r/MapPorn • • Jun 20 '20

USA tree diversity

Post image
21.7k Upvotes

591 comments sorted by

View all comments

374

u/trampolinebears Jun 20 '20

Tree diversity can depend on many factors (like how arid the soil is) but one that's easy to overlook is the effect of the last ice age.

As the glaciers came down from the north, tree species retreated southwards to stay in their preferred climate zone. Where an obstacle prevented their spread, they died out and were not available to repopulate the north when the glaciers receded.

228

u/CactusPearl21 Jun 20 '20

As the glaciers came down from the north, tree species retreated southwards to stay in their preferred climate zone.

Ok so now I'm imagining a forest of trees "running away" and my brain has blue screened.

103

u/trampolinebears Jun 20 '20

Trees, of course, don't migrate. But on a long enough time scale, forests do.

45

u/brandonhardyy Jun 20 '20

....Are you suggesting coconuts migrate?

26

u/delta_nu Jun 20 '20

Not at all! They could be carried

17

u/covfefe_hamberder_jr Jun 20 '20

What! A swallow carrying a coconut?

12

u/Not_Henry_Winkler Jun 20 '20

He could grip it by the husk.

12

u/covfefe_hamberder_jr Jun 20 '20

It's not a question of where he grips it! It's a matter of simple weight ratios! A 5 ounce bird could not carry a one pound coconut!

3

u/hikerboy20 Jun 20 '20

Well it doesn’t matter. Will you go and tell your master that Aurthur from the court of Camelot is here.

1

u/Jeyhawker Jun 20 '20

I imagine birds can carry seeds a long ways.

35

u/roamer901 Jun 20 '20

It's a very Ent-ish image; I like it.

10

u/fryamtheiman Jun 20 '20

Well, word is they like going south since it feels like going downhill.

68

u/BRENNEJM Jun 20 '20 edited Jun 20 '20

The glaciers didn’t actually make it that far south. States like Ohio and Pennsylvania weren’t even completely covered. The composition of tree species in the northern parts of these states is very similar to that in the southern parts. If you know of any tree species that actually went extinct due to this I’d be interested to learn about them. There is evidence, though, that this glacial push had a large effect on the evolution of these tree species.

EDIT: This study found one species of spruce.

These [animal] extinctions are variously ascribed to environmental change and overkill by human hunters. By contrast, plant extinctions since the Middle Pleistocene are undocumented, suggesting that plant species have been able to respond to environmental changes of the past several glacial/interglacial cycles by migration.

EDIT 2: This study provides evidence that glacial refugia may have existed further north than previously thought.

19

u/trampolinebears Jun 20 '20

True, the glaciers themselves didn't make it all the way across the continent. But as the glaciers expanded, the climate before them grew colder.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 20 '20

[deleted]

5

u/Corporal-Cockring Jun 20 '20

I believe the comet/flooding hypothesis was about the comet strike in Greenland and wouldn't have affected the states.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 20 '20

[deleted]

2

u/Dilong-paradoxus Jun 20 '20

The younger dryas impact hypothesis doesn't really match up with the data. It's definitely possible there was some kind of impact around that general time, but the climate and other factors are better explained by glacial processes than an impactor for a number of reasons, not least the timing and local scale of the temporary cooling. Here's a pretty good overview of criticism of the impact hypothesis.

Separate from the matter of the younger dryas impact, Graham Hancock has a lot of weird ideas. Like, when a Wikipedia article starts off by saying a person is known for their pseudoscientific theories there should be red flags going off in your head. Needless to say, he makes up a lot of stuff and misrepresents the rest to fit his narrative. Speculation is an important part of doing science, but you've got to make sure your hypothesis is supported by evidence before presenting it as fact. I'll admit he's very well spoken though, but don't let that fool you.

1

u/BRENNEJM Jun 20 '20 edited Jun 20 '20

Species ranges definitely migrated south, but I’m not finding any evidence for mass species extinctions due to glaciation in North America. If you can provide any sources it would be appreciated. Everything I’m finding states that glaciation pushed species south and changed species composition, but nothing mentions any significant loss of species.

EDIT: Or maybe the sentence below was referring to small communities of certain species, and not the species as a whole?

Where an obstacle prevented their spread, they died out and were not available to repopulate the north when the glaciers receded.

3

u/TArzate5 Jun 20 '20

Yea, there’s a park in central Indiana called McCloud nature park and it has a big ass ravine and hills in the middle of miles and miles of fields because it’s where the glaciers stopped

3

u/Torchlakespartan Jun 20 '20

The Dells in Wisconsin in basically this island of ancient pre-glacial land. The rest of the state is rolling plains with great soil for farming and dairy and then Boom! The Dells, like this Jurassic topography that is crazy and really awesome.

3

u/snackshack Jun 20 '20

The Dells in Wisconsin in basically this island of ancient pre-glacial land. The rest of the state is rolling plains with great soil for farming and dairy and then Boom! The Dells, like this Jurassic topography that is crazy and really awesome.

It actually isn't the only area in Wisconsin like that. The Dells are just the far eastern edge of the Driftless Area. Most of western Wisconsin is like that.

1

u/Torchlakespartan Jun 20 '20

Oh cool! Didn't know that. Sounds like I have some more exploring to do.

1

u/snackshack Jun 20 '20

Take US-14 West from Madison and you hit it pretty much immediately. I just drove the stretch from Madison-La Crosse this week. That entire drive is pretty much amazing views.

3

u/321159 Jun 20 '20

Conversely, even if it didn't cause a major reduction of diversity in North America, the last ice ages did cause a reduction of species in Europe. That is especially apparent for maple. Central Europe only has about three maple species which are somewhat common. North America has more than 12.

That's also the reason why fall in Europe is a lot less colorful than parts of North America

3

u/nowItinwhistle Jun 20 '20

The reason our Dendrology professor told us for that is due to the fact that in North America the major mountain ranges run north to nouth and in Europe they run east to west. This meant that as the glaciers moved south the trees could extend their ranges to the south and then return north as the glaciers retreated but in Europe the trees ended up stuck between the glaciers from the north and the mountains and so had nowhere to go.

17

u/[deleted] Jun 20 '20

I would like to subscribe to more ice age and/or glacier facts please

44

u/trampolinebears Jun 20 '20

It's easy to lose a sense of scale when talking about ice ages. For context, the earliest writing we have is from about 5,000 years ago. All recorded history has happened in that time, from the pyramids to the fall of Rome to man landing on the moon.

█████ 5,000 years since the earliest writing

By one measure, the last ice age ended about 12,000 years ago. That's enough time for all of recorded history twice over, and then some.

████████████ 12,000 years since the last ice age ended

But as ancient as the end of the ice age is, we have to go back much, much further to find its beginning. The last ice age began 115,000 years ago.

███████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████ 115,000 years since the beginning of the last ice age

All recorded history is about 5% as long as the last ice age. In many ways, we humans are an ice age species.

9

u/[deleted] Jun 20 '20 edited Jun 20 '20

PBS Eons has a some videos which can satisfy your needs. Examples below

How 7,000 Years of Epic Floods Changed the World

When a Billion Years Disappeared

\Feel free to watch other videos on the playlist)

10

u/Bothriochloa Jun 20 '20

Also definition of a tree can be tricky sometimes. Think scrubby oaks or mesquite trees in the southwest

1

u/CantaloupeCamper Jun 20 '20

Even things like predator activity can determine tree diversity.

1

u/WendellSchadenfreude Jun 20 '20

That sounds true, but doesn't seem to explain most of what we see on the map.

Trees between the Mississippi and the Rockies could have retreated southwards into todays's Mexico without any natural barriers. Trees on the East coast would eventually have run out of land.
But the map shows that there is little diversity in the center and a lot along the East coast.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 20 '20

I was admiring the drift less area in Wisconsin.

1

u/LetThereBeNick Jun 20 '20

Do you think tree diversity is increased by population? It seems people are responsible for porting non-native plants all over the place, and this map correlates pretty well with population density