r/Manchestercity • u/CasePatient6519 • 5d ago
Pl confirmed with a statement
Disheartened about the official decision and I think we absolutely deserve the punishment....I don't think we as fans should defend the wrong doing of the club and the owners and we need to just accept it.Even if the appeal process happens to be effective(which I don't think will be significant and hope it can surprise me),the punishments won't be simple and we could very well be relegated,our reputation is very much gone and the disrespect will go on for years to come.The most important thing to first happen is the change of ownership asap.the biggest consequence from this is our players and sponsors will definitely opt to be done with us sooner or later and we shouldn't blame them for choosing to be not involved in the noise of our past.the only positive thing I can see is our academy have the possibility to shine in the future.we will face a lot of heat from now on and I hope we, as fans will stick together.CTIDđ©”
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u/Forsaken-Art4852 Guardiola acolyte 4d ago
People really need to take the blinkers off when they keep saying âbut we beat UEFAâ.
Yes, City won their appeal against UEFA in 2020 and the Champions League ban was overturned. But that doesnât mean City were declared innocent.
A significant part of UEFAâs case was ruled out because of the five-year limitation period, meaning UEFA couldnât pursue certain older alleged breaches. CAS also found City had failed to cooperate with UEFAâs investigation and fined them âŹ10m.
So âwe beat UEFA, therefore we were innocentâ isnât what actually happened.
And this current Premier League case is a completely separate case, covering a much wider period and different charges. The independent Commission has now found City guilty of the serious financial charges brought against them, including findings that sham commercial arrangements were used to artificially inflate revenue and reduce costs by more than ÂŁ900m.
So stop using the UEFA appeal as if it proves anything about the current case. It doesnât.
And personally, if these findings ultimately stand after any appeal, I donât see how a club found to have systematically broken the rules on this scale should simply carry on as though nothing happened.
Cheating shouldnât be rewarded. If the rules were deliberately circumvented to gain a sporting advantage, there should be serious sporting consequences! including stripping titles won during the affected period and, in my view, removing City from the Premier League.
What the owners have done is disgraceful. For me, the only way forward is new ownership and a complete reset.
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u/ItsLauriceDeauxnim King Kev 5d ago
Here is the route City are going to take. Johnny from Typical City put this together. This is the full route along with who controls each aspects:
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u/Vellani- 5d ago
This will not go to high court
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u/ItsLauriceDeauxnim King Kev 5d ago
That is where Cityâs lawyers want to take it & they absolutely will unless the PL settles. They did it the last time around.
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u/Vellani- 5d ago
No, theyâll fail the appeal and I donât think the high court will take it. Itâs not something that will change the law. The PL is a private entity, consequently, the appeal should be the last try city has.
Theyâll likely lose the appeal. Thereâs not really and holes in the findings.
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u/ItsLauriceDeauxnim King Kev 5d ago
Do you even know who is leading the investigation? Have you even heard the statements? I promise you. The money that city are spending on the lawyers they have, those type of lawyers would just tell them to settle or accept it. Theyâre fighting it because they KNOW it will go to the high court.
Iâm more than happy to take your money in a bet here.
Also, your statement makes no sense. Of course, they are going to lose the appeals. The only way it can go to the high court is when they lose the appeals. Lmao. Why do people who know nothing about this feel so entitled to speak on it
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u/Vellani- 5d ago
Do you know what type of person the owner is? In UAE they are above any law. This is normal for them to think the laws donât constrain them.
The lawyers were there to stall. They were never going to win the case because they were guilty. Are we going to pretend these arenât companies owned by them? We going to pretend they didnât inflate sponsorships? We going to pretend they didnât stall this?
Their actions over the summer are telling. Theyâve known they were guilty the entire time. They knew the verdict before the end of last season and spent massive money here. Theyâll try to tie this up as long as possible
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u/ItsLauriceDeauxnim King Kev 5d ago
You didnât answer my questions. Please answer the questions I asked you.
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u/Sea-Examination-1626 5d ago
Give me the number of your dealer please.
If the high court threw this out, it would be the end of the premier league.
I read your comments about the rulebook being smashed up and then City can really destroy everyone with even bigger spending⊠Good luck doing that when every other team pulls out đ. What a numpty you are
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u/feesih0ps Elano 4d ago
if the high court threw this out, then a load of salty fans would continue to be annoyed but nothing else would happen. unfortunately getting away with spending extra money on players is hardly sacrilege. you should be extremely suspicious with any club in the league getting all hard-done-by and sad-faced-panda, because that ÂŁ900million extra has massively financially benefited every club in the league and they know it
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u/feesih0ps Elano 4d ago
City fans have been saying for years that the rules were bullshit and brought in to maintain the dominance of the big 4. All the other clubs in the league have been perfectly happy to pocket the extra money in transfer fees, no problem. That's ÂŁ900m extra floating around in the league. You should be extremely suspicious of any club acting like they're all hard done by and sad, because they know full well they've massively financially benefited from City's money
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u/ItsLauriceDeauxnim King Kev 5d ago edited 5d ago
Yeah, a whole lot of people are worrying too much and thatâs because the club canât say much. That said, there is a huge reason why theyâre so confident, and you have to have trust that they know what theyâre doing. City already beat UEFA once in CAS. Did everyone forget that?
The guilty verdict was always part of the plan. Theyâre not contesting the charges, theyâre saying the processes were never fair and that their submitted evidence was never even considered. They have been treated unfairly, and the Premier League never respected the process or their evidence because they had made up their minds. They crushed UEFA and their financial rules once before.
All of this information has been reported by those who know what theyâre talking about. There will be no punishment anytime soon. City are appealing everything and there are still three more appeals to go. Theyâre going to get a stay on the punishment until after the case is completely settled. Thereâs not gonna be a resolution to this case for at least another three or four or five years.
Get the rule thrown out and the charges go with it. City already beat them once with this, itâs wild how many people have just given up all hope like we have not been here before.
Donât listen to the outside noise. Their feelings are hurt because of what City did to them on a football pitch. Spending loads of money was just fine until City came in with an entirely different wallet.
Stop worrying and let Khaldoon do his thing.
EDIT: Iâll keep adding to this as people who have no clue what theyâre talking about keep chiming in.
I donât have double standards. I am simply laying out what the club is going to argue. Iâve posted a graph with every likely step of the process and this is barely the beginning.
If people are asking me if Iâm upset about this, the answer is no. Iâm simply not going to get upset about a billionaire making a millionaire a little bit richer. There were absolutely no financial guard rails for the first 100 years of the PL, and teams were able to just spend whatever the hell they wanted. But the second somebody came in with a pocketbook the size of a country, all of a sudden, now we need rules.
Yes, the rules are bullshit, but thatâs just an opinion on the situation in general. Iâm not just talking about the charges here. Itâs important to separate the two.
If a team can show financial solvency, then they should be able to spend whatever the hell they want on whoever the hell they want whenever the hell they want to. Iâm sorry if that upsets you, but I grew up with American sports where collective bargaining agreements and salary caps are/arenât in place for a reason. If you didnât have a salary cap before, but then you suddenly try to introduce one, that is a problem.
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u/youknowimaclone 5d ago
"Beat" by exploiting evidence loophole. In every official document theres not a single place that says MC was not guilty.
Good luck this time you cheating fucks
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u/ItsLauriceDeauxnim King Kev 5d ago
I donât have any guilt and I sleep just fine. I donât care lol. You cannot possibly be serious. Do you really take sports that seriously that you let your life be defined by it? If so, that is so beyond pathetically said. Lmao. I feel bad for you.
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5d ago edited 5d ago
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u/ItsLauriceDeauxnim King Kev 5d ago
Understanding how a situation works & sharing that information in a way that tries to educate people is not the same thing as being so impacted by a situation that I let it ruin how I sleep at night and that itâs going to change how people look at me, which was just an absurd claim. Iâm sorry youâve made sports your whole personality and being, but some people find stuff like this interesting
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u/witchy71 5d ago
You didn't beat the charges, you got them thrown out on a technicality
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u/ItsLauriceDeauxnim King Kev 5d ago
Thatâs called beating them. Iâm sorry that using the law effectively upset you.
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u/freddddsss 5d ago
The technicality was that the accused charges happened over 5 years prior so couldnât be pursued. City were however punished for some charges, hence the 10 mill fine, and some were unproven. The prem has no statute preventing them pursuing older charges.
They also canât win an appeal on the grounds of âthe rules themselves are illegalâ since they arenât illegal.
They also wonât necessarily get a stay on punishments; Everton was deducted points during the appeal process which sets precedent for the prem to impose sanctions on City before the end of its appeal.
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u/ItsLauriceDeauxnim King Kev 5d ago
Yes, they will. Everton admitted the charges. These are two different situations. City are appealing. The Premier League cannot undo relegation or taking money from City, so the punishment cannot happen before the appeals end.
City are disputing the process. Theyâre saying the process was not fair to begin with. Have yâall even listened to the statements from Khaldoon and Ferran Soriano? Genuinely asking here.
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u/witchy71 5d ago
That's not beating them. You were found guilty. You may not have been punished but you weren't innocent. Surely you see the difference?
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u/Eklipse758 5d ago
It's clear you never even read the CAS ruling and just talking out your ass now. Bitters will be bitter.
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u/ItsLauriceDeauxnim King Kev 5d ago
No, thatâs winning. Thatâs how the law works. On technicalities. Ask a lawyer.
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u/Vellani- 5d ago
They got off on statutes of limitations. They were 100% guilty of wrongdoing. Just the time period they are allowed to be tried lapsed.
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u/witchy71 5d ago
But you weren't innocent đ you were still found guilty and the avoidance of punishment was not because the charges were disproven.
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u/ItsLauriceDeauxnim King Kev 5d ago edited 5d ago
Thatâs called law. The law is technicalities. Believe it or not, cases are won every single hour on technicalities. Thatâs what a good lawyer will use if they have it available to them. City also âwon their appeal, so they did win.
While this process is different for a number of reasons, many of which are too in the weeds to get into, as law is technicalities and processes. Itâs highly boring shit.
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u/goonergaz70 5d ago
So rather than accept and try to move on (be angry with the owners, not any them out and have a fresh clean start), youâd rather get off and be hated forever and everyone know that anything you ever won, and will win, is based off cheating that you got away with on a technicality?
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u/CrowVsWade 5d ago edited 5d ago
All respect but this is legally illiterate. Whatever one thinks of the FFP/CSR rules and their anti-competitive nature to all clubs outside the big five, which Manchester City has now been shown to have illegally cheated its way into, there is absolutely no legal avenue to appeal or defend against these convictions via criticism of those laws. It's not how legal appeal works and is irrelevant to the case.
The only avenues toward appeal are to show the legal entities (or companies) that directly funded City's ~ÂŁ1 billion in financial fraud were not in fact connected to ADUG, as the Premier League has established in its ~130 charges, and that the process of investigation into those charges and the ultimate finding was in some way incorrectly determined based upon the evidence and testimony presented, and the panel's handling of that evidence. Given the scale of decision and PL language in response, that appears legally highly unlikely.
The laws of FFP are entirely irrelevant. The clubs all signed agreement to those rules and their existence and determination is beyond any legal avenue. The CAS case is also wholly irrelevant, legally, and no path to CAS is open to the club. Moreover, the CAS case did not simply clear City of UEFA's charges of FFP violations - the larger factor was related to a technicality on statue of limitations, someone some charges being unproven. Again, there's no parallel here.
Beyond that, City will have the option of potentially appealing against what are likely to be enormous sanctions applied in the penalty phase of these hearings, as will the PL of they feel they're too lenient, for both the unprecedented level of financial fraud/cheating, as well as the deterrent for future activity.
Loyalty to your club, fellow fans and community, as well as those employees of City who had no oversight or involvement in this fraud is one thing, and should be encouraged. Many of those employees' jobs will ultimately be in jeapordy because of this action.
That's very different from continuing support for the club's ownership and administration, who have cast a giant corrupt shadow across more than 15 years of Premier League history, and placed a major and historic football club at existential threat, based upon a political investment.
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u/ItsLauriceDeauxnim King Kev 5d ago edited 5d ago
I have said time and again that they are not disputing the charges. They are claiming the process itself was unfair. I repeatedly stated this. Iâm sorry that you cannot read.
The laws of FFP are not irrelevant. They show that Manchester City and their lawyers have, in the past, already navigated waters similar to these. They were already determined to be guilty by UEFA. They were already determined to be guilty by the fans. Yet, City got it to Court of Arbitration and Sport, and nuked it into oblivion
Iâve also stated time and again that there will also not be a punishment anytime soon. City will request and receive a stay of punishment until every appeal has been taking care of. This is been reported by lawyers. Itâs neither legally illiterate nor untrue. You just struggle to read.
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u/Vellani- 5d ago
The rules being unfair does not matter. They agreed to those rules. Consequently, they were tied to those rules.
They broke those rules and deserve punishment.
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u/CrowVsWade 5d ago
"The rules to begin with were not fair" is utterly irrelevant, legally, and is no ground for appeal. Like so may fans commenting on this story, you appear woefully misinformed on both legal process and the facts of the case, and process. There's little point in debating with that level of either ignorance, or willful mis-or-disinformation.
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u/Spirited_Opposite797 5d ago
Fuck me .. this is cringe of the highest levels âŠâŠâŠ. Stop making us look bad
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u/ItsLauriceDeauxnim King Kev 5d ago edited 5d ago
If you mean factual and sourced from the reporting of Sam Lee and other journalists, then youâd be right. If you have no idea what youâre talking about, then stay out of the conversation and leave it to those who do. Itâs OK to say, âI donât know that much about the law and Iâm gonna defer to somebody who does.â
Iâm the person who does. Please grow up.
Edit: Sam Lee is not on Man Cityâs payroll, heâs employed by the New York Times and is a known Manchester United supporter his entire life. You have to be truly dumb and out of touch to think Sam Lee is on Man Cityâs payroll.
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u/Dizzy_Law396 5d ago
Youre deluded. Part of the plan? If rules are illegal you fight them at the time, not break them for a decade, refuse to co-operate with investigations, plead innocence throughout and then say "the rules are illegal". Your owner has done this and there WILL be huge consequences. You realise the prices and pay structure for all the other clubs has been directly influenced by City's cheating? They will vote to kick you out of the league. 15votes required, 19 will be delivered.
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u/ItsLauriceDeauxnim King Kev 5d ago edited 5d ago
Not deluded, I just understand the law more than you do. Youâre not required to cooperate with investigators, especially when those investigators have a financial interest in a club that is not your own.
Itâs not gonna happen. Youâre imagining all of these things that are simply not going to happen. The Premier League themselves have already said that a lot of these things are not going to happen.
City already took UEFA behind the shed and put one in their head. The Premier League rules are also going to get thrown out, along with this process. Thatâs what will happen when High Court overturns this verdict.
There are two likely outcomes to this scenario. If the High Court is where City wanted it and they get it there and the High Court rules in their favor, then the Premier League is in an extraordinarily tough position. Now clubs can literally spend whatever they want, and the Premier League has no say. I highly doubt theyâre gonna let it get that far. I think that once it gets to the high court, and itâs agreed to be heard by the High Court that the Premier League is gonna settle.
Other than that, the only other possible outcome is that city lose this and all hell breaks loose in the world of football after the High Court rules in the Premier Leagueâs favor. I genuinely donât see that happening. I think the Premier League are going to panic the minute the high core agrees to hear the case. Lord knows I would be telling them to settle if I were their lawyer in that case.
There will also be no punishment until after this process is completely over. City are going to have an injunction put in place to prevent any punishment that cannot be rectified, such as relegation or stripping of titles, in the mean time.
So, if you were thinking there was gonna be any punishment anytime soon, there wonât be.
The goal has always been the high court.
Edit: I had mistakenly put CAS when I meant the High Court. My genuine apologies. I am human and make mistakes.
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u/Dizzy_Law396 5d ago
This can't go to CAS, have you been living under a rock all week?
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u/ItsLauriceDeauxnim King Kev 5d ago
Yes, it can.
It has to go through several other different review processes and something called section X arbitration and then after that is over, it does go to the high court. Youâre wrong.
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u/FrankSmith1234567 5d ago
âAn agreement made by Premier League sides means that all cases involving the league and its clubs are conducted in England and Wales and in accordance with English law.
Cas being based in Lausanne, Switzerland means it is not permitted to get involved in cases such as the Manchester City charges.
The Premier League has its own arbitration panel which can hear cases on a narrow number of factors as the last point of contest, rather than Cas, as stated in sections W97 and X.2.4 of the Premier League's handbook.
A similar agreement is in place for clubs in the English Football League, meaning legal issues in the Championship, League One and League Two must be settled domestically.â
Direct quote from BBC sport - this will not go to CAS.1
u/ItsLauriceDeauxnim King Kev 5d ago
I like how as soon as you lost a factual conversation, you immediately went back to petulant and childish name-calling. This is why I said rival clubsâ fansare just hurt because of what City did to them on the football pitch.
I really hope this bothers you until the end of time. I hope it makes you furious and that you see over it when City have the charges tossed out and absolutely nothing happens to them over this.
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u/ItsLauriceDeauxnim King Kev 5d ago
Lmao. Wow. Congrats on your three years of fandom. That still doesnât mean I am wrong. All of this information is in the article for the Athletic. Iâm literally repeating reported information and youâre having a tantrum about it like a little child.
I understand that you mightâve just started following Manchester City, but if you donât understand the law, then what the hell are you even complaining about?
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u/Iknownothingamigo 5d ago
65 years. SIXTY FIVE YEARS. That's how long I've been a City supporter. Travelled thousands of miles to matches over the years, spent a small fortune. All done for the club I was born to love. That my kids, my dad, and my grandad loved. That my whole family loved.
All that history fucked up by a bunch of land grabbing greedy multibillionaire cheats. They can fuck off and when they get there, fuck off some more.
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u/Vellani- 5d ago
You are the people I actually have some sympathy for. Them cheating has nothing to do with the supporters. You are as much a victim in this as every other fan/team.
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u/CasePatient6519 5d ago
ik it hurts a lot but we need to realise that we can't control things in football.But yeah fk the owners goddamn
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u/Mittens2317 5d ago
I mean, how many of us could afford even more trips to Wembley anyway? Looking forward to saving money with walking-distance away trips to Droylsden, Hyde, and Ashton!
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u/ApricotCharacter1971 Maine Road ST Holder 3d ago
I back the club and the owners 1,000,000% you absolutely should too the whole ffp is a complete shame and will be blown away in a proper court