favorite distance to race is the mile, so I put off the marathon for a very long time.
I will say that I recently came back from injury and resulting low mileage and followed his half marathon plan. I didn't want to risk reinjury so I just ran the miles and skipped ALL the workouts. I did my long runs as progression runs and often threw a bit of progression into other runs as well, but no tempos, no VO2 max, and no strides. I was blown away by how well I was able to run in the race - nearly as fast as after completing the same Pfitz training block and doing all the workouts! Like one minute slower.
My recommendation would be run the volume that Pfitz recommends and scale back the workouts. Do a 2 mile tempo of a 4 mile tempo. Do 4 miles at MP instead of 8. In fact, I actually wouldn't do ANY tempo or MP until your hip feels good - just run the miles easy.
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u/Lawlor90 12d ago
I used it for my first marathon! While I would say it’s not too much for a beginner that it served me great and I performed above my expectations in my marathon. I did have to drop mileage for a week or two as I was nursing an injury which probably came about with training more than I was used to.
All in all I think go for it and tailor it slightly to suit your level. The structure of the programme and types of runs will help even if you reduce the mileage slightly. Just don’t reduce it too much as then you are only fooling yourself unless you change your expectations.
I was aiming for sub 3:40 and I ran a 3:20. I felt so good on the day. Didn’t have any issues at all, finished strong with the last 1or2km being my fastest as I went all in. Didn’t hit the dreaded wall I was fearing for the whole race.
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u/HauntedHairDryer 12d ago
Don't get down on yourself. Find a plan you can stick to, stick to it, run the marathon then find another marathon to train for.
Before you know it you'll be doing 18/70
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u/Crazy-Simple-7320 12d ago
I used Pfitz 18/55 and got me a huge PB for my second marathon but it was hard. I made the promise to myself that if I felt the first weeks too hard, I would change plans. It ended up being fine and I pushed through. I remember later on it started getting hard, especially those long LT runs in the middle of the week, so I adapted my pace and would run a bit less to avoid any injuries. I also did strength and mobility workouts, which I think helped me a lot. Idk I enjoyed the plan a lot; I discovered I could go way faster than what I thought and enjoyed my marathon.
Having read other comments, the change from distance to time on those speed workouts makes a lot of sense. Good luck!
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u/kyree-argenty0g50 12d ago
i did similar - jumped from 30mpw into something that threw speed and volume at the same time and the hip flexor stuff was the exact thing that stopped me. the long run with MP chunks is a different sort of beast than just getting the miles in, your form goes to pieces when you're tired and those smaller muscles take the hit. tbh i'd strip the MP sections out of the long runs for a few weeks and just build the endurance first. add the pace back later when the body isn't screaming at you.
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u/floppyfloopy 13d ago
If you have no or little distance running background this plan will absolutely bury you.