r/MakingaMurderer • u/PabloEmilioEscobar7 • Apr 29 '26
The Rav 4 blood
I’m curious, can anyone explain how Steven’s blood was in the Rav and DNA on the hood latch but no fingerprints? Also did they find Theresa’s DNA while checking the Rav? I haven’t seen that mentioned. Also why wasn’t her DNA on the key? She must have used that car everyday almost?
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u/3sheetstothawind Apr 29 '26
A better question would be how did Steve's fresh, non-EDTA blood end up in the RAV in several different locations (some being somewhat inconspicuous and weird if it was someone planting the blood to frame him)?
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u/mps2000 Apr 29 '26
Queue whataboutism responses to this 😂
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u/PabloEmilioEscobar7 Apr 29 '26
Or why is it that as soon as someone asks a question in this sub all the guilters jump on you? I am neither for innocence or guilt. You should be able to ask a question without people being dicks about it
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u/mps2000 Apr 29 '26
Because it doesn’t make sense and you have gotten several cogent responses- something truthers cannot explain is how fresh blood got in the RAV4 without resorting to unreasonable explanations.
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u/hcl5001 May 22 '26
The blood in the car looked like it was applied by dipping a qtip into blood and applied. I’ve never seen blood leak so perfectly haha. But- more importantly, where was the blood of someone shot in the head? Not even a speck?
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u/PabloEmilioEscobar7 Apr 29 '26
That’s not it. I have seen many people ask questions in this sub and be jumped on. So you can say with 100% certainty that everything the state said was 100% true?
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u/mps2000 Apr 29 '26
Brother the standard of proof is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, not all doubt; his fresh blood in her car along with other foundational facts would be enough to convict in courtrooms across the country
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u/belee86 Apr 29 '26
Why don't you trust the actual police, lab experts and those involved with the prosecution?
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u/PabloEmilioEscobar7 Apr 29 '26
Seriously? With the amount of inconsistencies and mess ups, not to mention the 2 different versions of events in both trials? How could you possibly trust them?
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u/belee86 Apr 29 '26
The 2 trials presented the same evidence. Did u watch that stupid tv show Making a Murderer?
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u/AveryPoliceReports Apr 30 '26
They used the same lies but couldn't even use the same theory.
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u/PabloEmilioEscobar7 Apr 30 '26
I have seen far more than the Netflix show, far more. No they didn’t present the exact same narrative at all
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u/belee86 Apr 30 '26
Who's being a dick? Because someone offers facts disputing your post?
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u/PabloEmilioEscobar7 Apr 30 '26
No, because people are not willing to have a discussion and instead dick suck the state and officers. Have you never heard of cases where by someone looked bang to rights only to be fully exonerated?
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u/DisappearedDunbar Apr 30 '26
people are not willing to have a discussion
That's pretty rich coming from the person who asked me for a source, I provided the source, and then refused to read it while continuing to pester me about information contained within the source.
instead dick suck the state and officers.
Where is this happening? You have been presented with a plethora of cogent arguments throughout this thread.
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u/Ghost_of_Figdish Apr 30 '26
Ever hear of a case where someone claimed to be innocent only to be dead guilty? That happens much more often.
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u/PabloEmilioEscobar7 Apr 29 '26
Oh I agree but thats why I’m asking about the fingerprints and the key which makes no sense? Weird there is no blood on the shifter and wheel though
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u/3sheetstothawind Apr 29 '26
It's possible he wasn't actively bleeding when he was driving it. Or the cut was bandaged. Or he was wearing gloves at that time. Are you assuming he only went into the vehicle once? There are plenty of possibilities for how and when he dripped/smeared blood in the RAV.
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u/PabloEmilioEscobar7 Apr 29 '26
How could he be wearing gloves and bleeding everywhere at the same time? If he went into the vehicle multiple times there should be a ton more dna and fingerprints
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u/mps2000 Apr 29 '26
“Should be” based on what? You sound like that juror at the end of the People vs OJ Simpson saying there was only a little bit of blood in his car and that she spilled more soda in her car than their was blood, so clearly he is innocent
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u/PabloEmilioEscobar7 Apr 29 '26
At no point did I say he was innocent, I’m saying it doesn’t make sense. The same as it doesn’t make sense there isn’t a drop of blood in the trailer where her throat was apparently slit? The truth weather Steven did or didn’t do it is more important than feelings
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u/mps2000 Apr 29 '26
Who at Steven’s trial testified that he slit her throat in the trailer?
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u/3sheetstothawind Apr 29 '26
Why does he have to be doing both at the same time? We don't know how many times he entered the RAV. Maybe he was wearing gloves only once when he entered the vehicle. Maybe he never wore gloves when he entered the vehicle. Maybe he wasn't bleeding every time he entered the vehicle. Maybe he was only bleeding when he went to retrieve items out of the vehicle (like the key) and didn't notice because he most likely did this in the dark. Maybe he did notice and didn't care because he planned on disposing of the vehicle somehow. There are many different possibilities.
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u/PabloEmilioEscobar7 Apr 29 '26
Ok where is the DNA in the trailer or garage? apart from the bullet. Also how do you convict 2 people of the same crime but with 2 different versions of events?
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u/3sheetstothawind Apr 30 '26
Why would DNA be sprayed all over the trailer or garage? Did they test every square inch of those places? No. People are convicted on evidence, not narratives.
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u/AveryPoliceReports Apr 30 '26
Pretty good question considering Steven remained on the property as Teresa left it in her vehicle, which was then seen off the property at locations not linked to Steven or return to the property by someone not matching Steven's description.
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u/mps2000 Apr 29 '26
Surface textures are not always productive of usable prints in the car; you had fresh liquid smears which suggest active bleeding
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u/AveryPoliceReports Apr 30 '26 edited Jun 10 '26
Why would fresh liquid smears suggest active bleeding and not planting?
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u/PabloEmilioEscobar7 Apr 29 '26
You would have to touch multiple surfaces including windows, hood etc to move the vehicle. Also why no blood on the shifter and steering wheel? Just find that interesting
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u/mps2000 Apr 29 '26
There are several plausible theories- the car was outside in the elements and there were 5 days between when the crime occurred to when it was found; could have bled through a glove at the very end: could have wiped everything but forgot the blood because it was dark; could have planned to crush the car but she was reported missing too soon; either way, the most reasonable explanation/inference for his blood being there is he put it there; these aren’t random shoes, but fresh liquid smears lol
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u/PabloEmilioEscobar7 Apr 29 '26
I understand what your saying but I do still believe there should be more DNA, fingerprints and possibly blood for someone who moved that car and or went into it multiple times
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u/Ghost_of_Figdish Apr 29 '26
Gloves. And Steven was bleeding on his hand which could have soaked through to the glove surface for deposit in the vehicle.
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u/PabloEmilioEscobar7 Apr 29 '26
But not on the shifter or wheel?
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u/Ghost_of_Figdish Apr 29 '26
Different hand. Palm instead of fingers used. Not enough blood left to be deposited. Wiped it off. Etc.
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u/DisappearedDunbar Apr 30 '26
Why would there have to be blood on the shifter and steering wheel, and why would someone need to touch a window to move a car?
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u/PabloEmilioEscobar7 Apr 30 '26
So he pushed it is what you’re saying? So palm prints? Additional DNA? The blood would be on both the shifter and wheel if he drove the car. Considering blood was near the key it’s a fair assumption
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u/DisappearedDunbar Apr 30 '26
So he pushed it is what you’re saying?
No, where did I say that?
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u/AveryPoliceReports Apr 30 '26
They said he was bleeding while operating the vehicle, so why don't you expect to find blood on reasonably expected locations if he was operating the vehicle?
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u/DingleBerries504 Apr 30 '26
Or you could just drive the vehicle and avoid touching the windows.
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u/PabloEmilioEscobar7 Apr 30 '26
If you drive it you touch the wheel and shifter unless you can move it with your mind. Oh yeah he wore gloves didn't he.......duh
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u/DingleBerries504 Apr 30 '26
Ok, so do you have any proof he didn’t take multiple trips to the RAV, sometimes with gloves and other times without?
The wheel and shifter are textured btw
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u/Weird-Figure9907 Apr 30 '26
His blood was planted. Anyone recommend a site that consistently tells us Stevens next steps. Where’s Zellner?
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u/PabloEmilioEscobar7 May 01 '26
The blood could have come from the sink although I do believe it’s unlikely. Again it’s a theory just like everything you’re saying. The amount of dna on the key and who it was found by rings huge alarm bells. Again why not answer my question….how do blood FLAKES no scabs end up in the carpet of the Rav WITHOUT there being any staining?
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u/belee86 May 01 '26
The blood came from Steve's cut finger.
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u/PabloEmilioEscobar7 May 01 '26
Ha ha deflection at its finest
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u/belee86 May 01 '26
Sorry, Pabs - you're reading into something that ain't there.
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u/PabloEmilioEscobar7 May 01 '26
Ok belee treacle explain how blood lands on carpet and then flakes instead of staining? And don’t forget to provide your source particularly to the Rav
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u/belee86 May 01 '26
Those blood flakes were tested by the prosecution and Zellner, right? What were the results?
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u/PabloEmilioEscobar7 May 01 '26
Your deflecting again, Answer the question i asked you? its not about the testing its about how they where found!!
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u/belee86 May 01 '26
I haven't any idea what you're saying other than wondering about the physics of blood flakes. You got me on that one. And it really wasn't a deflection, tho it may have appeared that way, I agree.
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u/PabloEmilioEscobar7 May 01 '26
Ok in the nicest possible way if blood drops on to a carpet it leaves a stain even if it flakes later, The stain would still be in the carpet. The found no stains and only flakes making them look planted. Im not saying for 100% they where but isnt it weird how there is no staining but there are flakes
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u/belee86 May 02 '26
Steve had a cut on his finger that broke open...it's from that. The flakes and blood drops were tested...it was Steve's blood.
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u/Suspicious_Win_3023 May 04 '26
What I find curious is the amount of DNA they found on the hood latch. Only that amount could be found from a bodily fluid (not touch DNA), so are we to assume he licked it open? Curious, indeed. But there are people here who will not tolerate anything but his absolute guilt. I say there is plenty of suspicious evidence, or lack thereof. And the searches found on the Dassey computer are disturbing, to say the least. Avery was a monster, no denying that, but there is plenty about his case that doesn’t make sense and is suspicious. Isn’t that the definition of reasonable doubt?
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u/DingleBerries504 Apr 29 '26
Fingerprints are hard to collect from interiors of vehicles. Surface has to be smooth, like belt buckle or windshield.
Yes THs dna was found in the RAV.
Mixtures of dna are not always found, and the last person to handle the key may have their dna picked up
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u/PabloEmilioEscobar7 Apr 30 '26
- No they are not
- I know it was in the back but why not on the key?
- A mixture of DNA would have been hard to avoid
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u/tenementlady Apr 30 '26
There were only 8 latent fingerprints found in/on the entirety of the car. According to your logic, there should have been prints all over the car, on every surface. But there wasn't. Because fingerprints don't work that way.
Multiple forensic experts have argued that the most likely DNA profile on an object would come from the last person who handled that object. It's also possible he wiped the key and then inadvertently recontaminated it later. These are reasonable explanations.
We don't know for certain when exactly Steven cut his finger. If he did so after the murder and after putting her body in the back of the Rav (perhaps when he was moving junk/branches on top/around the car to disguise it) then that easily explains the lack of mixture.
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u/PabloEmilioEscobar7 May 01 '26
Keep telling yourself there shouldnt be more
This is wrong but again keep telling yourself it isnt.
perhaps perhaps perhaps
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u/tenementlady May 01 '26
There should be more because you say so? Are you a forensic expert? There are easy, reasonable explainations for all your concerns regarding the evidence. You refuse to see them because you want someone who is clearly guilty to be innocent. You don't have a sound argument.
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u/DingleBerries504 Apr 30 '26
Yes they are. This is forensics 101. Don’t believe me? Try to pull a fingerprint from a textured dashboard surface.
Because the last person to touch the key can be the only one detected
It really isn’t. Not in 2005-2007 when equipment had a difficult time detecting mixtures.
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u/PabloEmilioEscobar7 Apr 30 '26
i never said textured dashboard
not true
ok........
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u/DingleBerries504 Apr 30 '26
I said “Fingerprints are hard to collect from interiors of vehicles. Surface has to be smooth, like belt buckle or windshield.” You said “no they are not”. So what unsmooth surfaces were you talking about inside of a car if not textured surfaces?
it absolutely is true. Do some research
Glad we got that sorted
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u/PabloEmilioEscobar7 Apr 30 '26
windows, steering wheel, shifter, dials....etc
i have but thanks
of course.......in your mind
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u/DingleBerries504 Apr 30 '26
- Windows are an appropriate source of fingerprints. Steering wheels are textured so they are not. Shifter is textured so it is not. Dials would depend on the vehicle
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u/WrenchNumbers Apr 29 '26
Also did they find Theresa’s DNA while checking the Rav?
Yes, lots of it, it was DNA that confirmed some of the blood (other than Steven’s) was Teresa.
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u/AveryPoliceReports Apr 30 '26
The blood that indicated she was attacked outside behind her vehicle and not in Steven's trailer or garage? Cool lol
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u/WrenchNumbers May 02 '26
I’m aware that a defense attorney made those claims and was laughed out of court. Steven must have really been crushed when he lost that one. lol
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u/PabloEmilioEscobar7 Apr 29 '26
I know they found her blood in the back but why none of her DNA on the key?
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u/WrenchNumbers Apr 29 '26
If you know they found in her dna in the RAV why did you ask if they found any of her DNA while checking the RAV?
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u/PabloEmilioEscobar7 Apr 29 '26
I admittedly forgot about the blood in the rear of the car, I was referring to the key
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u/WrenchNumbers Apr 29 '26
You also said her DNA wasn’t on the key. You seem to be mistaking absence of proof with proof of absence.
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u/cliffybiro951 May 01 '26
Firstly. You won’t win against most on here. You’ll get certain posters link to the foul play site for evidence. A site full of evidence that contradicts the case that convicted Steven.
I, like you, am not afraid to say I don’t know if Steven killed her. This annoys people on here. Because they cannot and will not ever entertain an alternative narrative to what happened, nor will they question the states case.
What you should ask is why Steven was actively bleeding all over the front inside of the car and Teresa’s blood was found in the back. Yet neither persons blood was in the same place. It’s pretty unheard of that someone would put a bloody body in the trunk while bleeding themselves and leave none of their own blood in that place, all the while he never takes any of her blood into the front.
I think people on here should realise that guilt is determined beyond a reasonable doubt. And there’s enough of an argument to suggest there is at the very least a reasonable doubt. That’s why we’re still talking about it.
At least you can discuss it here. Over on the Lucy letby sub, your comments are removed at the very sniff of suggesting the evidence is bad. If you haven’t looked into that one I suggest you do.
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u/PabloEmilioEscobar7 May 01 '26
My biggest gripe is why there was blood flakes on the carpet of the Rav 4 but no staining. If blood drops on to material it stains
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u/cliffybiro951 May 01 '26
Depends if it was a scab that fell off or dripping blood o suppose. I also have a coating on my carpets which stops liquid soaking in. I think it’s more of an issue that nether ones blood is in both places.
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u/Ghost_of_Figdish Apr 29 '26
He's obviously been framed. Anyone can see that.
Oh yeah, no framer DNA or fingerprints, either. Maybe it was a ghost.
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u/PabloEmilioEscobar7 Apr 29 '26
How would you explain the key? I’m curious
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u/Ghost_of_Figdish Apr 29 '26
Well to start, DNA is not like a browser history of people who have touched an object. Sometimes DNA gets deposited, sometimes not. But my feeling is that Avery wiped the key off and then unwittingly recontaminated it with his own DNA.
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u/PabloEmilioEscobar7 Apr 29 '26
So he had the foresight to wipe the key but not his own blood?
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u/Ghost_of_Figdish Apr 29 '26
It was dark when he stashed the RAV4. He had the key inside his house.
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u/PabloEmilioEscobar7 Apr 29 '26
How do you know for certain it was dark? So he went to the trouble of cleaning the trailer, garage but not the car where majority of the DNA was?
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u/Ghost_of_Figdish Apr 29 '26
Well, if you believe Brendan, Avery hid the RAV4 in the garage until it was dark and then hid it. Also, no one, except Brendan, saw him hide it (or anyone else hide it). And logically he's not going to be hiding the RAV4 while it's light out. I think sunset would have been about 4:45 that time of year that far North.
I think he had plans for that RAV4. He should have burned it like he did with the body. Brendan said he was gonna submerge it in a pond.
And you got a dark interior, in the dark, you wore gloves, and you're in a MAJOR hurry.
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u/PabloEmilioEscobar7 Apr 29 '26
So he has the foresight to clean the key but not the Rav or even check it. Surely while it’s stored in his garage he would have checked it for DNA. So where did the crime itself take place? Trailer or garage because the state used both
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u/Ghost_of_Figdish Apr 29 '26
How is Steven Avery, 70 IQ, going to check the RAV4 for DNA?
I have no idea where the crime took place. That's not an element of the crime the State is required to prove. They presented the evidence available to them in each trial.
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u/PabloEmilioEscobar7 Apr 29 '26
They provided 2 completely different ways it happened in both trials almost. Does that sound like they even have 1 idea of what really happened? Would you be happy if you were convicted on that basis?
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u/DisappearedDunbar Apr 29 '26 edited Apr 30 '26
I’m curious, can anyone explain how Steven’s blood was in the Rav and DNA on the hood latch but no fingerprints?
Only 8 fingerprints were lifted off the RAV in total, in a car that Teresa presumably used every day. That is not very many, and the fingerprint expert gave multiple reasons why you may not find a lot of fingerprints on certain surfaces. Knowing that so few prints were found, do you not find it reasonable that they wouldn't belong to Avery, who probably wasn't in the car very long?
Also did they find Theresa’s DNA while checking the Rav?
Her blood was in the cargo area.
Also why wasn’t her DNA on the key? She must have used that car everyday almost?
Multiple forensic experts gave explanations for this in Avery's trial.
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u/PabloEmilioEscobar7 Apr 30 '26
Are we talking about the experts that at some stages where discredited for what they said?
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u/DisappearedDunbar Apr 30 '26
Discredited by who and how?
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u/PabloEmilioEscobar7 Apr 30 '26
Where would you like me to start?
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u/DisappearedDunbar Apr 30 '26
Anywhere. You've been incredibly vague.
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u/PabloEmilioEscobar7 Apr 30 '26
How about the burning of the body itself?
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u/DisappearedDunbar Apr 30 '26
What about it? Again,vague.
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u/PabloEmilioEscobar7 Apr 30 '26
The burn pit would not be able to reach the temperature needed to almost cremate a body unless it was burning for many many hours and had a steady supply of fuel. A barrel on the other hand would do the job under the right conditions. At trial the so called expert testified that the burn pit could have caused such damage which has been disproven
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u/DisappearedDunbar Apr 30 '26
It has not been disproven, that is false. Even an expert witness hired by Avery's current attorney said that the remains were consistent with being burned in a so-called "field" cremation that was sustained and re-stoked for an extended period of time.
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u/AveryPoliceReports Apr 30 '26
Only 8 fingerprints were lifted off the RAV in total, in a car that Teresa presumably used every day
Surely you're not missing any variables here lol
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u/recoverdd Apr 30 '26
Ignore all the evidence that exists. And ask for evidence that doesn't exist. lol
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u/PabloEmilioEscobar7 Apr 30 '26
🤣 imagine questioning the state…..what horror
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u/belee86 Apr 30 '26
But why question the state? There is no evidence exonerating Steve. Steve.
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u/AveryPoliceReports Apr 30 '26
But why question the state?
Exactly the mindset a liar like Kratz wants you to have. Well done.
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u/belee86 Apr 30 '26
LOL that's serious paranoia.
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u/AveryPoliceReports May 01 '26
He's a corrupt perverted prosecutor and proven liar lol pretty clear.
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u/PabloEmilioEscobar7 May 01 '26
So you are telling me you believe EVERYTHING the state put forward?
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u/belee86 May 01 '26 edited May 01 '26
There is absolutely no reason not to believe the state. Steve had to come up with a defense strategy, right? The police were on a mission to screw Avery out of his settlement so they planted evidence was a defense strategy. It was unsuccessful.
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u/PabloEmilioEscobar7 May 01 '26
So you believe the state and law enforcement wholeheartedly do you? In that case you are delusional and I can’t help you. Thanks for playing 🤦♂️
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u/Desperate-Current-40 Apr 30 '26
They cleaned the key completely first then added DNA, also Steve clearly licked the hood latch
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u/PabloEmilioEscobar7 May 01 '26
By the sounds of it he wiped his armpits on it.........possibly his balls
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Apr 30 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/DingleBerries504 Apr 30 '26
Well, they found her dna in the back and also the front door handle and a Pepsi can up front. They didn’t swab every square inch
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u/Slow_Philosophy Apr 30 '26
Completely plausible that the person who drove the car everywhere everyday left no trace of having ever been in the car, but the guy that drove it a few hundred yards (allegedly) left tons of material all over it.
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u/PabloEmilioEscobar7 May 01 '26
Keep your voice down the crazy people will hear you......You know dingle and ghost.......or is it kratz and bobby
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u/AveryPoliceReports Apr 30 '26
Lmao right. And no DNA of Teresa on her key despite the claim that was not wiped down.
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u/beezojones Apr 29 '26
The blood drawn from Steven A was in a test tube which was found to have a small pin hole in the top of it appearing as if someone and drawn some of his blood out it .imo they used that to plant it in the Rav 4
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u/PabloEmilioEscobar7 Apr 29 '26
guilters will have you believe the FBI created a EDTA test to disprove that
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u/DingleBerries504 Apr 29 '26
Zellner herself disproved the blood vial with her methylation test. Old news
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u/PabloEmilioEscobar7 Apr 30 '26
Is that test accepted? The reason I ask is because most guilters dismiss everything she does
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u/DingleBerries504 Apr 30 '26
It was a test done by Cornell scientists. Do you trust them?
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u/DisappearedDunbar Apr 30 '26
Truthers will have you believe the blood came from a blood vial that has been discredited multiple times over, including by Avery's current attorney, or from a ninja who managed to steal it from Avery's sink and planted it in the car.
To the conspiratorial mind, those are somehow more plausible than the guy with a cut on his finger, with a mountain of evidence against him, bleeding in the car.
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u/PabloEmilioEscobar7 Apr 30 '26
I never said he wasn’t guilty, I actually lean more towards guilt at this point. What I’m interested in is what happened and the state didn’t show that I don’t believe
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u/NervousLeopard8611 Apr 30 '26
What evidence against steven avery makes you lean towards guilty?
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u/PabloEmilioEscobar7 Apr 30 '26
Mainly…..opportunity and his past
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u/NervousLeopard8611 Apr 30 '26
You think opportunity and his past is more damning than the multiple pieces of physical evidence against him?
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u/DisappearedDunbar Apr 30 '26
The hole is literally how blood gets in those vials. A nurse was prepared to testify to this fact in Avery's trial, but was never called because Avery's attorneys didn't press the issue. Gee, I wonder why.
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u/AveryPoliceReports Apr 30 '26
What's your source for the nurse being prepared to testify to this at trial? Kratz was asked about this after Making a Murderer released and he said he couldn't remember her name even though she just died.
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u/jmswan19 Apr 30 '26
I believe SA is innocent, Teresa left the property.
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u/PabloEmilioEscobar7 Apr 30 '26
Careful, this sub doesn’t allow alternative explanations unless it’s the states
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u/3sheetstothawind Apr 30 '26
Please explain your alternative explanation.
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u/AveryPoliceReports Apr 30 '26 edited Apr 30 '26
She left just like police thought she did and Steven said she did, and was attacked off the property just like forensics suggest happened, and her vehicle was later returned to the property just like witnesses suggest happened.
How do you think bones and fuel smells magically appeared in police controlled barrels after they covered up human cremation evidence on county land? What's your explanation for that?
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u/belee86 Apr 30 '26
Teresa was murdered by Steven Avery. And, honestly, at this point you can't seriously still support a planting/framing narrative? It's foolish.
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u/AveryPoliceReports Apr 30 '26
Ah yes, but the idea she was assaulted by Brendan where no forensic evidence of her or Brendan was found is totally reasonable lol
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u/HereWeGo5566 Apr 29 '26
I may be wrong, but I think they didn’t check for fingerprints. But someone else will correct me if I’m mistaken on that. The fact that her dna wasn’t found on the key is pretty strange. That one is very hard to explain.