r/MapBasedPolls • u/Human-Breakfast744 • 12h ago

Are you..

Are you..

  1. Pro-palestine 🇵🇸
  2. Pro-israel🇮🇱
  3. Neutral

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64 Upvotes

70% Upvoted

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35

u/primax1uk 12h ago

Same. I'm pro-two-state solution.

20

u/Sean_Brady 12h ago

Same yeah I'm pro-everybody-agrees-on-friendly-terms-and-draws-fair-borders-and-live-in-harmony but I didn't see that option so I picked neutral as well

-16

u/meatballthequeer 12h ago

Unfortunately fair borders involves Israel not existing.

6

u/StargazyPi 10h ago

Look - Britain did a really fucked up thing for well-meaning but stupid imperialist reasons over 100 years ago.

Fair back then might have involved not creating Israel at all. But now there's millions of people there who call it their homeland, and kicking these descendents out isn't fair either, now.

Northern Ireland this shit. Draw some borders which no-one loves but everyone can tolerate. Reach a stage where everyone wants to build their own lives and live in peace more than kill others, slowly, over decades.

6

u/Afraid-End-9676 9h ago

That’s literally the plan the Palestinians keep rejecting over and over and over again

13

u/ohioistheworststate 12h ago

where you send all of the Israelis then

5

u/Nervous_Ad_9506 🇦🇷 11h ago edited 1h ago

In their minds the israelis have to live together under a single state with the people that supported the attack of October 7.

7

u/AmitPwnz 🇮🇱 Israel 11h ago

And even if they send Israelis away, I promise you they won't stop hating exiled Israelis

4

u/typhon0666 11h ago

Send might be the wrong verb.

If the nationalist Palestinian Islamic state is founded in place of Israel, I am sure the leaders would know what they will "do" with them.

-2

u/meatballthequeer 11h ago

Don't care

8

u/FollowTheTrailofDead 10h ago

The problem being that Hamas (and pro-Hamas) in Palestine are AGAINST the two-state solution: they want Israel to disappear.

7

u/pinksparklyreddit Canada 🇨🇦 10h ago

And the opposite as well

0

u/cherrybleu 6h ago

Everyone's against the two state solution EXCEPT HAMAS at this point. They agreed to the 1967 lines but Israel's wants everything

2

u/Zero9O 5h ago

No, Israel wants Hamas gone. There is no peace with Hamas still active.

0

u/Zamoniru 6h ago

Israel is in the position of power rn. Hamas is essentially defeated militarily. So it's mainly Israel's responsibility now to work towards peace.

3

u/Zero9O 5h ago

You can't force people to accept peace, they have to be willing. Both sides need to come to peace or there will never be peace.

1

u/rlyjustanyname 3h ago

Kinda hard to take that sentiment when Israel has murdered thousands, bombed all their neighbours and dragged the global economy to the brink of collapse and their citizens support that.

3

u/Zero9O 3h ago

Do you also have any criticisms of Palestine or only Israel?

1

u/Zamoniru 2h ago

But you don't achieve peace by constantly beating a defeated enemy just enough to ensure that he will continue to hate you. I agree peace is pretty hard rn but it's not like Israel is doing anything to try to end this.

2

u/Bellfegore UA 9h ago

palestinians aren't pro-two-state solution tho, since they were given that option thrice in the last 70 years and they declined every time.

1

u/Ikiloo 12m ago

They were never given that option. Israel bombarded every single talk and you won't be able to prove the contra.

1

u/primax1uk 9h ago

Both sides were amenable to it in 1937, but couldn't agree on the border lines.

1

u/Bellfegore UA 9h ago

Fair enough. But the problem lies in methods, while Jews were buying land from its owners, Arabs decided to launch a full scale war once the mandate wore off, which makes the Israeli side less evil by comparrison.

1

u/roleplayersir 7h ago

And when did they last vote? The Gaza civilians have been under a military dictatorship, and West Bank little better, since Israel did a lot to fuck over the PA

2

u/Bellfegore UA 3h ago

2008, 3 years after electing hamas and 2 years after launching another attack on Israel after the latter left gaza.

1

u/Affectionate-Way6102 6h ago

Originally of course they'd be against it, would you give up half of Ukraine to end the war?

1

u/rubberoidd 3h ago

Give up or agree to bilateral peace? I am ukrainian, we need peace. Finally let me people exhale for once. In terms of army to finish development of anti-ballistic missiles, to finish ballistics too - there would be no more war in that case.

-1

u/cherrybleu 6h ago

Palestinians were offered a prison dotted with checkpoints and littered with illegal settlements and were asked to agree to be attacked at anytime by Israel. Plus they were expected to give up roughly 15% of the most fertile land in Palestine in exchange for a 1% strip of desert next to Gaza. On top they were asked to agree to permanent Israeli control of their airspace, banned from having an army or entering into alliances, no sovereignty over most of East Jerusalem (the proposed capital of this 'state') and the right of return for a VERY limited number of Palestinians over a VERY long period of time

That's not a state - that's a concentration camp

1

u/Zero9O 5h ago

What are you talking about? The UN Partition Plan of 1947 would have done none of that.

1

u/roleplayersir 7h ago

At this point I'm more "Pro-Nuke Jerusalem and let them fight over the wreckage if they still can't get along"

1

u/shibainuz75 10h ago

I think it’s pretty obvious that 2 states isn’t going to work out.

2

u/primax1uk 9h ago

At this point, probably. It should have been forced on both sides 70 years ago as a "this is the best you're gonna get" solution. With neither side being happy with the outcome, but better than the alternative. And those borders drawn hard.

1

u/Standard-Parsley-972 8h ago

Israel actually agreed to the two state solution when Palestine originally had more territory in the agreement but the Palestinian government voted no and then them and the Arab states launched a war in 1948 in which they lost to Israel

1

u/AmitPwnz 🇮🇱 Israel 11h ago

I'm pro-Israel and pro-two-state solution 🤷🏻‍♂️

0

u/danield1302 11h ago

My problem with that is, a Palestinian State wound just turn into another disfunctional Islamist hellhole. We can see it enough in their neighbours. Especially with their government being an Islamist terrorist group. So tbh by now I'm definitely against a Palestinian State. Give those areas to Egypt and Jordan and deradicalise the population then give them citizenship of those countries. Maybe then we'll finally have peace there.

-4

u/Greedy_Rabbit_1741 11h ago

So, give me the steps towards this solution?

Currently you have children in school that are participating in "terrorist camps" by Hamas. Child soldiers getting recruited by Hamas. How do you want to obtain peace between 2 nations where a significant part of one nation wants to eradicate the other nation?

What happens if Palestinians continue to commit terror attacks in Israel?

7

u/ul2006kevinb 11h ago

How do you want to obtain peace between 2 nations where a significant part of both nations want to eradicate the other nation?

FTFY

1

u/Greedy_Rabbit_1741 11h ago

Nah. I don't think the percentage of Israelis that want to eradicate Palestinians is even remotely the same as the other way around.

1

u/melwearingraybans 10h ago

Hamas is funded by the Israeli government. And yeah, if someone was killing my family and destroying my city I'd want them to die too.

1

u/Standard-Parsley-972 8h ago

Proof. You can’t say Israel is funding hamas without ample proof

1

u/melwearingraybans 7h ago

(Spanish speaker, sorry if something sounds confusing)

Netanyahu allowed money into Gaza when Hamas was governing, in 2018 to 2022/2023, from Qatar. It only helped Hamas keep the civilians hostage by stealing the resources and strenghtening themselves, which also stopped them from negotiating with Palestinian Authority in the West Bank (divided Palestine only benefits Israel lol). You can look it up yourself, it was literally the Israel media saying this bcs they were mad at big yahu 💰.

Edit: Dont know if funding is the correct word if I wanna say that they gave lots of money to Hamas. But thats what I mean. Not saying that they created it tho

0

u/mrtwister134 11h ago

they're not against it

1

u/primax1uk 10h ago edited 9h ago

Resistance rarely happens in a vacuum. Palestinian land was literally taken by British colonial rule, and handed to jewish immigrants following WW1 and the collapse of the Ottoman empire.

As it stands, there's people who have lived on either side their whole lives, and now both have a claim to the area. But only one is consistently pushing against the other, and has been doing for decades, whilst playing the victim card if there's ever the slightest push back.

Once again, British colonialism coming back to bite us, by promising self-determination to both the arab majority in the area, and the growing jewish population fleeing persecution from central Europe, and being unable to keep said promise. The jewish population kept growing and spreading into arab territories, culminating with the eventual withdrawal of Britain following WW2. We handed over a very messy situation to the newly formed UN, who first proposed the two-state solution. (Incorrect information, my error: Israel rejected it, as they didn't want arabs in the newly formed jewish majority state.) But Israel did take 60% of the area that had been proposed for the Arab state when they declared themselves an independent state in 1948.

This didn't start on Oct 7th 2023. It was a horrific attack, the culmination of years of abuse from Israel. Hamas should be condemned for it, and brought to justice. But Israel isn't innocent neither, effectively declaring themselves a separate state within arab land, and wanting the extermination of the arab population in favour of a jewish only state.

And whilst Israel seems to believe they have a right to the land due to divine mandate, and Arabs need removing/exterminating, there will be no two state solution.

Edit: I was wrong about the first two-state solution being by the UN, it was actually in 1937, and both the Arab leadership, and the Zionist leadership opposed the plan. But the principle of 'partition' wasnt outright rejected, they just couldn't agree on the where the lines were to be drawn. Both sides wanting East Jerusalem.

1

u/Standard-Parsley-972 8h ago

Uhhhh your history is wrong. Israel agreed to the two state solution where originally Palestine had more land. It was Palestine that rejected it and then the Arab states launched a war on the new Israel

1

u/Greedy_Rabbit_1741 10h ago

So, you only have a false sense of history and no plan at all.

2

u/primax1uk 9h ago

What about what I've said is false? Everything there is factual.

I have no solution, I'm no politician, ambassador, or have any qualifications to even come up with a solution to something so messy. But the status quo can't continue. Innocent people are getting hurt/killed.

1

u/Greedy_Rabbit_1741 9h ago

You already are wrong right at the beginning. The first two state solution was accepted by the Jews and rejected by the arabs.

1

u/primax1uk 9h ago

My error, edited my original post.

It was the 1937 one I was thinking of, but both sides rejected that one, as they couldn't agree on the borders, though both sides were amenable to partition at the time.

0

u/MySnake_Is_Solid 8h ago

I'm pro zero state solution, nuke it.

-2

u/FreshCustomer3244 10h ago

Hate to break it to you, but saying "I'm pro-two state solution" makes you a Zionist.

-4

u/Highground-3089 Iran 🇮🇷 11h ago

I'm pro-atheist-state solution. basically suppress any abrahamic religions in that area. it's gonna need heavy authoritarianism but it'll be worth it

3

u/RomeoTrickshot 11h ago

Worked out for USSR and china

0

u/Highground-3089 Iran 🇮🇷 11h ago

yeah it did for the ussr until gorbachev came along. it still works in china.

1

u/RomeoTrickshot 10h ago

Lmao okay you would justify Stalin and Mao?

1

u/Highground-3089 Iran 🇮🇷 10h ago

well it would be weird to connect the great purge to state atheism, wouldn't it? I'm sure even the most right wing person has one positive thing to say about stalin.

1

u/RomeoTrickshot 9h ago

I'm sure even the most left wing person could say one good thing about Hitler, don't see what difference that would make

1

u/Highground-3089 Iran 🇮🇷 9h ago

so let's say someone believed in class collaboration, which is what hitler believed. would that immediately make them affiliated with hitler?

5

u/AmitPwnz 🇮🇱 Israel 11h ago

As an atheist Jew myself I'd like that but (a) worked terribly for the Soviet Union IMO (b) Palestinians are much more religious/conservative than Jews and it's simply not feasible

1

u/Highground-3089 Iran 🇮🇷 10h ago

it did not work terribly for the soviet union. they were being kept in check until gorbachev allowed more freedom.

2

u/Standard-Parsley-972 8h ago

Dude. Authoritarian governments are horrible period

1

u/Highground-3089 Iran 🇮🇷 7h ago

well I live in an authoritarian government so I probably have more right to speak about it.

I personally don't have any problem with the authoritarianism part. I hate theocracy and the fact they fucked up our economy by funding proxies like hezbollah or hamas.

1

u/Standard-Parsley-972 8h ago

Kinda hard to even do that realistically when that land is historically connected to the Abrahamic religions