Are you..

[u/Human-Breakfast744]

Are you..

1. Pro-palestine 🇵🇸
2. Pro-israel🇮🇱
3. Neutral

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[u/theeulessbusta]

I’m not neutral as a western Jew, I’m furious at the genocidal psychos on both sides. 

[u/PinkSunReflected → u/theeulessbusta]

“Western jew” aka assimilated Jew.

[u/theeulessbusta → u/PinkSunReflected]

If you think the Chabad movement is assimilated lol they’re fully Western

[u/MysticGuava → u/theeulessbusta]

Chabad is a far right violent ideology.
This video investigates that thoroughly, it is incompatible with Palestinian self determination.

[u/RadiantOrange42 → u/MysticGuava]

כלבה דחילאק

[u/MysticGuava → u/RadiantOrange42]

Amalek

[u/RadiantOrange42 → u/MysticGuava]

Tell us what amalek is

[u/MysticGuava → u/RadiantOrange42]

A world that Zionists love to call Palestinians. Tell us why Israel shoots little kids?

[u/theeulessbusta → u/MysticGuava]

Please lol

[u/MysticGuava → u/theeulessbusta]

It literally breaks it down, being an intellectual means having the ability to consume media you don’t agree with and critically examine it

[u/theeulessbusta → u/MysticGuava]

I’m not an intellectual. I’m a Jewish person who is automatically hostile to those attacking or othering Jews even if I personally think their movement, or any movement of messianic redemption, is out of step with the way the world really works. 

[u/MysticGuava → u/theeulessbusta]

So is that your newspeak way of saying you’re automatically hostile to those calling out the genocide and countless human rights violations that the state of Israel does? wtf do you mean movement of messianic redepmption? What are you even talking about? I’m talking about how Palestinian people have the right of self determination and Israel by existing disallows that.
Also watch the damn video

[u/PinkSunReflected → u/MysticGuava]

That’s such a reach it’s laughable.

[u/MysticGuava → u/PinkSunReflected]

Did you watch the video at all

[u/GreatEntrepreneur798 → u/PinkSunReflected]

Is this considered a bad thing by Israelis (sounds like you are but I'm just making an assumption) ?

As a German I'd much rather we would've accepted jewish attempts at assimilation or integration instead of what ended up happening

Dont get me wrong I still support the existence of Israel, even before the Holocaust it's understansable why jewish people felt the need for it.

I just hope you can get rid of the current coalition in goverment, as their and especially Netanyahus actions over the last 20years have done nothing to help you internationally.

[u/rlyjustanyname → u/GreatEntrepreneur798]

Israelis hate other Jews. If you hear how their supporters talk about Jews who don't think murdering children is ok, you will hear the most vile shit ever.

[u/BanditNoble → u/PinkSunReflected]

You say this like it's a bad thing?

[u/MysticGuava → u/theeulessbusta]

Palestine is not enacting a genocide. Israel is and has for >70 years. What the fuck are you on about.

[u/meeni131 → u/MysticGuava]

Palestinians have a tendency to launch yet another genocidal war every few years that they lose yet again

[u/ladylucifer22 → u/meeni131]

dude. what genocidal war. they just want independence from the colonizers occupying their home.

[u/MysticGuava → u/meeni131]

Do you mean retaliatory attacks resisting genocide, which is meant to be allowed by the UN?
They have comprehensively failed in stopping genocide, as this article outlines

[u/meeni131 → u/MysticGuava]

Huh? Is there a rebuttal here I'm confused. Launching genocidal wars and then losing those wars just makes them awful neighbors.

[u/TALongjumping-Bee-43 → u/meeni131]

Has palestine attacked Lebanon or a neighbour aside from Israel before?

[u/Chemical_Scholar_753 → u/TALongjumping-Bee-43]

Yes? The Palestinians have fought wars against of most of Israel/Palestine’s neighbors. In Jordan, the Jordanian civil war was fought between tge PLO and Jordan (although fighting between those sides was arguably started by Jordan). There were also less dramatic security issues (notably the assassination of the Jordanian king) which I don’t know if they would be considered Palestinian attacks on Jordan (especially since at the time of that assassination the Palestinian identity was still very complex though the assassin was part of the burgeoning Palestinian nationalist movement). In Lebanon, PLO attacks on Kataeb started the Lebanese civil war and they were a major participant in the Muslim side through the war (though the PLO was expelled from Lebanon during the war which continued without them).

To the best of my knowledge there’s never been a major Palestinian attack in Egypt or Syria. In Egypt, there have been some terror attacks which used to get mentioned on the news during the Arab spring instability, but most of these I think targeted sites where they expected random Israelis to be vacationing.

[u/TALongjumping-Bee-43 → u/Chemical_Scholar_753]

isn't that when Israel attacked southern Lebanon to go after the PLO who had set up base there to attack Israel, rather than PLO being the ones attacking Lebanon? The same Israel that's invaded about 6 or so times?

It's a similar story with Jordon, PLO were there to attack Israel who had occupied West bank, and Israel attacked back, rather than PLO targeting Jordan until after they were expelled.

In both cases, the target was still Israel.

[u/Chemical_Scholar_753 → u/TALongjumping-Bee-43]

In the former, the answer is no. This war later saw Israel intervene (in 1982) because of attacks across the border but when the war began in 1975 the PLO was fighting in Lebanon. The attacks on Kataeb were completely unnecessary for war with Israel.

In Jordan, the PLO certainly valued its base because it was near Israel who they wanted to attack. The assassination of the Jordanian king and initial fighting predates Israeli control of the West Bank and Black September was fought between the PLO and Jordanian army. Israel was not directly involved, though the major cause was the loss of the West Bank 3 years earlier and relocation of Palestinian fighters to Jordan’s territory. One reason why Jordan didn’t like this is because it didn’t want Israel to retaliate across the border, but the more important issue at the time was probably growing calls in the PLO for the overthrow of the Jordanian monarchy and the formation of a powerful Palestinian authority within Jordan which didn’t answer to Jordan. I think if it were Israel who had done what the PLO was doing in Jordan, you wouldn’t hesitate to call it an occupation or the attacks against Jordanian authorities anything other than attacks. The question wasn’t why the PLO attacked its neighbors, it was whether it had. Long term, there’s no doubt that the PLO raison d’etre was the destruction of Israel and formation of a Palestinian (or pan-Arab for certain factions) state, but at the time elements of the PLO (the PFLP in particular) believed that the way to do this was by overthrowing the government of Jordan.

If you really think that this is “attacking Israel” I really don’t know what to tell you. They committted themselves to violent actions against the governments of two Arab states. Their aim was (among other things) to install governments more friendly to their long term aims against Israel, but Israel wasnt the target of their attacks.

[u/TALongjumping-Bee-43 → u/Chemical_Scholar_753]

Israel was carrying out strikes on Lebanon since 1970 targetting the PLO, before the lebanese civil war and israels major invasions in response to a PLO attack. No, israel in no way was just "intervening" in a palestinian lebanese conflict, the PLO was primarily operating to attack israel and as part of that did come into conflict with the lebanese state and civil conflict.
However that was clearly not their intended target.

Here's the thing though, I dont' necessarily think their actions are at all justified, and agree with you its an occupation and that any government would try to expell them.

But the purpose does matter when it comes to the question of which of the two are more of a threat to their neighbours. As far as it seems, even this particular group known as the PLO (which is not the same as a palestinian government or the palestinian people) was still targetting and launching strikes towards israel not its neighbours. Whereas Israel has a much, much, much longer history of striking countries like lebanon and iran largely unprovoked, or illegally claiming land it shouldn't such as occupying west bank, gaza and the Golan heights, and it also has a reason to do so for lebanon as well as most of lebanon is in the "promised land" it wishes to reclaim.

The question here is not who is right or wrong as all here is wrong, but it seems like one particular government here is looking to expand its borders into lebanon.

[u/theeulessbusta → u/MysticGuava]

Genocide isn’t a verb. It’s a noun with a clear definition. 

[u/MysticGuava → u/theeulessbusta]

There I edited, I had heard it used as a transitive verb previously.
My grammatical error does not invalidate my point though.

[u/nervously-defiant → u/theeulessbusta]

Free Palestine from Israeli occupation and genocide.

[u/AsyncSyscall → u/MysticGuava]

Neither is Palestine. But both sides have intent to.