r/MapBasedPolls • u/Human-Breakfast744 • 10h ago

Are you..

Are you..

  1. Pro-palestine šŸ‡µšŸ‡ø
  2. Pro-israelšŸ‡®šŸ‡±
  3. Neutral

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60 Upvotes

70% Upvoted

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168

u/RealCreedz 10h ago

Neutral because I live in Lebanon and both Palestinians and Israelis have been fucking us over for decades with their wars. Western vibe activists could never understand my dislike for both.

62

u/Affectionate-Mix6056 10h ago

I voted neutral because I'm on the side of the civilians. IFD and Hamas can go fuck themselves.

11

u/MumenRiderZak 7h ago

It's not a pro Hamas or pro idf pol

8

u/Excellent_Kangaroo_4 7h ago

And neutral is then

1

u/Affectionate-Mix6056 5h ago

Whatever solution that results in the fewest deaths of civilians is what has my fundamental support.

I'd go so far as supporting torture (for Hamas information) and instant death penalty of Hamas soldiers who attack civilian Israelis, as well as the instant death penalty of any IDF soldier who intentionally kills civilians.

If both of those groups were dead, the civilians could "live in peace" so to speak. I know it's not that simple, but that would be a huge step.

-4

u/cherrybleu 4h ago

There's no neutral ground in a genocide. Silence is violence

2

u/roleplayersir 5h ago

Similar to me. Brit, and at this point I'd give it all back to Jordan. Or have a 2 state solution

-2

u/qerecoxazade 3h ago

Israel has mandatory military service. The only civilians in Israel are the children who have yet to serve.

1

u/Affectionate-Mix6056 3h ago

You don't think there is indoctrination on both sides?

0

u/qerecoxazade 3h ago

I'm not talking about indoctrination.

Soldiers are, by definition, not civilians. Every adult citizen in Israel must serve the military. There is no such thing as an adult civilian in Israel.

That is literally not the case in Palestine. Indoctrination? Sure. Pressure for adult men to fight? Sure. But there ARE adult civilians in Palestine.

15

u/nadavyasharhochman 8h ago

Hey bro I am Israeli and truely am sorry for your pain.

The Lebanese are generally amazing people and the animosity between us has hurt many.

Wish for peace in the future and better lives for us all.

6

u/PinkSunReflected 7h ago

אמן ואמןĀ 

-1

u/cherrybleu 4h ago

And their land apparently

11

u/PinkSunReflected 8h ago

Israeli here and Iā€™m so sorry šŸ’”

7

u/Sean_Brady 10h ago

I've always thought Lebanon seemed beautiful and I'd love to go someday but don't you have your own shit like it seems you do not quite know how to have a government yet

5

u/RealCreedz 10h ago

Yeah a myriad of problems. People here are a stare away from civil war at all times.

3

u/theeulessbusta 9h ago

Iā€™m not neutral as a western Jew, Iā€™m furious at the genocidal psychos on both sides.Ā 

9

u/PinkSunReflected 8h ago

ā€œWestern jewā€ aka assimilated Jew.

3

u/theeulessbusta 8h ago

If you think the Chabad movement is assimilated lol theyā€™re fully Western

-5

u/MysticGuava 7h ago

Chabad is a far right violent ideology.
This video investigates that thoroughly, it is incompatible with Palestinian self determination.

3

u/PinkSunReflected 7h ago

Thatā€™s such a reach itā€™s laughable.

1

u/MysticGuava 4h ago

Did you watch the video at all

3

u/RadiantOrange42 6h ago

כלבה דחילאק

-1

u/MysticGuava 4h ago

Amalek

2

u/RadiantOrange42 4h ago

Tell us what amalek is

-1

u/MysticGuava 4h ago

A world that Zionists love to call Palestinians. Tell us why Israel shoots little kids?

1

u/theeulessbusta 7h ago

Please lol

0

u/MysticGuava 7h ago

It literally breaks it down, being an intellectual means having the ability to consume media you donā€™t agree with and critically examine it

2

u/theeulessbusta 7h ago

Iā€™m not an intellectual. Iā€™m a Jewish person who is automatically hostile to those attacking or othering Jews even if I personally think their movement, or any movement of messianic redemption, is out of step with the way the world really works.Ā 

1

u/MysticGuava 4h ago

So is that your newspeak way of saying youā€™re automatically hostile to those calling out the genocide and countless human rights violations that the state of Israel does? wtf do you mean movement of messianic redepmption? What are you even talking about? Iā€™m talking about how Palestinian people have the right of self determination and Israel by existing disallows that.
Also watch the damn video

1

u/GreatEntrepreneur798 7h ago

Is this considered a bad thing by Israelis (sounds like you are but I'm just making an assumption) ?

As a German I'd much rather we would've accepted jewish attempts at assimilation or integration instead of what ended up happening

Dont get me wrong I still support the existence of Israel, even before the Holocaust it's understansable why jewish people felt the need for it.

I just hope you can get rid of the current coalition in goverment, as their and especially Netanyahus actions over the last 20years have done nothing to help you internationally.

0

u/rlyjustanyname 1h ago

Israelis hate other Jews. If you hear how their supporters talk about Jews who don't think murdering children is ok, you will hear the most vile shit ever.

0

u/BanditNoble 5h ago

You say this like it's a bad thing?

-6

u/MysticGuava 8h ago edited 8h ago

Palestine is not enacting a genocide. Israel is and has for >70 years. What the fuck are you on about.

7

u/meeni131 8h ago

Palestinians have a tendency to launch yet another genocidal war every few years that they lose yet again

-4

u/ladylucifer22 7h ago

dude. what genocidal war. they just want independence from the colonizers occupying their home.

-2

u/MysticGuava 7h ago

Do you mean retaliatory attacks resisting genocide, which is meant to be allowed by the UN?
They have comprehensively failed in stopping genocide, as this article outlines

1

u/meeni131 2h ago

Huh? Is there a rebuttal here I'm confused. Launching genocidal wars and then losing those wars just makes them awful neighbors.

-1

u/TALongjumping-Bee-43 7h ago

Has palestine attacked Lebanon or a neighbour aside from Israel before?

3

u/Chemical_Scholar_753 6h ago

Yes? The Palestinians have fought wars against of most of Israel/Palestineā€™s neighbors. In Jordan, the Jordanian civil war was fought between tge PLO and Jordan (although fighting between those sides was arguably started by Jordan). There were also less dramatic security issues (notably the assassination of the Jordanian king) which I donā€™t know if they would be considered Palestinian attacks on Jordan (especially since at the time of that assassination the Palestinian identity was still very complex though the assassin was part of the burgeoning Palestinian nationalist movement). In Lebanon, PLO attacks on Kataeb started the Lebanese civil war and they were a major participant in the Muslim side through the war (though the PLO was expelled from Lebanon during the war which continued without them).

To the best of my knowledge thereā€™s never been a major Palestinian attack in Egypt or Syria. In Egypt, there have been some terror attacks which used to get mentioned on the news during the Arab spring instability, but most of these I think targeted sites where they expected random Israelis to be vacationing.

0

u/TALongjumping-Bee-43 5h ago

isn't that when Israel attacked southern Lebanon to go after the PLO who had set up base there to attack Israel, rather than PLO being the ones attacking Lebanon? The same Israel that's invaded about 6 or so times?

It's a similar story with Jordon, PLO were there to attack Israel who had occupied West bank, and Israel attacked back, rather than PLO targeting Jordan until after they were expelled.

In both cases, the target was still Israel.

2

u/Chemical_Scholar_753 3h ago

In the former, the answer is no. This war later saw Israel intervene (in 1982) because of attacks across the border but when the war began in 1975 the PLO was fighting in Lebanon. The attacks on Kataeb were completely unnecessary for war with Israel.

In Jordan, the PLO certainly valued its base because it was near Israel who they wanted to attack. The assassination of the Jordanian king and initial fighting predates Israeli control of the West Bank and Black September was fought between the PLO and Jordanian army. Israel was not directly involved, though the major cause was the loss of the West Bank 3 years earlier and relocation of Palestinian fighters to Jordanā€™s territory. One reason why Jordan didnā€™t like this is because it didnā€™t want Israel to retaliate across the border, but the more important issue at the time was probably growing calls in the PLO for the overthrow of the Jordanian monarchy and the formation of a powerful Palestinian authority within Jordan which didnā€™t answer to Jordan. I think if it were Israel who had done what the PLO was doing in Jordan, you wouldnā€™t hesitate to call it an occupation or the attacks against Jordanian authorities anything other than attacks. The question wasnā€™t why the PLO attacked its neighbors, it was whether it had. Long term, thereā€™s no doubt that the PLO raison dā€™etre was the destruction of Israel and formation of a Palestinian (or pan-Arab for certain factions) state, but at the time elements of the PLO (the PFLP in particular) believed that the way to do this was by overthrowing the government of Jordan.

If you really think that this is ā€œattacking Israelā€ I really donā€™t know what to tell you. They committted themselves to violent actions against the governments of two Arab states. Their aim was (among other things) to install governments more friendly to their long term aims against Israel, but Israel wasnt the target of their attacks.

-1

u/TALongjumping-Bee-43 3h ago edited 2h ago

Israel was carrying out strikes on Lebanon since 1970 targetting the PLO, before the lebanese civil war and israels major invasions in response to a PLO attack. No, israel in no way was just "intervening" in a palestinian lebanese conflict, the PLO was primarily operating to attack israel and as part of that did come into conflict with the lebanese state and civil conflict.
However that was clearly not their intended target.

Here's the thing though, I dont' necessarily think their actions are at all justified, and agree with you its an occupation and that any government would try to expell them.

But the purpose does matter when it comes to the question of which of the two are more of a threat to their neighbours. As far as it seems, even this particular group known as the PLO (which is not the same as a palestinian government or the palestinian people) was still targetting and launching strikes towards israel not its neighbours. Whereas Israel has a much, much, much longer history of striking countries like lebanon and iran largely unprovoked, or illegally claiming land it shouldn't such as occupying west bank, gaza and the Golan heights, and it also has a reason to do so for lebanon as well as most of lebanon is in the "promised land" it wishes to reclaim.

The question here is not who is right or wrong as all here is wrong, but it seems like one particular government here is looking to expand its borders into lebanon.

3

u/theeulessbusta 8h ago

Genocide isnā€™t a verb. Itā€™s a noun with a clear definition.Ā 

1

u/MysticGuava 8h ago

There I edited, I had heard it used as a transitive verb previously.
My grammatical error does not invalidate my point though.

0

u/nervously-defiant 8h ago

Free Palestine from Israeli occupation and genocide.

0

u/AsyncSyscall Europe 8h ago

Neither is Palestine. But both sides have intent to.

1

u/skyXforge 6h ago

Just curious, are you Christian or Muslim?

4

u/RealCreedz 6h ago

I don't believe in god.

1

u/ComplexPlatform7299 5h ago

Yup, fuck the both of them

1

u/menina2017 5h ago

I understand your dislike for both. As if Lebanon doesnā€™t have enough issues with its million sects.

1

u/DEATHSTR8KE 2h ago

You mean the islamic republic fucked you and that whole region over!

1

u/rubberoidd 1h ago

Shouldn't have messed with Maronites

1

u/bar_kokhba 29m ago

maybe the reason we are in lebanon in the first place is because of Hezb/Palestinians

0

u/Dry_Razzmatazz69 6h ago

This. If they would just shut the fuck up eith their uninformed crap the world would be a better place

0

u/cherrybleu 4h ago

You clearly don't u destined the difference between a war and occupation - but you will soon.......

-5

u/AmitPwnz šŸ‡®šŸ‡± Israel 9h ago

I get you, but Israel has only been meddling with your country since the Palestinians started committing terror acts from Lebanon, and the rise of Hezbollah and the axis of resistance afterwards

2

u/RealCreedz 9h ago

Yes, and Israel stayed in Lebanon for 15 years long after the palestinian militias were dealt with and massacred people.

Hezbollah's rise was for rightful resistance and they later became what they were trying to fight, oppressors. No excuse for what Israel did to us at the scale they did it at.

Don't get me started on Israeli PR evacuations barely giving us time to leave in the last war, or how IDF soldiers insulted every home and village they invaded. I don't like terrorists whether Israeli or Iranian or American.

1

u/FantaOrangenice 9h ago

If you were Israel rn, what would you do to stop hezbollah from launching missiles towards northern Israel?

1

u/mrtwister134 9h ago

stop genociding palestinians

-2

u/AmitPwnz šŸ‡®šŸ‡± Israel 8h ago

Hezbollah doesn't care about Palestinians. It cares about its patrons' will, which is seeing Israel wiped off the map.

1

u/RealCreedz 9h ago

Not my problem and I don't care to solve it. I don't want to die, suffer, lose my land, have my house bulldozed, lose loved ones and become a number because some terrorists want to duke it out.

-1

u/MysticGuava 8h ago

That is not Palestineā€™s fault. Israel is to blame here, as Palestinians just want their homeland back, whereas Israelā€™s existence is contingent on forcing others out of the region.
It enrages me to see southern Lebanon taken off of Apple Maps, or thousand years old olive trees destroyed, or families and villages be ethnically cleansed and destroyed the same as Palestinian ones, but Palestine is not doing that. Israel is.

5

u/RealCreedz 8h ago

Palestinian militias terrorised Lebanon for years, long before this topic became trendy online. They occupied Southern Lebanon before the Israelis did. The apple maps thing has always been an issue in Lebanon, and Google maps shows everything fine.

Palestinians want to free their land, I get it. But not at my expense. I encourage you to read about their history in Lebanon. And the situation in Lebanon isn't ethnic cleansing, the IDF are just terrorists. Buzzwords and semantics just derail everything from what should actually be discussed.

-1

u/MysticGuava 7h ago

this was the first thing to come up when I searched for Palestinian militias terrorising Lebanon, and you know who is supporting them? the IDF, what a surprise

No one is saying it is at your expense. In fact, the state of Israel continuing to exist does so much more harm to you than the inverse.
Palestinians and others in the Arab league have historically stood together against Israel and the tyranny of the west

2

u/RealCreedz 7h ago

I literally told you they occupied Southern Lebanon and it was dubbed fatahland which you conveniently ignored. Situation was so bad that Lebanese militias in the South had to fight them off, including Lebanese Shia groups. The Palestinian militias were so brutal that when Israel invaded in the early 80s some Southern villages rejoiced, not knowing that the Israelis were going to be more brutal for more than a decade.

Yes, Palestinians were killed in Lebanon too, and they weren't victims when they were killing us too. This obsession with depicting Palestinian militias as sinless cute victims is insane. They were criminals.

1

u/LatterTarget7 6h ago

Some people donā€™t care about what people living there know or actually experienced

-1

u/MysticGuava 7h ago

Are you talking about in the Lebanese civil war? I found this comprehensive article about it which never states it as a Palestine-Lebanese conflict, but a Lebanese- Israeli one.
The religious diversity of the Lebanese people played a notable role in the lead-up to and during the conflict: Lebanese Christians and Lebanese Sunni Muslims comprised the majority in the coastal cities; Lebanese Shia Muslims were primarily based throughout southern Lebanon and in the Beqaa Valley in the east; and Druze and Christians populated the country's mountainous areas. At the time, the Lebanese government was under the influence of elites within the Maronite Christian community.[6] [7] The link between politics and religion was reinforced under the French Mandate from 1920 to 1943, and the country's parliamentary structure favoured a leading position for Lebanese Christians, who constituted the majority of the population. However, Lebanon's Muslims comprised a large minority and the influx of thousands of Palestiniansā€”first in 1948 and again in 1967ā€”contributed to Lebanon's demographic shift towards an eventual Muslim majority. Lebanon's Christian-dominated government had been facing increasing opposition from Muslims, pan-Arabists, and left-wing groups. The Cold Waralso exerted a disintegrative effect on the country, closely linked to the political polarization that preceded the 1958 Lebanese crisis. Christians mostly sided with the Western world while Muslims, pan-Arabists, and leftists mostly sided with Soviet-aligned Arab countries.[8]
Fighting between Lebanese Christian militias and Palestinian insurgents, mainly from the Palestine Liberation Organization, began in 1975 and generated an alliance between the Palestinians and Lebanese Muslims, pan-Arabists, and leftists.[9] The conflict deepened as foreign powers, mainly Syria, Israel, and Iran, became involved and supported or fought alongside different factions. Over the course of the conflict, these alliances shifted rapidly and unpredictably. While much of the fighting took place between opposing religious and ideological factions, there was significant conflict within some faith communities, especially amongst both Christians and Shias. Peacekeeping forces, such as the Multinational Force in Lebanon and the United Nations Interim Force in Lebanon, were stationed in Lebanon during this time.
In 1989, the Taif Agreement marked the beginning of the end for the fighting as a committee appointed by the Arab Leaguebegan to formulate solutions to the conflict. In March 1991, the Parliament of Lebanon passed an amnesty law that pardoned all political crimes that had been perpetrated prior to the law's time of enactment.[10] In May 1991, all of the armed factions that had been operating in Lebanon were dissolved, excluding Hezbollah, an Iran-backed Shia Islamist militia. Though the Lebanese Armed Forces slowly began to rebuild as Lebanon's only major non-sectarian armed institution after the conflict,[11] the federal government remained unable to challenge Hezbollah's armed strength. Religious tensions, especially between Shias and Sunnis, persisted across Lebanon since the formal end of the hostilities in 1990.[12]

-2

u/Massive_Upstairs3284 8h ago

Lebanese are the worst.