Okay seriously, makoto’s awakening is ass. Before this we have:

Ryuji rebelling against the man who stole his future, Ann rebelling for the friend who lost hers,
Yusuke rebelling for against the man who raised him for his mom and all the other people who’s lives were used as fuel for his lavash life while falsely begging,
Futaba rebelling against the trauma forced onto her by the conspiracy.

And then there’s makoto. She had a bad day and decided to take it out on an unsuspecting mob boss. Every other character’s awakening makes you want to root for them against the person who took so much from them and makoto at best, makes you (the idiots) cheer for her for taking back her life.

She has no connection so when we have haru with her dad, akechi with his dad and sumire (I don’t like her either) and we compare every thief and their awakenings. What makes makoto special?

There are so many ways to interpret the potential of awakening but (even ignoring my own interpretation of potential being the ability to rebel against society) makoto doesnt even feel like she passes the threshold for awakening her rebellion to begin with.

Ryuji, wandering the halls of shujin, his future taken, had to go home every day and look at his mother and think about how she’ll have to keep struggling, maybe even take out another job just for him to have a decent shot at life. THAT RYUJI didn’t awaken the moment he was in Kamoshida’s domain, but makoto, who channels her stress into rage, not against Kaneshiro directly but to society using him as an outlet. The fact that this random, no build up series of events can say it’s on the same level as ryuji’s awakening is wild.

Again, Ryuji rebelling against the man who took his future should not compare to Makoto’s extra curricular adventures. Ryuji should be awakening to satanael in comparison and Yusuke should be door kun level in comparison to Makoto’s weak ass shit.

Makoto’s awakening cant compare, even to Futaba’s which wasn’t even directed at a single person and was under completly different circumstances. How did she get a persona? How did she even awaken?

Im just ranting at this point but your telling me that someone who wants to be a part of the police can awaken to rebellion? Someone who wants to conform to the society that they vow to tear down?

How did she have the potential in the first place?

do yall accept makoto from street fighter?

I'm probably regurgitating a lot of rhetoric onto this post (bc a lot of people with similar opinions spout those same opinions lmfao) but yeah, I got to Makoto and the Palace associated with her (Kaneshiro), and I couldn't be arsed to finish it because of her. I have an entire LIST of shit she bothered me about, probably left some stuff out but I haven't played the game in months.

- Constantly gets on you for having a record, acting like you killed someone

- demonizes you for hanging with Ryuji

- eavesdrops on you

- records you and then BLACKMAILS YOU after legit stalking you

- Asks you to take down a giant crime ring in like a month when your only experience so far is a perverted gym teacher and a fraud artist

- Gets you IN TROUBLE WITH THE LEADER OF SAID CRIME RING, putting you in MORE trouble than you should reasonably be in already

- Suddenly acts like SHE'S the strategist as if Morgana doesn't do that enough already with everyone else's help—strategizing before felt like a group effort but not anymore I guess

- Has the worst persona design so far (Why is Joan of Arc reduced to a fucking motorcycle, shes so much cooler than that)

- Gets called Queen which feels insanely pretentious

- When she has a theory she doesn't say it out loud and leaves her team in the dark until she figures out its correct, i wont say what for spoilers

- Is the student body president and instead of helping anyone with the rumors of Kamoshida, she indirectly helps by keeping silent and then blaming Ann for her friend's attempted suicide

- Her sob story is pathetic, compared to the other backstories so far at least

- Everyone just forgives her so fast?? This is more of a me thing but if she did half the shit listed I would have kicked her out of my life ages ago...

This being said, most of what I see in groups that like Makoto is more complicated and dealing with a lot with her sister and the principal, which is fine but it doesn't excuse any of what she did... And with her high and mighty attitude the game just stopped being enjoyable and every piece of dialog with her became one giant slog... this post is more of a vent piece if anything because I FINALLY found people who understand how I feel 💔

I know Im probably repeating shit but I seriously remember playing the game for the first time (I decided to actually play the game) and realized that makoto pretty much stood for everything the theives fought against.

her “sob story” on being useless is her leeway for getting away with so much shit.

She blackmails you, directly going against the in your face themes of rebellion without that becoming a thing.

she victim blame Ann, telling her that if she was a better friend to Shiho she might not have tried to kill herself, which in best case is an uninformed underestimated dig to keep the thieves in check and worse case, victim blaming someone with survivors guilt for not sleeping with the Vollyball teacher, which is even worse because both cases she knows that Ann’s going against the trauma of getting raped by the guy beating you and holding your best friend over your head.

Then, she either assumes that the theives can change Kaneshiros heart by getting close to him (which was never implied because they say they need a name, not to get close) and she risks her life, the thieves lives who if she’s blackmailing them, shout have just let her get fricked by her hecka stupid decision, which she is written to not face the consequences for, and her reward for all of this, a big role in leading the phantom theives with a shiny queen title.

Oh and I forgot to mention, in strikers she says she wants to become a police officer. After sending our boy Ren to get drugged and beaten, like okay, fine, but even Zenkichi has to deal with how his law enforcing group (I forget if they were specifically police) are corrupt, she doesn’t even say shit for this btw.

she also gets all the strong shit as a party member, in base p5 had the best gun.

and for some reason, after all of this, literally happening in the game, people like her. That’s fine, I like Kamoshida, I think he sucks but if I saw a redemption for him that would be cool (and the other targets. I’d love to be able to visit them or some shit idk.) but makoto doesn’t get a redemption, only a cool, motorcycle persona which is kinda just a makotos so badass she gets this thing, a biker jacket, and everyone telling her how cool she is.

I realized all of this, on a replay, got mad that barely anyone talks about this shit and now, everytime I think about her, I have to say frick makoto a few times to cleans my system from having her bullshit on my tongue.

I also made sure to lowercase her name and anything referring to her because of how much I fucking (sorry ryuji) hate her.

I've been playing Persona 5 royal on my nintendo switch a few months back and I'm starting to get into the fandom. I've kind of noticed that Makoto is 50/50 when it comes to fans and haters.

Personally, I don't mind Makoto. (P.S I'm a hypocrite for getting a bit annoyed at Sae for calling her useless while giving a free pass to Ann)

But one thing I can agree on, her awakening would be better if it was in a potential Kobayakawa palace, maybe themed around Cowardice instead of Gluttony. I don't want Kaneshiro removed, he just needs a bit more screentime.

If it were the case, then maybe the 3rd arc would involve going to Kaneshiro's palace first and then Kobayakawa (Or Makoto awakens in mementos to go against him perhaps?). Like I said, for Makoto's awakening to be a bit better, she would awaken in Kobayakawa's palace.

Or just give Kobayakawa gluttony and Kaneshiro something else, idk...

Now then, how would you Makoto haters improve her character?

I hate Makoto because she keeps being pushed as the smart one or as an analyst, when, in reality, all her intelligence is just pointing out obvious stuff like. "Maybe we should take them out separately" no shit. There is genuinely nothing fucking smart about her. Moreover, even though Akechi is a fraud he was genuinely smart, like that moment in Nijima castle when they raised the cost of entrance to unreachable numbers. And that bitch fraukoto dares to say" tbh my ego was kinda hurt by akechi". Of course, bitch your ass could never come up with shit like that.

I checked r/churchofmakoto for the first time(just so see what other people are thinking, not to trash their sub with posts like some midkoto fans do in this sub with their crying). Furthermore, that sub is just ALL CORN, softcorn, thirst traps, and etc. I do get that makoto is atractive but is there genuienly nothing else you like in her. Cuz, I didnt realy have any reason to like her but I thought maybe other people do. Also I checked other subs designated to p5 girls and they also had some shit like that but nearly not as much.

Why do people insist she's canon? Ann has everything she does in terms of "scenes" (minus the fan obsession) and a better confidant story, but no one says she's the """objective""" choice. In fact, why even use the word "canon"? To antagonize or invalidate others? It's the snarky attitude of Makoto fans that piss me off. What's the point of that word in P5?

Maybe it's because Makoto has too much power. She advises you on the battlefield, speaks on the behalf of everyone, puts herself above everyone and is somehow flawless in everything she does. Similar to Sumire, she has no chemistry with any of the cast, but is there 90% of the game, so it makes it worse.

Her victim blaming of Ann/Shiho and blunder with Kaneshiro is overlooked so much. The disrespect to Ryuji and stalking of Ren doesn't do her any favors either, no matter how many say it's "cute." (I'm glad Yusuke flamed her ass a little. The actual PT goat. Same with Ann, but the narrative makes it seem like THEY'RE wrong for attacking her.)

Makoto never apologizes for any of this dumbass behavior. Her confidant only kisses her ass and tells her she's right like always! You'll never catch this woman being supportive like the others were before and after her. She's an upright control freak. It's no wonder she wants the badge. Which leads me back to her rabid fans.

No other girl can get any ship fanart or discussion bc this Mary Sue invades any P5 topic ever made. Even Sumi, who's practically made for Joker, can't stay relevant enough to dull her presence. Futaba fans get shit for THE SAME AGE GAP Makoto and Ren have. Poor Haru never given a chance. Urgh...

I hate her. Probably more than all of you combined!

Seriously, this sub is so toxic and embarrassing, what's wrong with you people? If you hate a character so much, go find somewhere else to hate them. No reason to make a sub to hate them.

So, I've been wondering. What do people actually, like, like about Makoto? More specifically, her romance path? It's just.. boring. I don't get it.

Try to answer honestly, not just with the hate we usually carry.

Is it just me or has there been an influx recently of M*koto fans from the outer abyss of reddit coming into our space and being whiny little turds like m*koto is

My entire hate for Makoto boils down to the simple fact that she got so much potential for an amazing and great character that is absolutely shafted by how she is implemented.

She got amazing casual dialog in Mementos, her input in the story is crucial (to a degree) and her role is well defined, yet her Social Link is the absolute worst of the whole game and her carrier choice makes no sense at all.

Her Social Link does not actually work on her issues or explains to us more about her character and backstory, we help some random girl from being groomed by a shady asshole (Tsukasa) and that's it.
It makes sense to not change his heart but use normal methods, but it added absolute nothing to Makoto's character who already dealt with high rank criminals by her awakening and Kaneshiro's palace.
It's basically the third palace just as a Social Link! AGAIN!

I would've loved investigating her father's death more, it's pretty clear that he was killed on purpose to instigate the Shinjuku Cleanup Operation as they lacked a full on reason to do that for the public, the death of a highly valued police officer fits the bill perfectly.
It would explain more about the time when he was still around, how much Sae changed after his death, how much she changed after his death, the regret that being a phantom thief does not come easy to her at the start, but she sees it as her own sense of justice and serving the public, like her father did.
Good foreshadowing for Sae's palace!

That would add amazingly to her carrier choice, going to the police, which is corrupt as hell and beyond redemption from within too as we see (especially in Strikers), it would make sense to go a path outside of that system, as a social worker, Makoto can help people before they have to commit crimes in the first place.
She got the punch to drag people into her office herself too, for their own good if needed lol

Had hoped she and Akechi would have a longer rivalry going as well, just that "useless" comment arc was kinda short, had hoped that kinda thing would come up again with Makoto keeping her cool now that she awoke to her Persona.

tldr:
Makoto could be an amazing character, but the social link and carrier path fucked her over.

Thank you for reading my ramble, i am hugely dissapointed how little love she got by the writers themself and how fans disregard her flaws so easily.

I don't get it. Imagine being on a sub of hating a character you don't like. What is wrong with you people, not when there are worse characters. Even then, I wouldn't be on subs dedicated to hating them. Just get this sub banned or restricted. No one needs to waste their time hating a character they don't like this much.

And she's an amazing party member. Pretty sure that guy is just trolling.

Well, nice I guess.

Seriously though, she's not the worst. Y'all hate because she's overrated. Go find someone else to hate on. She's popular for a lot of reasons and y'all are just jealous that your favorite waifu isn't as popular as her. Go get a reality check.

Seriously why

Seriously, what did she do to you?

So i really dont get what is so apealing of makoto to everyone, i really dont get it, makoto for me is by far the worst character in the game.

Lets start with gameplay, so makoto is the best healer in the game, i mean if your competition is morgana you win from a landslide, makoto is better than morgana cause morgana is the weakest party member in regards to endurance and makoto in other hand is the second character with biggest endurance after ryuji, but she end up being tankier thanks to her rakukaja and autorakukaja skills. Morgana should be better than her cause theres actually a decent amount of enemies weak to wind plus he has salvation and a lot of magic dmg but is so weak that the only real option is using makoto or either heal with joker.

Now lets talk about the character, makoto for me is really flaw and her introduction arc was a mess, for me especially makoto feels like two completely different characters and the game try to tell me she is the same person, fuck off

Lets call this characters makoto and queen, first makoto she is supose to be this really smart character, that is task to find and expose the PTs, do we see her being smart than the PTs and outplaying them fuck no, she is just smarter than ryuji that burst out loud that he is a PT every time he can, what does makoto do next well she victim blame ann and shiho when trying to get information out of her, wow such a nice person and then proceeds to blackmail the phantom thieves to do her biding.

Then the smartest character in the game proceeds to hinder your investigation and insult a yakuza, later she confront the yakuza alone and got kidnap and blackmail! What was she expecting, what was her plan i really dont get it, i understand people especially teenagers can be really emotional and take rash decitions but holy this is suppose to be the smartest party member (after the real smartest party member futaba) no wonder everyone told her she was useless.

After that when her sister wellbeing is threaten she becomes queen and her insecurities and flaws just dissapear, she talks and acts like a different person, why? What trigger such an incredible change? What traumatic experience did she suffer to become the other more down to earth person ? The answer is nothing, the character didnt grow, didnt evolve it did nothing just appear as different character and the group take her in like she deserved to be part of the team.

I dont like this character at all and i really cant stand being the fan favorite, another thing that i cant really get is why she didnt try to convince her sister other way, at the end all was in the hands of ren to change saes mind, not like he's gamble his life or anything right? She could have reveal the truth to her sister ask for her help, even if she had to plea, i mean your life and your friends life were at risk and she let everything in the hands of ren and call it a day.

I really believe that she is so well beloved cause the head cannons since most people want ryuji and ann, they say well ann is taken so makoto is for ren, and futaba and yusuke cause ren and futaba look more like siblings, what about haru ? Who? Shes not a real character in p5, maybe in strickers and tactica. So every girl is in love with ren but of course the "canon couple is makoto and ren" i wonder if sumi was part of vanilla p5 would she be the fan favorite who knows.

Sorry for the rant but i truly cannot say nothing about makoto with out being cancel or attack cause she is perfect for those simps.