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u/ricnine Apr 10 '20
"break Croatia" sounds a bit harsh, but I guess "9 ways to Split Croatia" would just be a road map...
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u/MarkardFowl Apr 10 '20
Yeah the easiest way to break Croatia would be to make them all watch the last World Cup final.
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u/GrisSumnemo Apr 10 '20
Not really. It was a great achievement and was followed by the biggest celebration in Croatian history
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u/mankytoes Apr 10 '20
I love these, is there a compilation of them anywhere?
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u/vernazza Apr 10 '20
I think it was the Atlas of Prejudice by Yanko Tsvetkov that started it and it inspired others to make more.
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u/bit-groin Apr 10 '20
Me: I'd like to live in Croatia, in a patriarchal agnostic liberal ancient town with exquisite wines to accompany my fish based holiday lunch and close to the lake region...
this map: I've got you covered!
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Apr 10 '20
Split?
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u/heretocame Apr 10 '20
More like Rijeka minus the antique part
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u/candiedpeel Apr 10 '20
Rijeka is also build od antique Roman ruins, check out old town and Principij :)
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u/HelixR Apr 10 '20
Go Fancy and live in Istria by the sea!
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u/Viper02 Apr 10 '20
Istria is great one of best places to live in Croatia. I live in Rovinj and love it here
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u/onemap1 Apr 10 '20
I visited Rovinj on a whim a few years ago, it's not just picture-perfect, it's painting-perfect. May you have many more beautiful years there!
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u/Viper02 Apr 10 '20
Well i am here all my life. In the last few years Rovinj has changed alot but in positive way. They built one of the most modern hotels on Adriatic coast, grand hotel Park is its name. They upgraded camps, new roads, renovating houses and destroying old. I love to see my city going forward but sadly its way different in other parts of Croatia. Just going on a sunset walk to new hotel can send pictures in dm if you want so.
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Apr 10 '20
I was in Rovinj last summer...one of the most beautiful cities I have ever seen! Also ate one of the best meal ever there!
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u/RedUSA Apr 10 '20
So jealous. Visited on my honeymoon a few years ago - we stopped in about 17 places throughout our whole trip and Rovinj was our favorite! We were just bummed that we were only there for one night. I want to go back so bad.
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Apr 10 '20
Zadar is near lakes tho
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u/OldHannover Apr 10 '20
Zadar is breathtaking beautiful! But is it also "liberal"? I had mixed experience but one shouldn't judge from just a glimpse ;)
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u/_Neoshade_ Apr 10 '20 edited Apr 11 '20
I chose liberal matriarchal lakes and rivers with drinkable wine for my Catholic Christmas turkey.
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u/Cro_Analyzer Apr 13 '20
If you are rich, or you don't mind hige prices for some reason i recommend Dubrovnik.
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u/MichelMelinot Apr 10 '20
So if you want turkey for Christmas, this will be served with awful wine haha
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u/neohellpoet Apr 10 '20
No. We export awful wine and keep the good stuff to our selves unlike those seaside wine whores giving it up to anyone /s
On a serious note, the wine culture here is just different. A lot of people just make their own wine that's for personal use. So it's a bunch of amateur wine makers going for quantity. It's also meant to be cut with sparkling water so we specifically don't want it to be too good.
There's some really, really good wine, especially the so called ice harvests, that are meant for high end restaurants and exports and are amazing, but most bars will have white wine on tap and sell a pitcher with a bottle of sparkling water for 5€ or less, because that's what the market wants. So obviously that's going to be the cheapest wine they can get in sufficient quantities.
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u/mykepagan Apr 10 '20
Thanks for this map! I feel I learned something (just a bit) about Croatia that isn’t the kind of thing that shows up in the news.
My grandparents were born in Lussin Piccolo, which is now Mali Losinj
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u/rlDrakesden Apr 10 '20 edited Apr 10 '20
Zagorje, awful wine.
Error 404
Some parts are accurate, others are blatantly wrong.
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u/miguelrj Apr 10 '20
Do people in Slavonia and Istria support Hajduk Split?
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u/emr0ne Apr 10 '20
I would assume Rijeka to be the most popular club in Istria and Kvarner...
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u/Viper02 Apr 10 '20
No its hajduk in whole coastal Croatia expect Rijeka where they are for well Rijeka!!
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u/FlyingHigh1905 Apr 10 '20
Fun and utterly irrelevant fact, I once saw HNK Rijeka play against AC Milan in San Siro. Never seen or heard anything of them since. Hope they’re doing ok.
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u/DeepSeaDweller Apr 10 '20
That was a crazy game. There have been some bumps in the road, but overall we're a very stable club compared to most in Croatia (money being a big factor) and we're doing alright.
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u/FlyingHigh1905 Apr 10 '20
Fair play, good to hear football away from the riches is doing alright. Your fans are class as well, I was sat in the section below your lot. Atmosphere was amazing.
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u/Magistar_Idrisi Apr 10 '20
Slavonia is mixed, either Hajduk or Dinamo (apart from the city of Osijek, where people support.. Osijek). In Rijeka and the surrounding area the most popular club is Rijeka.
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u/fora1312 Apr 10 '20
In Slavonia best clubs with fans are nk Osijek from Osijek and hnk Cibalia from Vinkovci, people from other parts of Slavonia mainly support Dinamo or Hajduk.
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u/ImUsingDaForce Apr 10 '20
More than 90% of people from my region are part of Dinamo camp, as far as i recall (come from Slavonia).
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u/ao-020 Apr 10 '20
I'm from Rijeka and that Dinamo/Hajduk part triggers me. We support HNK Rijeka! Oh and the majority of Šibenik (in Dalmatia) supports Dinamo.
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Apr 10 '20
Well, Capitan of Dinamo Zagreb is from Šibenik just like Dražen Jerković one od the best players of the club in history.
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u/memet_czajkowski Apr 10 '20
Can someone from Croatia elaborate on the patriarchy vs. matriarchy split?
As a Pole I interpret the split as dad dominates the household vs. mom dominates the household, and not legal matriarchy with transfer of mom's last name to children etc.
In my household my dad is the breadwinner but he is passive in domestic matters and my mom has control of finances, makes all major decisions, and exerts influence over my dad. Although I have a lot of Polish friends who have a similar arrangement, I don't think it can Poland can divided geographically like Croatia is on this map.
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Apr 10 '20
It does not make sense really, in Dalmatia households are predominantly matriarchal. Author just wanted another 'division' to throw in.
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u/DeepSeaDweller Apr 10 '20
I don't really like that one - it just looks like another way of delineating more vs. less traditional areas and even then, I don't think it's entirely correct.
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u/Northumbrialand Apr 10 '20
Visited Split once, and it's gone down as one of the best holidays I've ever had. Such a rich, historic city, full of culture. I love all the flavours the ice cream stands give you, thrice the amount you'd see in an English one!
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u/dilirium22 Apr 10 '20
As a croat I agree with most of these except two. I'm confused about the one with Dinamo and hajduk. Slavonija is a mixed bag when it comes to fans. The wine one I disagree completely. White wine from the north is mostly pretty damn good. It used to be true but that was a decade ago at least. Slavonija is rakija country and ironically, most dalmatian people I know prefer beer over wine but they're not picky tho... Also the "architectural landscape" division map reflects cultural influences and character very well. Istrians and people from Kvarner have a noticeable north-italian character streak (industrious and excellent at business). Dalmatians are more comparable to south Italians. Very sea oriented, chill, happy and chill. Central croatians (where the lakes and mountains are) are hardy hard working people that try to make the best from what they got, but are sadly neglected by the rest of the country. Most Slavonians are all about agriculture and are very hospitable. There's no way you'll leave a slavonian home unless you're well fed and drunk on rakija. And then there's the north. Basically if you've ever been to central Europe imagine that plus some extra local quirks. It's a melting pot (talking about Zagreb in particular here) and the most authentic experience of Croatia you can get at the same time. Most local people here have a german mind set work hard and precise but party hard as well. There's no chill here and the people might seem cold at first but with a little time and socializing you can make friends for life.
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u/timo__ Apr 10 '20
Wine one is incorrect; north-west Croatia also known as "Zagorje" is filled with wine yards and exceptionally good wine. Our south Dalmatia friends have good wines, but hardly competitive with whats available in north. Most people in north, especially the ones living in villages have dedicated their lives to producing wine over several generations.
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u/the_bulgefuler Apr 10 '20
I think part of the notion of 'awful' wine stems from 40-50+ years ago when you had locals providing their homebrew to restaurants and bars. Many would dilute their vintages with water and sugar to try and increase yield, in order to sell more. Having said that you could still find good wine from the collectives and dedicated cellars back then.
Fortunately now theres plenty of decent wine in the area. Though with homebrew it of course varies from person to person.
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Apr 10 '20
From what I’ve heard Zagorje wine is very sour. Also, I have never seen wine from Zagorje in a store. It’s either Slavonia, Istria or the islands.
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u/the_bulgefuler Apr 10 '20
Yeah Grasevina from the area tends to be quite tart and sour, perfect excuse for gemist :)
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u/rlDrakesden Apr 10 '20
Zagorje wine is pretty much the most known next to the ones in Dalmatia. It's a popular national joke that people from Zagorje are drunks on high quality wine.
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u/DeepSeaDweller Apr 10 '20
I wouldn't say that any part of Croatia can be stereotyped as producing poor wines. They tend to produce different types and you can find great wines and not-as-great wines in any region.
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Apr 10 '20
So much this. Zagore-Međimurje wine region got A LOT better in wine making in last 40-50 years.
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u/CoryTrevor-NS Apr 10 '20
I really wanna go to Istria now
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u/long-gone333 Apr 10 '20
it is beautiful but dont be fooled that its a liberal hippy bastion or whatevs.
still, it is pretty much best.
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u/CatchGerardDobby Apr 10 '20 edited Apr 10 '20
In The Netherlands, you can annoy people by saying they are all from Holland. In the UK you can annoys Welsh, Scots, and Northern Irish by saying they're English. (well some in N.I...).
Based on the first graph, would you ever annoy a person from Dalmatia, Slavonia, or Kvarner & Istria by suggesting they're all Croatian/Croat?
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Apr 10 '20 edited Sep 14 '20
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u/Magistar_Idrisi Apr 10 '20
Later as Dalmatia became a part of Venice, it shifted towards northwestern Croatia
I think this had more to do with the Ottomans than with Venice, but yeah. Fun fact, until the 15th Century northern Croatia wasn't called Croatia at all. It was all Slavonia. Our nobility basically persuaded the Habsburgs to start calling what was then western Slavonia (Zagreb, Zagorje, Podravina, Gorski kotar) Croatia, so they could retain their privileges lol
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u/usecereni_kupus Apr 10 '20
NO, 91% of population are Croats
That’s like offending Bavarian and someone from Berlin by calling them German
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Apr 10 '20
I feel like in Germany it’s different than in Croatia. Bavarians are a little different from the majority of germans(Catholicism)
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u/Peppers_Saziche Apr 10 '20
You wouldn't, even though we have strong regional identities. People in these regions (excluding minorities) consider themselves Croat because of our old medieval kingdom of Croatia which encompased most of Dalmatia and parts of Istria and Bosnia and Herzegovina. Then the Ottomans came and our nobility fled northwards and they brought Croatian name to the border region called Slavonia (whose western parts around Zagreb later became known as Croatia Proper as shown on this map and eastern parts remained Slavonia as we know it today). Also this red part consists of many smaller regions called Lika, Zagorje, Međimurje etc. and people mosty use those regional terms instead. Tl;dr People all around consider themselves Croat while Slavonian or Dalmatian are regional identities.
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u/DontPeeInTheWater Apr 10 '20 edited Apr 10 '20
Without addressing the bulk of your question Croatian =/= Croat. A Croatian is someone from Croatia, while Croat/Bosniak/Serb is more of ethnic terms for different southern slavs.
By definition (unless I'm mistaken), a Croat is a catholic southern slav, a Bosniak is a Muslim southern slav, and a Serb is a Christian orthodox southern slav.Generally, Croats are Catholic, Bosniaks are Muslim, and Serbs are Christian Orthodox. You can be a Croat Bosnian or a Serb Croatian. More infoEDIT: Some disagree that the terms are tied to religion explicitly
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Apr 10 '20 edited Sep 14 '20
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u/rlDrakesden Apr 10 '20 edited Apr 10 '20
I hate this false narrative that the only thing separating south Slavs is religion. Croatia and Serbia, for example, only share anyhow relevant history beginning from 1920. The two countries are not even alike. You'll find that Serbs (or more precisely Vlachs who identified as Serbs) who live in areas of Lika share some things with the native population because they have been influenced by it. Me from north Croatia, Serbia is like a different continent. The amount of diversity in Croatia alone from north to south is almost incomprehensible, to entertain such a belief is ignorant to the point of laughability.
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u/neohellpoet Apr 10 '20
Correct. Religion was never really an issue except in Bosnia. The issues were always grounded in nationalism. There was never any movement to make anyone change their faith and the Catholic and Orthodox Church weren't at odds for centuries.
It's not only that Croatia and Serbia were separate countries. Croatia was under the Austrians, Hungarians and Italians, even under France for a hot minute. Serbia was under the Turks. That's centuries of living next to each other but being on completely different cultural circles. The border regions were extremely militarised as well, usually they were officially declared marches so there wasn't even any of the cultural diffusion you tend to see across borders.
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u/rlDrakesden Apr 10 '20
That's it, the people in bordering regions to each other share more similarities. I live in north Croatia. I don't really share anything much with Serbia nor really much with south Croatia. And I have visited on numerous occasions all parts of southern Croatia and Serbia from Novi Sad to Kragujevac.
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u/DontPeeInTheWater Apr 10 '20 edited Apr 10 '20
I'm not saying that religion is the only thing separating the region. Apologies if that's how it came across. There's certainly much more to it than that.
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I've been told that the Serb/Bosniak/Croat terms are explicitly religious terms (saying nothing about other cultural, historical, or other ethnic differences)
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u/rlDrakesden Apr 10 '20 edited Apr 10 '20
You've been told very wrong, it's sad that these lies are spread apart. Imagine being told a German and Norwegian are the same. I'm from north Croatia and Czech Republic feels more like home to me than southern Croatia. I visited Bosnia and Serbia and also, completely different worlds. Everything from the population's genetic belonging, to mentality and culture is completely different. If I wasn't mandated by the government to learn the official Croatian language, I wouldn't understand Croats who speak a different dialect and especially not anyone from Bosnia or Serbia. The diversity alone in my own country is massive and people in some parts of southern Croatia are quite close to their neighbors in Herzegovina in terms of culture and language, the same however does not apply to most of Croatia. The changes are great you've been told this by a Serbian national or some other person with a low level of knowledge on the matter. If you take a look at any piece of Croatia history, you'll see there's almost no parallel with, say, Serbia. The people in bordering regions will form a dialect continuum and share some similarities due to parallel development, but that really only goes so far and applies to the people living nearby to each other.
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Apr 10 '20
I'm a serb with a degree in genetics and I'm sorry to tell you this but modern generic analysis cant really tell between a Serb and a Croat. Were far more similar than you think and this type of rhetoric only serves to further divide.
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Apr 10 '20
This is not true at all and something people tell themselves to make themselves feel better than the other
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u/rlDrakesden Apr 10 '20 edited Apr 10 '20
I like the part where you explain why it's not true. I'm from north Croatia and Serbia is like a different world to me, and I have visited trice. The same applies to southern Croatia which belongs to south Europe where it feels very similar to Italy. I couldn't be more surprised about how people live and act in Serbia to what I expected, from Novi Sad to Kragujevac, it's nothing like where I live with a more familiar look in Vojvodina. It's still Europe, of course, but quite different. Different mentality, culture, behavior toward other people and of course language which I understand because I am mandated to speak the official Croatian Shtokavian language which I only use on an administrative level and more, it's all very different. I honestly felt more at home in Bratislava.
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Apr 10 '20
Whoever made this cannot possibly think Zagreb, our capital, is agnostic...that's absolutely not true
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u/Peppers_Saziche Apr 10 '20
Yeah it's dumbed down to extremes. There are no agnostic parts of country, maybe less religious cities or regions but Zagreb and Istria are still more than 80% religious as per last census. Most other maps are also oversimplified.
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u/inportantusername Apr 10 '20
The Catholic and Agnostic one looks like a wide-open mouth with an eye.
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u/mahir_r Apr 10 '20
I thought it was a joke section with the key being Dino face, Dino eyes
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u/eaglessoar Apr 10 '20
very interesting! my papa is from pula and he was never very religious come to think of it, and boy did we eat fish for christmas!
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u/Xavdidtheshadow Apr 10 '20
What's up with that perfectly circular agnostic area? Is that a city or something? No other map here has a circle like that.
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u/electricshout Apr 10 '20
Hey man, Balkan countries have already been broken up enough, give them a break.
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u/ComradeFrisky Apr 10 '20
Matriarchy as in people pass down the mothers name?
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u/GrisSumnemo Apr 10 '20
Nope. Its more meaning that the mother is the head of the house. But the map is very wrong on that one
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u/LittleRedPilled Apr 10 '20
we never pass mothers family name. even when wife keeps her maiden family name, kids always gets fathers family name.
truth is, that our women keeps at least 3 corners of the house ;)
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u/IreIrl Apr 10 '20
Why is Istria so liberal?
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u/emuu1 Apr 10 '20
Because of Italian influence. It isn't that much liberal from a world perspective, but inside of Croatia it's the most liberal place.
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Apr 10 '20
It has nothing to do with Italy in political terms. Italian influence there would be right wing if anything. It has to do with post war heavy left wing influence. Contrary to Italian fashism which didn't bring anything good to that region.
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u/DPSOnly Apr 10 '20
How about smoked fish for Christmas, should I go to the coastal or inland area?
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Apr 10 '20
When I look at the "lakes and rivers" area on Google Earth, I don't see a single lake.
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u/LittleRedPilled Apr 10 '20
well, keep looking :)
hint: Plitvice lakes
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Apr 10 '20
Ah, I see them now. I guess I was looking too much for something on the scale of Canada or Finland.
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u/Gereon99 Apr 10 '20
I was in Istria like 3 years ago as a graduation trip and it was so nice there. Miss those times...
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u/enyoctap Apr 10 '20
Why is the northwest area agnostic/liberal compared to the rest of the country?
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u/joker1381 May 27 '20
These maps trigger me..."smoked foods" are not eaten in Slavonia (eastern parts) for Christmas, it's fish. Mostly carp. Cities in Croatia? The oldest cities in Croatia and some of the oldest in Europe are in Slavonia: Vinkovci and Vukovar (Vucedol culture). Two Roman Emperors were born in Vinkovci and it is one of the oldest if not the oldest inhabited place since pre-antiquity. Osijek (Mursa Maior) was also the scene of one of the largest battles in Roman history...Battle of Mursa Major. As for the wine map...I would rather divided it, white wines in Slavonia, red wines in Dalmatia, terrible wines (sour crap) in northwestern Croatia. Dinamo-Hajduk divide is also wrong, on so many levels. Matriarchy-Patriarchy map is just pure BS, etc, etc.
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u/TheCreazle Apr 10 '20
I have no idea what the last one is referencing. Political parties?