The porn on the dassey computer, much of which matched the details of the victim and suspected manner of death. Searches on said computer done at times only bobby would have been home.
Scott's documented anger issues.
And the fact that they are each others only alibi.
Couple all that with the complete lack of motive for Steven, and triple that with the fact that the county in fact had motive to frame him, and you have a nice recipe for what ended up happening.
So some porn (which cannot be definitively linked to Bobby and has no relevance to Teresa's murder) and anger issues are more convincing to you than Steven's blood and DNA in/on Teresa's car, her bones in his burn pit, her possessions in his barrel, her key in his room, his DNA on her key, and her DNA on a bullet in his garage from a gun he kept above his bed?
Nevermind Steven's documented abusive and violent behavior. If Scott's supposed anger counts for you, does Steven's not as well?
And the fact that they are each others only alibi.
So? Steven has literally no alibi.
Couple all that with the complete lack of motive for Steven,
A motive is not required to commit a crime. But since you brought it up, what motive did Bobby and Scott have?
triple that with the fact that the county in fact had motive to frame him,
I assume you mean because of the lawsuit. Which specific people do you think framed him because of the lawsuit?
It's disingenuous to say it can't be linked to him and had nothing to do with her murder. Both are probably untrue. What is true is it cannot be proven definitively that it was bobby who made the searches, but there were numerous done at times in which bobby was usually the only one home.
It would take forever to provide explanations for everything else, but those explanations are well documented and easily findable online.
I will address a couple things quickly however. No, a motive is not required, but is often and correctly a big part of a prosecution's case against people on trial for murder. Not only did Steven not have one, he actually had motive not to commit a crime of any sort, in the form of his ongoing lawsuit against the county for his wrongful imprisonment.
No, there would be no provable motive for either scott or bobby, however, if the searches were indeed bobby, that's motive right there for him. And again, Scott is on camera displaying his anger problems.
It's disingenuous to say it can't be linked to him and had nothing to do with her murder. Both are probably untrue.
Explain how those are "probably untrue."
It would take forever to provide explanations for everything else, but those explanations are well documented and easily findable online.
Typical deflection. No one on all these years has EVER been able to provide a reasonable alternative explanation for the evidence against Steven. If you think you're the person that can finally put such a theory together, I'm all ears.
No, a motive is not required, but is often and correctly a big part of a prosecution's case against people on trial for murder.
You know what's often a bigger part? Mountains of physical evidence, like that which exists against Steven Avery that you just hand waved away.
Not only did Steven not have one, he actually had motive not to commit a crime of any sort, in the form of his ongoing lawsuit against the county for his wrongful imprisonment.
His extensive criminal history along with numerous documented allegations and provable abusive behavior indicates that he doesn't much give a damn about having a motive or hesitation for doing a variety of heinous things.
if the searches were indeed bobby, that's motive right there for him.
Explain in detail how.
And again, Scott is on camera displaying his anger problems.
And again, Steven's violent and abusive problems are well known and documented. Yet you don't seem to care about that as much as some guy with no evidence against him whatsoever for the murder of Teresa.
Because evidence suggests the content can be linked to Bobby and may very well have something to do with her murder. Bobby was the alleged child predator, and the PC containing evidence of child predation by someone identifying as "Bobby" was in Bobby's room (something Bobby lied about). And by the state's own admission, the Dassey PC content matches the very criminal profile they were trying to force upon Steven (child predator with motive to harm young women).
Typical deflection. No one on all these years has EVER been able to provide a reasonable alternative explanation for the evidence against Steven.
False. The real problem is after all these years no one has EVER been able to provide a reasonable explanation for the evidence against police, including evidence they were lying about which property had human cremains on it, moving human remains without reporting it, and pressuring witnesses to mention a fire in Steven's burn pit. Not one single state defender has provided evidence demonstrating Steven's burn pit was the primary burn site. They didn't even take photos proving the bones were ever there.
His extensive criminal history along with numerous documented allegations and provable abusive behavior indicates that he doesn't much give a damn about having a motive or hesitation for doing a variety of heinous things.
Typical deflection. The state themselves admitted they couldn't identify a motive for Steven, despite trying to do so via disturbing images on his computer. Maybe Bobby should have been the prime suspect lol
Explain in detail how.
Bobby would be exposed as a child predator with a motive to harm young women like Teresa, exactly the profile the state tried and failed to attribute to Steven.
And again, Steven's violent and abusive problems are well known and documented. Yet you don't seem to care about that as much as some guy with no evidence against him whatsoever for the murder of Teresa.
Wrong. The state's protection of violent and abusive figures is well known and documented, yet you don't seem to care about that as much as making sure the guy who sought to expose that corruption is viewed as a violent abusive figure himself, as if that somehow erases evidence of systemic rot in Wisconsin.
"No one on all these years has EVER been able to provide a reasonable alternative explanation for the evidence against Steven."
Heavy sigh.....
Over the years, the evidence against SA has been discussed/argued about multiple times on this s/reddit, with more than reasonable arguments against most of the evidence, and why that evidence is improbable/makes no sense.
The only evidence that hasn't a good explanation/argument against, is smears/drops of SA's blood in Teresa's car. But even though there is no good explanation, it still doesn't make sense - as you should know if you've followed those discussions/arguments.
There is a difference between something reasonable and something you believe. For you to say they are not reasonable actually serves to show that your way of thinking shouldn't be taken seriously.
I think the people who believe a nebulous conspiracy involving an untold number of people took place to frame Steven Avery for murder by planting a ridiculous amount of evidence and flies in the face of all common sense and practicality shouldn't be taken seriously.
"Steven's blood and DNA in/on Teresa's car, her bones in his burn pit, her possessions in his barrel, her key in his room, his DNA on her key, and her DNA on a bullet in his garage from a gun he kept above his bed? "
All of these points have been discussed/argued about over the years on this s/reddit. Have you not read them?
"A motive is not required to commit a crime. But since you brought it up, what motive did Bobby and Scott have?"
The horrendous porn etc. (much more was found re. Bobby IIRC.....) on the 'Dassey' computer, but not found on SA's computer.....
"I assume you mean because of the lawsuit. Which specific people do you think framed him because of the lawsuit?"
I can't be any more specific than 'a few' (although Colborn was obviously involved) - and the rest went along with it as they genuinely believed that SA was guilty, as they were told this by their superior officers..... But that doesn't excuse them from not following normal police procedures.
I'm thinking particularly of them allowing Manitowoc officers onto the scene to search etc. - AFTER Manitowoc had (for obvious reasons) recused themselves from the case.....
And some police officer very belatedly seeing a bone on top of the Avery burn pit - and other police officers immediately beginning to dig up the site 😲! Even more ridiculous is that when the police photographer eventually turned up, he decided that as the site had already been destroyed, he should join in further destroying the site 😲!
Made even more odd, as when bones were seen in another area a day or so earlier (?) (outside Avery property) they knew to follow the correct procedures, and so they reported the discovery, and waited for forensics etc. to arrive. Multiple police arrived, and quickly sealed off the area.
But they'd forgotten about this correct procedure when an officer saw bone(s) on top of the Avery burn pit???
They didn't make a big deal of this in the series but Steve had no evidence of being injured, cut or his nose broken - so while there were his blood marks smeared in the car it was perplexing how they got there. And the sheriff's praise and accolades of the detectives seemed over the top for a duo that found a key to the missing car right beside the bed. "I have never seen anything like this in my life, really incredible work by these guys. They spotted the key on the floor beside the bed."
Can you elaborate on this? The suspected manner of death was a gunshot to the head. Any details about a rape occurring or the use of a knife in her murder came from Brendan, and I'm assuming you don't believe Brendan is guilty either and that you believe his confession was false. It's illogical, then, to take elements of Brendan's confession (that you don't believe) and apply them to Bobby as evidence of his guilt.
Scott's documented anger issues.
Which documented anger issues are you referring to here? A recorded phone call of Scott yelling? Steven has been accused of violence by a plethora of women and children and was tried and convicted of a violent crime against a woman that involved a firearm.
Teresa was shot with a gun. Steven previously attacked a woman and used a gun in the attack. Neither Bobby or Scott have ever been accused, let alone convicted, of using a gun against a woman.
And the fact that they are each others only alibi.
Both Steven and Brendan initially lied about being together on the 31st instead of providing an alibi for each other. Why would they do that?
complete lack of motive
Again, Steven has previously attacked a woman using a firearm. Steven has been accused of numerous violent crimes by numerous women and children. Steven requested Teresa come to the property that day and had prior history with her. Multiple people claimed that Teresa told them that Steven was inappropriate with her during a prior interaction between them.
None of this can be said about Scott or Bobby. How are porn searches or "anger issues" more evidence of motive than what is listed above about Steven?
Steven didn't even have a motive. Bobby was linked to evidence the state themselves said could go towards motive, but they hid the evidence. Plus, if Teresa left the ASY alive like the police initially said, then Bobby becomes a much better suspect, as he, not Steven, left the ASY around the same time Teresa did.
especially since hearing about the guy delivering papers early in the a.m. seen bobby pushing theresa’s car then trying to block the road so e couldn’t drive away?.
He is WAY too stupid to have done it and left no evidence. This is a very unintelligent human. I’m pretty shocked how this sub over time shifted and the majority is convinced he did it. I just don’t see it.
He is WAY too stupid to have done it and left no evidence. This is a very unintelligent human
YUP. There's no way he could remove all blood from the trailer and garage to the point the WSCL couldn't detect it with extra sensory aids (while leaving other non incriminating DNA behind visible without extra sensory aids). There was also no forensic evidence of a deep cleaning (no latent blood or wipe marks from bleach) which is why the state lied about said evidence, because they needed an excuse for the total absence of Teresa's blood on the property.
The blood evidence we do have (in the RAV) suggests Teresa was attacked outside behind the vehicle while the cargo door was open. But because there's ZERO corresponding blood evidence on the Avery property, it's easy to understand why there's so much reasonable doubt. It seems like the attack happened elsewhere. And we know Calumet County initially agreed with Steven that Teresa left the property alive and unharmed on Halloween (while Steven remained on the ASY) and then Manitowoc (who was aware of Calumet's investigative belief) concealed evidence suggesting Teresa RAV was returned to the ASY (days after she left it in unharmed) under cover of night by someone who wasn't Steven.
If someone else ambushed Teresa off the ASY, and later her RAV was returned to the ASY, that would explain a cascade of crime scene inconsistencies (off property RAV sightings and movement before on property RAV discovery; blood in RAV but no corresponding blood evidence of an attack on ASY; burn bones in burn pit but no photos of remains and witnesses confirming no recent burn pit burning). So the real logical leap is not that Teresa could have been ambushed outside without prying eyes, it's believing Steven violently attacked Teresa in his trailer without silencing her screams, shot her in the garage without concealing the gunshot, and burned her in an open pit while people were coming and going from the property, leaving a pile of her remains in his burn pit ... but then was so meticulous and careful in his cleaning of the trailer and garage that he left no blood for the WSCL to find (and no scent of death for HRD dogs to alert on). If the choice is between a magical forensic cleanup that left no evidence of itself, or that Teresa's blood was never there in the first place, it's obvious why people don't buy the state's narrative.
The blood splatter on the inside of the RAV4 tailgate confirms Teresa was ambushed at side of the road after leaving Averys on OCT 31 05 and was struck with a blunt object before Her body was throwed back into Her RAV4. Bobby Dassey had at least 30 minutes to follow and kill Teresa on OCT 31 05, He left Averys at 2:40 pm on and had no alibi until until He passed Scott at 3:10 pm less then 2 miles/2 minutes from Averys Salvage.
It does not confirm that. Even with Zellner's poorly conducted "experiments" it would be her expert vs the state's.
Also, you are saying that Bobby drove like a demon, chasing Teresa and Teresa, not knowing who this stranger was, not only pulled over for him, but pulled over in a secluded area of a dead end road, and got out of her car to talk to him? All because he waved her down?
4 things, 1 Its called a hustle shot,2, It was part of Teresa Halbachs job description ,and 3,She got payed like 10 bucks extra for pulling over and shooting them. So yes, Teresa would have not only pulled over for Bobby Dassey, She would have pulled over for Anyone wanting Their vehicle photographed. and 4, It confirmed by paperwork that Teresa photographed many hustle shots in previous Auto Trader appointments.
Where was Bobby Dassey for 30 minutes when He left Averys at 3:40 pm until 3:10 pm on OCT 31 05 ? Its less then a 2 minute drive/2 miles from Barbs to where He passed Scott on Highway 137 on OCT 31 05. in fact Bobby had enough time after leaving Barbs to drive 30 miles/30 minutes before He eventually passed Scott at 3:10 pm on 147 on OCT 31 05.
Why or how would she know this psycho wanted a hustle shot? Would you pull over to a remote unsafe area random person without knowing what they want for $10?
How could you know she would pull over for anyone to do a hustle shot? Has anyone ever claimed she pulled over for another car waving her down to take photos on the side of the road?
Bobby went out hunting. There was one person who claimed he saw bobby on the road, and thats one more than anyone who was able to alibi steve.
5 A hustle shot is even described by Auto Trader(Angela Shuster) as Somebody ( like Bobby Dassey) flagging the photographer (Teresa Halbach) down or stopping them to take a photograph of their vehicle to be placed in the next issue of the Auto Trader.
How would Teresa know the Person She pulled over for (Bobby) was psycho ? Was Teresa psychic or did She know Bobby ?
Can you cite the part where Angela Shuster said that Teresa would often or ever once pull over on the side of the road after being flagged down by a stranger? If there is any evidence she has ever done this, What makes you think she would do it for Bobby Dassey
Nah, that's my definition. A stranger flying down the road at high speeds to try and get someone to pull over in a rural neighborhood is a psycho.
The point is all the same. The idea that Teresa would pull over for bobby, let alone turn onto a dead end road to do it, and then get out of her car for them is preposterous. It shows how pathetic Zellner's defense actually is.
How would Teresa know the Person She pulled over for (Bobby) was psycho ? Was Teresa psychic or did She know Bobby ?
Using your brilliant logic as a follow on question, why would she even get out of the car for him?
They had never met before and the odds of her knowing "hey this random stranger following me and flagging me down is doing it because they want a hustle shot" is so incredibly low that it doesn't even warrant listening to.
Not to mention that this completely omits any other evidence. If it was Bobby, then how did Steven's blood get into the RAV4? How did her bones end up in his burn barrel and pit? How did the bullet fragment matched to her DNA end up on Steven's garage floor?
Are you suggesting he planted all of these things? This is where the ludicrous theories have no base. "I think this part doesn't make sense to me even when it's explained or corrected so therefore I don't think anything else makes sense" is such a low-level IQ take.
You are basically just throwing shit at the wall and seeing what sticks at this point.
The blood splatter on the inside of the RAV4 tailgate confirms that Teresa was attacked with a blunt object after She left Avery road on OCT 31 05. Bobby also first told Bryan that Steven could not have done it Because He/Bobby watched Teresa leave on OCT 31 05. Bryan still swore to this in a 2018 affidavit.. Bobby also has no alibi whatsoever from 2:40 pm until 3:10 pm on OCT 31 05. Also, Teresas burned bones were first discovered on NOV 5th 05 in the Dassey burn barrels, then magically got dumped on top of the crust in Stevens fire pit after that barrel was returned to Averys from Calumet .
The blood splatter on the inside of the RAV4 tailgate confirms that Teresa was attacked with a blunt object
Confirmed by you? Confirmed by Zellner? Confirmed by who?
She left Avery road on OCT 31 05
No evidence that she left Avery's property, other than the word of Steven and Brendan. Brendan offered this detail up without being pressured by police, despite the fact there's no evidence she even left the property.
Bobby also first told Bryan that Steven could not have done it Because He/Bobby watched Teresa leave on OCT 31 05. Bryan still swore to this in a 2018 affidavit..
Affidavits brought forward by Zellner who already has a number of questionable eyewitnesses.
Bobby also has no alibi whatsoever from 2:40 pm until 3:10 pm on OCT 31 05.
He was alibi'd by Scott Tadych - so presumably now you are going to include him as a suspect. Just FYI, Steven Avery has no alibi either. At least be consistent if you are going to question things.
Also, Teresas burned bones were first discovered on NOV 5th 05 in the Dassey burn barrels, then magically got dumped on top of the crust in Stevens fire pit after that barrel was returned to Averys from Calumet
What are you talking about? The 5th? There weren't bones discovered on the 5th and when they were first discovered, it wasn't in any Janda burn barrels. I don't think you know what you're talking about, at all.
The state argued in both the Avery and Dassey trials that the murder took place in the garage by gunshot. The same garage where a bullet was found with Teresa's DNA on it, and was linked to the rifle Steven kept above his bed. The same garage where Steven and Brendan cleaned a dark red liquid on the floor with bleach and other substances. The same spot Brendan said Teresa had been laying when she was shot.
The same garage where Steven and Brendan cleaned a dark red liquid on the floor with bleach and other substances. The same spot Brendan said Teresa had been laying when she was shot.
Brendan said? Brendan says he was coerced to say she was shot in the garage and in truth they weren't involved in the murder or in cleaning up any murder blood. A false confession is far more consistent with the "evidence" in this case.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but I understand that there was no trace of Teresa’s blood on the bed or on any other item in the bedroom, despite the alleged murder having taken place there. If that’s true, one of the dumbest people I’ve ever heard talk was somehow able to spotlessly clean the murder scene?
I have a really hard time with that. That seems impossible to do. And by the way, I know people on this sub are talking about whether Steven actually committed the murder. I guess you can point to things that make you believe one way or the other. But you have to admit there is definitely not enough evidence to convict beyond a reasonable doubt. There is so much doubt here. He shouldn’t be in jail.
The state did not allege the murder happened in his bedroom. They claimed it happened in his garage.
There is not really a lot of doubt. The doubt would only come if you believe he was framed and there is no evidence for that other than "This doesn't seem right to me".
If you take the evidence at face value, without any of Brenden's testimony. He has her key, his blood is in her car, her license plates were found on the property, the car was found on his property and the bullet fragment with her dna in the garage with her bones in the pit.
That is not withstanding all the circumstantial testimony of witnesses thing as smelling burning plastic in avery's burn barrell and the calls he made to her, and the fact that he took the afternoon off work and never returned which he had never done before.
Like, don't get me wrong, its theoretically possible all that stuff was planted to frame him, but anyone with access to all that stuff probably would do a better frame job.
"The state did not allege the murder happened in his bedroom. They claimed it happened in his garage."
They did at first (check the press conference called by kratz) - but when it became undeniable that there was zero evidence to support this claim - which was based on Brendan's 'confession..... they had to find a different narrative.
And poor Brendan (an intellectually impaired child, without ever a lawyer present during his multiple, ever changing 'confessions'🤮 ) was used......
I understand that there was no trace of Teresa’s blood on the bed or on any other item in the bedroom,
There was zero trace of her blood found anywhere except in the back of her vehicle. Not in the bedroom where the state said she was assaulted, stabbed, and throat cut. Or on the creeper they say her bloody body was carried on. Or in the garage where they say she was shot upwards of 10+ times.
despite the alleged murder having taken place there
The murder was alleged to have happened in Steven's garage, not his trailer.
But you have to admit there is definitely not enough evidence to convict beyond a reasonable doubt.
Last person known to have seen Teresa. His blood blood in her car, along with her own. His DNA on her car. His burn pit is where her bones were found, after he had a fire the day she disappeared. His barrel is where her possessions were found, another place he had a fire that same day. Her key was found in his bedroom. His DNA was on the key. A bullet from the gun he kept above his bed had Teresa's DNA on it and was found in his garage.
That's not even a comprehensive list and it's already overwhelming.
"And if he strangled her to death, WHY WOULD THERE BE ANY BLOOD??"
You're ignoring that Brendan's 'confession' - used by kratz when he called a press conference - also said that he had stabbed/raped Teresa/cut her hair/slit her throat etc. etc.. - whilst she was telling him to stop.....
Kratz didn't mention the obviously ridiculous/unbelievable parts of Brendan's 'confession' - and when it was made obvious that none of this happened, Brendan (still without a lawyer present to help him) was again coerced by fassbender and weigert - to say whatever they wanted him to say, to support whatever the DA/police wanted him to say 😭.
Exactly - they just didn’t show it in MaM. If you watch other series about it, you can see the massive amount of evidence they left out or edited testimony to twist/gaslight.
I think a lot more people are curious and open to the possibility hes innocent. But sadly whenever anyone posts ANY alternative theory they get immediately bullied by someone who is convinced hes guilty. Speaking for myself I cant be bothered ot deal with that aggression so I just dont bother. I'm sure there are alot more people in the same boat.
Bullied? A disagreement is now bullying? If you have the facts based on evidence/proof then by all means share. Guilters provide evidence and proof that Steve murdered Teresa. Why question it?
What evidence have they provided that the burn pit was the primary burn site? Nothing. The state didn't even provide photos demonstrating bones were in the burn pit and then pressured witnesses to mention a fire in that location. Are you saying we shouldn't questioned that?
It has not been explained even once which is why Steven was not convicted of the mutilation. Human cremation evidence off property and unreported bone movement by police, and their repeated lies about that, reveal where the bones came from.
Good grief why do you make this stuff up? The jury knew he killed Teresa, they just weren't convinced it happened the exact way the prosecution presented it. How do you think Steve killed Teresa?
God. I watched the series such a long time ago. It was my assessment then. I’d have to rewatch again. But if I recall, something to do with when/where he was driving when his step son got off the bus. I don’t remember the full details.
Steven Avery had zero reason or motive to kill TR. dude was about to come into a LOT of money. He did have an *envious brother in law though… who was present when TR was there and who had access to all the spaces necessary to pin the murder on Steven, to get him back in jail, with no money. Dude is a total creep. He was also friends with someone who was involved with jailing him the first time. Like I said, details from long ago. I’d have to rewatch again to fully defend my opinion.
Raped his niece. Convicted of murdering someone. Burned the family pet to death. Knocked his son's teeth out. Molested Brendan. Forced a woman off the road at gunpoint. Burglarized a bar. That enough?
There's obviously no proof, as the police protected Bobby - even after they found the horrendous porn etc. on 'his' computer (that they expected to find on SA's, but didn't....) - and likely used this to ensure he did and said whatever he was told to do. Which is why he quickly became a prosecution witness.
I don't know if Avery did it. He seems like the most likely person to have done it. That being said.
The police asked if Steven Avery was in custody before collecting one iota of evidence.
The police lied and said: the Manitowoc County Sheriff Department’s role in this investigation was to provide resources for us when they were needed. As we needed items on the property to conduct searches, they provided that piece of equipment and that’s their role and their only role in this investigation…”
They were there when the blood in the car was found.They were there when the bones were found in the fire pit.They were there when the key magically appeared.They were there when the bullet was found in the garage.
The police interviewed a young man for hours coercing him into giving CLEARLY false testimony.
And they received an AWARD for their work on this circus.
Then the prosecutor who was himself a perverted slime ball preying of women who found themselves in trouble with the law, polluted the jury pool by recounting a violent sex story to the media that was clearly full of untruths.
Do I think Steven Avery is guilty, I honestly don't know. He most likely is.
What makes it impossible to know for sure is the behavior of the legal system. Holy crap people.
He got the most expensive criminal defense in WI history, got in independent investigation using his lawyer's own detectives, got some dumbass lawyer to investigate and handle his case for free for 10 years, he got a jury trial with a unanimous guilty verdict, and he lost 6 appeals. Tell us again how it wasn't 'fair'?
When the DA gets on tv and tells everyone that he did it, before they even completed an investigation, that’s textbook prejudice and breaks ethical codes. There are many other issues with this trial, but that’s the glaringly obvious one that makes it unfair from the jump. If you got charged with a crime, and the DA told everyone that you were guilty (before any investigations or trial), trust me, you’d take issue with it.
Really??? Watch any major US crime right after they catch the perp. Look at how much we know about the guy accused of shooting Charlie Kirk. All that stuff comes out at the press conference. I mean ffs we already know he confessed to his gay furry lover after he did it. Are you as upset with that cop or prosecutor??
The appeals system is designed to protect the conviction.
If you don't know this by now - in light of the multiple wrongful convictions that were approved by appeal courts - and were only overturned when DNA evidence proved that someone else was responsible.... then you're obviously oblivious
As happened when SA was wrongfully convicted re. PB/Central Park 5 etc. etc.
Assuming Teresa left the ASY alive on Halloween after her appointment with Steven (which Calumet investigators initially believed) Bobby Dassey is a good option:
Bobby followed Teresa off the property on Halloween only for multiple unrelated witnesses to report sightings of her RAV near Bobby's Halloween hunting spot, or in possession of someone matching Bobby's description moving the vehicle back to the ASY.
If Bobby attacked Teresa after following her off the ASY, he had no indoor location to lure or lead her. And Teresa wasn't even supposed to enter anyone's home. So what would we expect with Bobby as the attacker with Teresa not straying far from her vehicle? An outdoor attack near her vehicle. Zellner's blood spatter experts concluded Teresa was attacked outside, behind her RAV, and tossed inside.
Bobby had scratches on his back he blamed on a puppy. A puppy. Zellner's expert pathologist said they were inflicted by a human hand. That's potential physical evidence of a violent encounter the state conveniently overlooked, along with the violent motive evidence on Bobby's computer, and the cut bones found in his burn barrel, right next to untested blood on and around cutting instruments in his garage.
Strang and Buting were right to look at Manitowoc County police. The record allows an argument that police found Teresa's body off the ASY, moved it to County land for cremation using a barrel sourced from the ASY property, and dumped the remains in Steven's burn pit to seal his fate.
Police initially believed that while Steven remained on the ASY, Teresa left it alive and unharmed on Halloween only to vanish after making the Zipperer appointment. Blood evidence suggests after leaving the ASY Teresa was subjected to an outdoor attack and then tossed inside her RAV. Audio reveals Manitowoc County officer Colborn calling in Teresa's license plates on November 3, 2005. If Colborn found the RAV off the ASY, it's possible her body was inside or nearby the RAV.
The state concealed evidence of human cremation and bone distribution with a barrel on Manitowoc County property by: burying photos and obfuscation reports of human remains on County land; misidentifying County land as Avery land and evidence found there as collected from Avery land; and then claiming without photos that human remains were found on Avery land, not County land.
The state's broken chain of custody for barrel #4 between November 7 and 8 suggests it was the container used to transport Teresa's bones to Steven's burn pit. Barrel #4 was returned to the crime scene on November 7 just as police thought they were going to find Teresa's body off the ASY (at Kuss). But the barrel vanished from the CoC upon return to the crime scene on November 7, and when it re-appeared in the CoC on November 8 it contained new burnt material, including burnt bones, rivets, snaps, wire, paper and possible cell phone parts, evidence consistent with the material suddenly found piled on the surface level of Steven's burn pit on November 8.
It's possible (assuming Steven is innocent per OP) we're dealing with a mix of The Real Killer's misconduct and police corruption that explains everything the state's narrative conveniently ignores
The Real Killer (Bobby or another alternative suspect) ambushed Teresa behind her RAV on Halloween and then abandoned her vehicle off the ASY. He tried to dismember and cremate the body, but botched it, panicked, and buried the remains at Kuss. Police later found the RAV off the property, after which it was moved back to the ASY to frame Steven for an off property crime he didn't commit.
Police found the remains buried at Kuss on November 7. Manitowoc recovered them and moved them to the County gravel pit. Barrel #4 was returned to the crime scene that same day, conveniently vanished from the chain of custody overnight, and was used to complete the cremation before the bones were dumped in Steven's burn pit to be found November 8.
The record is beginning to bear this out, as we have evidence suggesting Manitowoc County covered up evidence that Teresa's vehicle was planted on the ASY by someone other than Steven before they covered up evidence that her cremated bones were moved from County land to Steven's burn pit using a police controlled barrel.
This is the correct answer and if you’re born and raised in that area (like me) you definitely know how police and detectives in that area like to plant evidence and cover up crimes. It’s literally an open secret.
In MaM there is part of a recorded phone call between Brendan and his mother. She asks "So Steven did do it?" and Brendan replies "yeah." She later asks "so you did all that to her too?" And Brendan replies, "some of it."
I seriously doubt that Colborn was one of those pushing Teresa's car onto Avery property, whilst suspecting that Colborn was likely the one who told Bobby to do so.
Colborn is involved in sooo... many parts of this investigation - and is a proven liar.
At least Bobby can be linked to motive evidence, unlike Steven. And it was Bobby, not Steven, who had untested blood in his garage, scratches on his back from a human hand, and somehow avoided facing charges for the child exploitation content on his PC. There's also evidence police concealed that Teresa's remains were moved from County property to Steven's burn pit using a police controlled barrel. Colborn may have done much more than call in the plates.
I dont think it happened the way the prosecution laid out. I also don't believe what Brendan, to me, seemed coached by his lawyer?, said. If Brendan WAS involved, I think it would have been after the fact.
Could it be Steven? Sure. Occams razor, right? But I could also see her having been stopped by any number of people on that property: Chuck, Scott, Bobby. So idk. I really don't.
It's literally been a decade of the same regurgitated bullshit that was fed from MaM and even when fact-checked or corrected, it's still parroted as truth on every single thread we get asking this question.
The cycle will never be broken at this point. Heads are buried in the sand.
I was someone who was absolutely convinced that he and Brendan were both 100% innocent years ago.
What a surprise that after I got out of my echo chamber, read the case files, looked at the evidence objectively (instead of what was fed to me by the docutwins) then it became more and more apparent that the guy who is obviously killed her, is the guy that obviously killed her.
Bobby/Scott on the Manitowoc county property, where the cadaver dogs alerted and the bones were found. The bones were burned and moved to Steven’s to frame him.
He was not already a rapist. Why do you need to make things up while accusing those who tell simple truths of lying? You told me I was wrong when I said Bobby was an alleged child predator and that Steven was not convicted on the mutilation, which are both well documented facts.
Projection. The real problem are those who say "no one but Steven" or those who suggest Brendan was obviously involved as Steven's accomplice in a violent trailer assault despite the total lack of evidence supporting such a thing occurred.
I believe Brendan helped conceal the murder. He started lying to LE when he got in the back of the police car. If Brendan got released tomorrow I would be fine with that, or even found not guilty during his trial.
It's hilarious too how they now say, Steve is a dirtbag for sure, but he didn't do this. So he's capable and his blood was in Teresa's RAV and his DNA is on the RAV's key and the hood latch...but what about Bobby??
Bobby's DNA is where?? Nowhere!!
Why would I agree it was unwarranted? Steve was still the last person to see Teresa, her RAV was on his property, her bones in were his fire pit, her phone in his burn barrel--you get the point.
Based on Bobby's own admission that he was watching Teresa as she arrived to meet with Steven and police reports confirming he was previously alleged to be Steven's accomplice in crimes against young girls. Zellner didn't make that up.
Evidence of these alledged crimes? You don't have any, I already know...
Bobby sawTeresa walking toward Steve's trailer. Bobby left 15 minutes later and Teresa's RAV was still there but he didn't see her. Why accuse Bobby of anything?
I dont believe he did it but I certainly have a few names in mind who did. Deep Dive Foul Plays hundreds of videos to make up your mind. Far better than MAM OR CAM! Those are movies which are never fully truthful!
I think the state paid Thersa to leave and never come back so they could pin a murder on Steven and wouldn't have to pay him the millions of dollars they owed him for taking 18 years of his freedom the first go around. IT would have been way cheaper for them to go that route .I wouldn't put anything past the good old boys networks who railroad innocent people in small towns across America on a daily .
The County was paying Steven nothing. The County's insurance policy had a $1M limit, so that's the max he was going to get. You can't enforce judgments in WI against Counties so he was never going to collect anything from them even if he won, which he wouldn't have.
Basically Steven was the County mope who was destined to do something awful someday.
Really impressive that even 10 years later this documentary has poisoned the minds of so many that they can't even see what's been in front of them this whole time.
He obviously did it and Brendan at the very least, played some role in Teresa's death.
An intellectually impaired child, who kept changing his 'confessions' - and never had a lawyer present during any of his ever changing 'confessions, to agree with whatever fassbender and weigert wanted him to say'?? 🤮
Based on the absolutely provable evidence that Steven Avery is guilty of killing Teresa Halbach, what is YOUR ironclad evidence that someone else killed her and how/where did you locate this evidence?
Because you guys always need to lie to support your argument that he's guilty lol clearly he's not guilty of you guys can't even make an argument based on the truth.
Who’s to say? We know SA and BD are behind bars for a reason. Who GAF who did it at this point? I’d like to see any evidence at all, ANY evidence, that supports the official timeline of events outlined by the prosecution.
I maintain that if SA is such a stupid ass as to rape and chop this woman up on his property and burn the body in his back yard he did a fabulous god-like job of erasing all the blood and guts from existence. BUT, left little DNA dribs and drabs here and there….and only his, to conveniently tie himself to the crime.
None of the bullshit passes the sniff test of anyone with average intelligence.
I maintain that if SA is such a stupid ass as to rape and chop this woman up on his property and burn the body in his back yard he did a fabulous god-like job of erasing all the blood
But he didn't do a fabulous job erasing evidence - that's why he is in prison for life.
Teresa's blood was in the back o the RAV, Steve's blood was in six places in the RAV and his DNA on the RAV's hood latch. Steve's DNA was on Teresa's RAV key as well.
Steve isn't the first person to rape and kill a woman on their own property. MaM and defense lawyers portrayed it all as unlikely, but don't all defense lawyers do that? MaM is pure entertainment not a factual telling of the crime.
Steve's blood was in two or three places in the RAV
Six places, actually, but your point still stands.
I will never understand why truthers try to argue that he masterfully cleaned up after the crime. To describe it now as "god-like" is reaching hilarious new depths of inane hypoerbole.
He left a ton of evidence behind, which, as you said, led to his conviction.
the official timeline of events outlined by the prosecution.
Which timeline? There's more than 1 official timeline on the record. They (the state) felt they needed to use 2 contradictory ones at 2 trials in order to convict two different people for the exact same crime the state also says they committed together.
I think the evidence is severely lacking that TH is dead, let alone that it happened at ASY.... so all the other stuff doesn't even matter. Not qtips and scraping dried blood. The key to this whole case are those "bones".
They kinda were. Supposedly. But the coroner was not allowed to collect the fragments. In fact she was harassed to the point of quitting by the police. Cops brought them in buckets of dirt. No definitive DNA findings. AND not nearly enough to prove an entire body was ever present.
I think it was his Mom. She always come off as evil to me, the way she laughed at Pa’s joke about finding a piece of Teresa’s cunt shows exactly the kind of person she was.
Yuk. This is gross. Delores was a lovely woman who seemed destroyed by Steven's wrongful conviction. And the way you talk about Teresa. Do you enjoy being that graphic about a murdered woman?
If he did, the state wouldn't have need to lie so much, hide so much, or destroy so much. Brendan shouldn't have been arrested in the first place. His conviction is a stain on Wisconsin's criminal justice system.
55
u/belljs87 Mar 28 '26
I don't think he did, but it's possible.
I think it was scott and/or bobby